Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

Dionysus

I haven't tasted enough of either to take a definitive view, and certainly we've to wait for these to evolve in bottle, but I'm convinced that 2016 will be the next 1982. Interesting take here on the 2016's in a recent Quintus vs Stars of Saint Emilion blind tasting, which reinforces the above poin...

Dionysus

At EP prices, LB is a no-brainer, but so were almost of the 2019 releases. There's still a little bit of juice left @ $150, but clearly not the bargain it once was. I think 19 LB will be one of the better vintages, if not the best, since the turn of the century, but I suspect will fall short of the ...

Dionysus

Interestingly, if you remove the above 6 wines, the average 2020 release price for the 3rd G's is €47, €45 for the 4th, and €44 for the 5th. So indeed, much of a muchness.

Dionysus

You can definitely argue that being classified a first growth and to some extent a second has some impact, but there is no difference between third and fourth (or fifth). Hmmm...I think most people would know if they had to pay €300 for a Palmer vs €40 for La Lague. If you strip out Palmer & Ca...

Dionysus

A tie between Léoville Barton and Rauzan Ségla it seems...good choices I think.
Montrose is third, but definitely seeing some price increases of late.

Dionysus

From my late experience with the 1976, and all the mixed vintages i tried, i guess La Lagune has that good mix of complexity, ageability, claret style, and price, that make it the real QPR of the 3rd growth. Think about it: it is 3 times less expensive than Calon Segur, 8 times less expensive than ...

Dionysus

It is a little unfair to judge Giscours on the 2012, which was more miss than hit in Margaux. It took a while to turn round the estate from years of neglect, but I think they have succeeded, and Giscours is a pretty good value in the $60-70 range. You should try the 2010. It wasn't just 2012, but i...

Dionysus

Re LLC, I'll purchase 2021 in 5 years time when prices drop. Why do you believe LLC prices will drop? I do believe large stocks are being held back, and maybe prices stay flattish in inflation adjusted terms, but hard to see the chateau actually marking their own inventory down, given how much econ...

Dionysus

I can easily see the argument for both Talbot and Lafon Rochet. I do have a soft spot for St Estèphe's in general...I think the market under values this appellation more than most. Beychevelle is priced as if 2nd Growth already, a 3rd Growth at least, so while a very good wine, not sure if it offers...

Dionysus

In your other thread you said LLC is good QPR as a second growth despite its cost because it's as good as a first growth. By that logic in my book Palmer would be great QPR as a third growth because it's second growth quality. Super-second, even... :twisted: I like Giscours more than you but agree ...

Dionysus

Tough one. My vote would go for D’Issan. In the Aquitaine Papers I downgraded Langoa to a fourth, but I think it is borderline between third and fourth. I think Palmer is quite fairly priced given the quality. I regret not buying the 2019 at the bargain basement price of £999/6. Damn, some miss. I ...

Dionysus

I haven't tasted enough of either to take a definitive view, and certainly we've to wait for these to evolve in bottle, but I'm convinced that 2016 will be the next 1982.

Dionysus

Interestingly alcohol levels in 2020 are on average 1% less, but some commentators have mentioned they lack acidity (i.e. pushing beyond 3.65); acidity levels in 2019 are closer to 3.55. Re LLC, I'll purchase 2021 in 5 years time when prices drop. This vintage overall should be drinking a lot earlie...

Dionysus

Jim Yeah been to a few 2019 tastings and they are definitely the real deal. Only worry is the alcohol level in some right bank wines. Huge fan of 2019...it was my first real EP vintage and went big. Still picking up a few here and there when I see tempting prices, most recently Branaire Ducru @ €50...

Dionysus

4th Growth Best QPR: Saint Pierre. this unassuming 4th Growth has for several years been consistently releasing beautiful wines which are more akin to high 3rd Growth properties – indeed critic rating of vintages over the past number of years may even push it close to the top of the 3rd Growth pile....

Dionysus

3rd Growth Best QPR: Langoa-Barton. Stablemate to its more illustrious brother, Langoa-Barton is one that offers terrific value for money costing roughly half as much as Léoville Barton. This estate is classical St Julien, fully expressing the terrior. Most recently I tried the 2008 blind and pegged...

Dionysus

2nd Growth Best QPR: Montrose. The Bouygues brothers have invested significantly in this estate since taking control in 2006, and are arguably now producing the best wines ever to leave this property. Even before this investment, Montrose had stunning successes in 89, 90, 00, 03 arguably (one of the...

Dionysus

I'll start us off. A note on the 1st growths; a tricky one to begin with, as one could easily make a strong argument that none offer a decent QPR, given the lofty prices. In saying that, all five are simply stunning wines, often perfection in a glass. Perhaps unsurprisingly, of all the growth catego...

Dionysus

Interesting in the forum’s thoughts on this subject matter…as the thread title suggest, which RED wines, in your opinion, represents the best and worst value for money amongst each of the 1855 classified growths. And why. For me, there are a small, select, number of Chateau’s that seemingly punch ab...

