Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

rthomaspaull

Thanks , JH. Even though I have my doubts, I am going with the Robert Parker combined score of 1982-2014 (excluding 5 poor years: actually 2014 was by Neal Martin) and voting for Lynch Bages as a second growth. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

As I still have Canadian citizenship (and my wife was born in Canada), and citizenship in the UK (I was born in London), though the only passport I now have is a U.S. one, am I allowed a vote (or a fraction of one) under JH's recent edict? If so,as I largely agree with Robert Parker's scores, and th...

rthomaspaull

Re the last post: I think the result was much more due to the good luck of having 2 fine vintages in a row in Pessac Leognan and of 2016 being great in all major left bank sub-areas than due to anything I did. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

The moderator here seems to have it in for me, destroying lots of posts without stating a reason (of course my lousy computer "skills" are a problem). To jckba: I am unfamiliar with Lynch Bages as its price generally seems too high for its likely score. Of the others, if prices were equal ...

rthomaspaull

To JH: Many thanks (I think the 2010 Cantemerle will likely improve a bit longer: we have drunk nearly all our 2006). I really love this website. Though I don't buy futures your suggestion seems to have a great QPR. It is quite likely, from what I have read, that I would gve it about a 91. I realize...

rthomaspaull

Robert Parker would remove Gruaud -Larose from the list (I wouldn't). Combining Grundeken at equal weights with my 2014 (excluding 2013) study, the following in descending order qualify as 2nd growths (LLC is counted as a first growth): Cos D'Estournel, Montrose, Ducru Beaucaillou, Palmer & Pape...

rthomaspaull

To OrlandoRobert: Thanks, but I do not think I will buy any Bordeaux after the 2016s. I think the wines are made now in such a way that they can be drunk earlier with pleasure, more than previously, and I keep the wines slightly warmer now. Years ago I drank mostly Burgundy and Rhones, but since I s...

rthomaspaull

I bought 2009 and 2010 left bank red Bordeaux wines mainly for a good quality -price relationship (these wines are very enjoyable) but found this ratio less good when I tried some more expensive wines. As a result around 2018 I realized that my wife and I had no wines that I considered of even very ...

rthomaspaull

Combining at equal weights Grundeken and my 2002-14 (excl. 2013 study) , essentially with Robert Parker scores, gives in descending order Cos D'Estournel, Montrose and Ducru-Beaucaillou, closely followed by Palmer (& Pape Clement), Lynch Bages and Pichon Lalande [this list is not too out of line...

rthomaspaull

I hope nobody will be horrified, but fairly often I score left bank red Bordeaux fairly near Robert Parker's score (we both gave the 2010 Cantemerle, which has a style I really like, and which can be noticeably better on the 2nd night, a 94.5 .) I have had very few of the wines and years in Grundeke...

rthomaspaull

In the rather unlikely event that someone is wondering why I use my 2002-14 (excl. 2013) rather than my study of 2002-16 (excl. 2013) to combine with Grundeken, the reason is that the one ending in 2016 has far more ratings that are not by Robert Parker. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

Lynch Bages (not in our "collection" as it is normally too expensive) qualifies as a second growth under Grundeken, under my 2002-2014 (excl. 2013) study, and of course under the two combined at equal weights. The total period covered is 1982-2014 (excl. 5 poor years), and virtually all th...

rthomaspaull

This might annoy some, I fear, but the study of 2002-2014 (excluding 2013) left bank red Bordeaux shows quite a few "2nd growths" with GPL (average score 91.1, minimum requirement 91.0) just barely making it. Combining it with Grundeken it makes it with the minimum requiement of 90.5 . I p...

rthomaspaull

The worst red wine I ever had was a La Tour Carnet. I do not think it was a 2010 (maybe a 2012). Though it came from a reputable source, and was treated no differently than our other wines, it had an enormous amount of mud-liike sediment. The actual wine was unpleasant and was discarded. The bottle ...

rthomaspaull

I don't usually feel like an idiot, but to some extent I do now (at least the results of my simpler system might well be identical). Having chosen a left bank red Bordeaux to buy based on the score I give it and the price, I sometimes want to evaluate it by "classification " for its year. ...

rthomaspaull

The moderator continues to frustrate me. I know my computer"skill" are lousy, but normally it is pretty easy for me to make posts here and elsewhere. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

what is this full editor and review followed by not allowing a post ?????? rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

The first sentence of my reply to Chris F. on 3/6/21 at 5:08 pm was inadvertently somewhat misleading. I determine the maximum I would pay for a given wine based only on my taste buds. The rest of my "system" is just to "classify" wines after I have bought them (if I feel like bo...

rthomaspaull

Many thanks, Nicklasss for the kind words. THe top 6-10 of the 1855 classification, after the first growths, would appear to be in descending order: LLC, Cos D'Estournel, Montrose, Ducru Beaucaillou and Palmer. I like that list, but I am sure there will be other valid answers. Lynch Bages,just ahead...

rthomaspaull

The moderator or whatever on this website gives me an enormous amount of trouble, for a reason unknown to me. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

