Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

rthomaspaull

2010 Haut Bergey. More or less by chance I have had it twice in a row. It used to be tied for my lowest scoring Bordeaux and for its year my only "5th growth", but both times I had it I gave it 91 at least, so it is now promoted to a "4th growth." There are few bottles left (ther...

rthomaspaull

I thought I would try to explain the logic for my system. I wanted to find which category (if any) I should consider appropriate for a left bank red Bordeaux and so I needed a range of scores for each growth classification. This was not at all easy and I took a great deal of time and found very few ...

rthomaspaull

I have had the 1982 Pichon Lalande but it was from bottles with red stains on the labels. I took a chance on them at just over $10 a bottle! My wife and I found all the wine delicious, but I only gave it about 95 rather than 100, so there may have been slight damage. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

I think I would choose currently Cos D'Estournel before Pichon Lalande, and Pontet Canet before Pichon Baron. I do not think I would drop LLC but I am not sure what to drop instead. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

If the Wine Spectator Vintage rating of 96 for 2018 left bank red Bordeaux applies to all 3 sub-areas eventually for the Wine Advocate Vintage Ratings, for Margaux only the best 3-year run would narrowly become 2016-18, I think. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

To Chris: I do not usually buy GPL, but bought it along with several other classified 2012s because the prices seemed so reasonable. In general they have performed well, especially some from Margaux. I bought the 2016 GPL after trying one bottle and really liking it (Antonio Galloni, the critic on w...

rthomaspaull

To Claudius 2: I agree with much of what you say. It is the "first growths" that I consider way overpriced. Many red Bordeaux outside the "trophy wines" do seem reasonably priced and I buy some of them. GPL is usually just within my limit: I only have the 2012 and the 2016. Obvio...

rthomaspaull

To the recent posters: Many thanks for your interesting observations. (I was born in 1934, so I am much older than Claudius 2). It is many years since I bought a first growth red Bordeaux, as I consider them way over-priced. Refusing to pay more than $170.00 for any left bank red Bordeaux pretty muc...

rthomaspaull

I recently paid just under $100 a bottle (with taxes but no shipping charge) for a case of a wine I consider of very low first growth quality in a fine year (the 2016 GPL. to which I gave a 96 score). With this purchase and a small amount of judicious drinking of my lowest-scoring wines (90.5 from m...

rthomaspaull

Leoville Barton (but I usually like Pontet Canet) and Carbonnieux Blanc the last time I tried it.
rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

To Claudius2 re 1982 LLC: Robert Parker wrote (to paraphrase him) that wine scores can vary up to about 4 points depending on one's mood, and I was certainly in a good one that evening. Yet I sipped my wine over a fairly long time and totally enjoyed it. I envy you for the many great wines you have ...

rthomaspaull

I really must be more careful about my mathematics. The best value wine I ever had (by a wide margin) came in the mid-1950s on the Costa Brava in a goatskin. I worked out the equivalent price per bottle as about 2.5 cents U.S., so the price per point was about 0 .03 cents (the wine was certainly not...

rthomaspaull

Does an X symbol always show up beside the latest post on a subject?

rthomaspaull

Further to my last post, if someone had read my post of Thu Mar 4, 2021 at 1:31 pm carefully (not the easiest thing to do, I must admit) they would have noticed that I said "wines with higher ratings became more and more disproportionately out of line as the wine ratings rose....." i certa...

rthomaspaull

I think the tannins in Leo B demand a lot of patience, probably more than I have at my age, except for old and over-priced vintages. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

I wonder if anyone is interested in a recent (2004-2016 excluding 2013) evaluation of which left bank red Bordeaux wines deseve first growth status. Ratings through 2012 were those of Robert Parker, for 2014 those of Neal Martin, and for 2015-2016 those of an average of Neal Martin and Antonio Gallo...

rthomaspaull

Years ago the best value wine I ever had was about 3 cents a point. My most expensive recent purchase was about $1.03 per point. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

deleted as redundant (I am really bad with computers). rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

Oddly enough the only red wine I ever gave 100 was the 1982 LLC (enjoyed with family on the last day of 1999). rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

deleted as redundant(unfortunately this happens a lot). rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

I have made postings about "sensible pricing of left bank red Bordeaux" and "modern classification of left bank red Bordeaux". I would pay $170 now for such a wine that I gave 100 points (This only happened once, years ago for under $35: good luck finding one for $170 now), while...