Dionysus

Still chasing the 2019 when I see value.

1 * GPL
2 * Haut Bailly
3 * Branaire Ducru

Dionysus

Really enjoyed reading your take on 2021 Izak, a great body of work. I was expecting more critical TNs and scores for some reason, but the analysis is very fair and balanced. Definitely a vintage I think I would enjoy, and will buy at some point in the future, just not now. Calon and LCHB are the tw...

Dionysus

Thanks for the great notes Mark, appreciated. It appears that 19 is delivering on it's early promise...most commentary is very positive thus far. Re 18 & 20, would definitely act somewhat cautiously when it comes to ABV but many estates did manage to manage it appropriately. St Estèphe always te...

Dionysus

Received everything already I think...VCC, DDC, Troplong, Calon, Alter Ego, Rauzan Segla, Lafite, Montrose, Brane Cantenac, Cantenac Brown, and Clerc Milon. Deliveries in Europe must be so much quicker then elsewhere.

Dionysus

Ambrose wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:37 am Surely the classification has past its use by date anyway? In the internet era when anyone with a smart phone can instantly access so much information. Hardly seems worth the effort they go through.

Yes it is, just like the 1855 classification.

Dionysus

And BTW, I'm convinced that the 2021s will be loved by many on this forum in years to come, akin to the 2014 vintage today. But the time to strike is in 5/6 years time when the market will be entirely in our favour.

Dionysus

Mark, I know your against buying any 2021 en-primeur...would this advice extend to smaller properties where supply may not be as plentiful when released into the market in two years time? So there is no rush; there are no lines forming. You will have the chance to taste the wines yourself when they...

Dionysus

Ya it had a poor spell right through the 90's, and well into the noughties...but if it was going to be demoted, I'd argue it should have happened in 2012, after 2/3 decades of chronic mismanagement / underachievement. Not now when they've clearly being moving in the right direction. And yes, pricing...

Dionysus

Anyone succumb to their FOMO urgings?? Les Carmes Haut-Brion slightly piquing my interest...appears to be almost universally well reviewed: falstaff (95), Vinous NM (93-95), JR (17++), Vinous AG (96-98), RP WK (94-97), B&D (95-96), JL (94-96). Don't see any rating from Izak, so presumably not ta...

Dionysus

La Gaffelière the latest to leave the classification. Interesting article on thedrinksbusiness exploring their departure: https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2022/06/why-is-chateau-la-gaffeliere-leaving-the-st-emilion-classification/ Is this classification doomed for failure? In one sense, this is aki...

Dionysus

Thanks Mark, David. I'm not inclined to disagree with the advice given. Might keep one or two bottles in the name of science, but looks like I have a case or two of high(ish)-octane wines to get through over the next little while. Much are 4/5 years old, so will try to consume within the next year o...

Dionysus

Bit of thread drift here, but are there any wine regions or wines styles which can carry high ABV quite well? Port is a obvious example I guess, at roughly 20%, and gets immeasurably better with age. I'd argue that Amarone della Valpolicella is another, but both of these would fall into the sweet ca...

Dionysus

Hope to be in Bordeaux in early Sept for the Rugby WC.
But a quick flight for me, so can make it there most time of the year. So count me in.

Dionysus

I think the vintage and pricing needs to be separated. Spending power except for a lucky few is finite, and the wine lover needs to make choices. The 2021 follows an unprecedented run of great vintages going back to 2014. Not a single clunker, and plenty of wine available. So inevitably when faced ...

Dionysus

1. Montrose
2. VCC
3. LLC

Dionysus

David, my wallet hates you. Why oh why did you have to repost on the "2019 Bordeaux + Beaujolais + coming Bx trip" thread?!? Even though 2019 is without doubt the largest single vintage in my cellar (or will be upon en primeur deliveries), I've found myself going back in for more. 2 * Bran...

Dionysus

Chateau Montrose

Dionysus

Yields look alright in the best parts of the Medoc. https://janeanson.com/en-primeur-2021-yields Appears to the case. Saint-Estèphe and satellites further north have done ok it seems. An early report here by Panos - https://cluboenologique.com/story/2021-bordeaux-en-primeur/ Unless pricing drops ba...

Dionysus

There is no difference except that its put in a bottle that lights up and glows in the dark. And it seems Mark was in need of some for his next disco night soirée ;) Ah shucks, disappointed now with my "non-luminous" bottle!!! :lol: :lol: At $189 it's a Buy all day long, but at the full p...

Dionysus

What's the difference between the standard DP and the Luminous edition? Forgive my ignorance.

On a side note, merchants are starting to deliver 2019 en primeur orders over here.
One already arrived (VCC), and a few more arriving next week.

Dionysus

Picked up a bottle if DomP 2012 in Duty Free for $160 - one positive from Brexit.

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