Further to my preceding message' there were quite a few chateaux that did not make it as second growths under Grundeken but which qualified over the combined period (minimum average needed 90.5, 2.5 less than the 93.0 needed for "first growths"). In descending order they are: Palmer and Pa...

rthomaspaull

I did a study covering many left bank red Bordeaux wines from 2002-14 (excluding the poor year 2013: all ratings were from bottle, and through 2012 were by Robert Parker and for 2014 by Neal Martin). As the average Wine Advocate Vintage Rating was a rounded 92 for Pauillac etc. rather than the 90 ro...

rthomaspaull

My "system" for "classifying" left bank red Bordeaux wines of a particular year has the drawback of making an assumption about the likely average rating of the top 2 scorers in an area. I can think of 2 other methods but each has the drawback of relying on relative prices of a ye...

rthomaspaull

To the members of BWE: I would just like to say how much I appreciate the politeness and great perception of the members here. I have had a rough time on a website with (very possibly fittingly) Berserkers in its name, and I really appreciate this website and its members. Many thanks, rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

Re Robert Parker: I know many disagree with him a lot but he was very influential. I sometimes disagree with him but the wines we have both tasted (a tiny fraction of those he has tasted) are remarkably close on average. To his credit he liked the 2010 Cantemerle (my wife and I have a lot of it). I ...

rthomaspaull

I did a study for the relatively short period 2002-2014 (excluding 2013), with all ratings from bottle and all by Robert Parker except 2014 by Neal Martin.The average Wine Advocate Rating fo the period for Pauillac etc. was a rounded 92. (100 +92=192. 192/2 = 96, the same as the average for the top ...

rthomaspaull

The chateaux in my last post were essentially chosen by Robert Parker. Though I sometimes disagreed with him, the average scores for wines that we both tasted (a really tiny fraction of what he tasted), were remarkably close. I know many disagree with him, but he was certainly very influential. All ...

rthomaspaull

The top 5 after the first growths still seem to be (in a slightly different descending order, combining Grundeken at equal weights with my later study, LLC, Cos D'Estournel, Ducru Beaucaillou, Montrose and Pichon Lalande. I twice tried to make a longer post on this subject but for some weird unstate...

rthomaspaull

Apologies to eveyone: I seem to have miscalculated , or perhaps there have been revised scores for wines, or perhaps both, but as of 8-28-2020 here is a llist in descending order of those that qualify for 2004-2016 (excluding 2013, as previously) as "first growths" in all sub-areas: Haut B...

rthomaspaull

I did a study for 2002-2014 (excluding 2013; bottle ratings only): through 2012 by Robert Parker and for 2014 by Neal Martin, covering many left bank red Bordeaux form 2002-2014 (excluding 2013). Combining this with "Grundeken" I only came up with 2 wines from the 1855 classification as be...

rthomaspaull

To Comte Flaneur: I think there is a lot to be said for your reclassification of left bank red Bordeaux, Receently under the StBlGT's 1855 classification thread I posted what is essentially a summary of Robert Parker's average scores for the leaders among such wines from 1982-2003 (excluding 4 poor ...

rthomaspaull

To all: please say if vou can improve on the 5 choices for long-term (1982-2016 excluding 5 poor years) for best non-first growth Bordeauc classified in 1855. Essentially they were chosen by Robert Parker. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

To Claudius 2: Palmer and Pontet Canet did relatively badly in "Grundeken", so they both miss the top 5. I realize I have used 3 tasters (2 only recently) instead of 1, but their scores for wines 2 or 3 of them rate are usually very similar. Over a long period I think the resulting "t...

rthomaspaull

Looking back to the original question, combining with equal weights "Grundeken" and my more recent results, for the top 5 "non-first growths" of 1855 classification Bordeaux one would appear to get in descending order LLC, Ducru-Beaucaillou, Montrose, Cos D'Estournel and Pichon L...

rthomaspaull

I love Musigny's witticism. For a longer term view, for which there is something to be said for using scores (though I rate wines in practice only by tasting them) one could combine my results above with what I call "Grundeken" {because I think grundeken was part of its short-lived interne...

rthomaspaull

To Claudius 2: Thanks for your message. I still do not have access to my source material, which is only about left bank red Bordeaux, so had to look up scores on the internet. It did not take long due to the limited time frame, but I do not plan to repeat it for other wines. Regards, rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

To Orlando Robert: I consider your criticism valid, but "chacun a son gout". My wife and I only buy in quantity wines we really lke. I quite often concur with the critics I mentioned, especially Antonio Galloni. I can see how some wines technically merit a high score though they are not to...

rthomaspaull

Re the original question, for the 5 best chateaux of the non-firsts, my admittedly recent evaluation would seem to point to Pontet Canet, LLC, Ducru Beaucaillou, Montrose and Palmer (just ahead of Cos D'Estournel ). My earlier guesses were none too good. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

I do realize nobody may be interested, but in case someone other than me is I am giving the results of my recently mentioned "survey" {2004 trhrough 2016 excluding 2013, scores through 2012 by Robert Parker, 2014 by Neal Martin & 2015-6 by an average of Neal Martin and Antonio Galloni)...

rthomaspaull

I think (but am not sure) I would drop Ducru Beaucaillou while keeping Montrose and LLC. rthomaspaull

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