rthomaspaull

I have usually enjoyed Morgon and Moulin -a-Vent, as well as Brouilly and Cote de Brouilly, and sometimes Fleurie,Julienas and Chenas; even Beaujolais-Villages from Drouhin or Jadot can be enjoyable for a reasonable price. Of course the yeqr matters. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

The following are certainly not left bank red Bordeaux, but lately I have been enjoying a reasonably priced Morgon Cote de Py, and my wife and I have had some 2018 Sancerres and similar Sauvignon Blancs. as well as low-priced but very enjoyable Chards with little or no oak. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

As happens not infrequently, I am revising part of my opinion.
Going by the Wine Advocate Vintage Ratings, I now say 2008-10 instead of 2014-16 for left bank red Bordeaux.
For that area I stick by 2014-18 for 5 years. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

To JimHow and Chris F. : I wonder who first said: "Never assume: it makes an ass out of u and me."

rthomaspaull

As far as I am concerned, no.

rthomaspaull

To Chris F.: Many thanks for the info. 2016 GPL seems very popular with many wine critics, but "chacun a son gout". rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

To JimHow: I assume that the non-excellent choice is the 2015 Malartic Lagraviere, but I find I have been liking it more and more. Believe it or not, it now qualifies under my "system" as the lowest possible "first growth quality" in a fine year (Wine Advocate Vintage Rating 96 f...

rthomaspaull

I don't remember having the 1981 Cos D'Estournel, but greatly enjoyed several bottles of the 1985 (as did others).

rthomaspaull

2015 Malartic Lagraviere Rouge (95.5 from me), 2015 Grand-Puy Lacoste (96), 2015 Domaine de Chevalier Rouge (96) and 2016 Domaine de Chevalier Rouge (96.5). rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

Sometimes you just luck out. In the late 1980s in a rather unimpressive wine store in Yuma, AZ, I observed several bottles of 1982 Pichon Lalande with lots of red on the labels. However the price was so low (just over $10 a bottle!) that I decided to take a chance and drove them about 360 miles home...

rthomaspaull

Giving more thought to the named subject, I think it is of considerably less importance than "Sensible Pricing" for similar wines, though I believe the Wine Advocate Vintage Rating is more all-encompassing and probably less biased than the wine rating scores of anyone. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

I will give an example of the lowest rated left bank red Bordeaux wine to qualify as of first growth quality in a fine year. The lowest Wine Advocate Vintage Rating for a fine year is 96. 196/2 = 98. 98-2.5=95.5, the lowest possible rating for first growth quality in such a year. I initially gave th...

rthomaspaull

i think the left bank reds (especially Pessac-Leognan) did very well from 2014-2016. I have not tasted any 2017 or later Bordeaux. rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

You have been given many good answers, but going by the Wine Advocate Vintage Ratings, if 2018 gets rated close to the Wine Spectator's 96, I would say
2014-2016 and 2014-2018 for the left bank reds (particularly Pauillac etc. and Pessac-Leognan). rthomaspaull

rthomaspaull

To Chris F. :Yes, for me simply to find the highest price I would pay to order such wines. I have not had either of the 2 wines you mention from 2014, but looking at the Neal Martin and particularly the Antonio Galloni scores for them on the Farr Vintners website, I would think that your (or CT's) s...

rthomaspaull

To marcs and stefan: I do not assume that the price-quality relationship {(f/y)} stays constant. The problem at the high end is that it does not: things seem way out of line at the high end. I do assume that the price-quality relationship was much better years ago, with something like a "value-...

rthomaspaull

The calculations are just a rough guide. I go by my own taste buds, but price is also a consideration for most of us.
I think it was an Italian professor of oenology who said something like "There are three types of wine: good, bad, would drink it if someone else paid for it."

rthomaspaull

The average Wine Advocate Vintage Rating (W.A.V.R.) for the Grundeken period (!982 to 2003 excluding 4 poor years, with 2002-3 barrel ratings for Pauillac etc, was a rounded 90, and the average W.A.V.R. for 2002-2014 (excluding 2013) (all botth=le ratings) was a rounded 92. 92 -90 =2, half of which ...

rthomaspaull

My system is very simple and easy to use. All that is needed is the wine's score (preferably by oneself if one has a decent palate) and the year's Wine Advocate Vintage Rating (W.A.V.R.). No doubt valid objections could be made to the method, but it should be reasonably accurate in the long run. For...

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