Can anyone tell me about these 2007 white Burgs?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:39 pm

2007 Domaine Vincent Girardin Premier Cru Santenay Clos de Tavannes
2007 Vincent Girardin Premier Cru Chassange-Montrachet La Romanee
2007 Domaine Vincent Girardin Premier Cru Chassange-Montrachet Les Chaumees
2007 Vincent Girardin Chassange-Montrachet Vieilles Vignes
2007 Albert Bichot Domaine du Pavillon Corton-Charlemagne Grand Cru
2007 Olivier Leflaive Chassange-Montrachet 1er Cru Abbaye de Morgeot
2007 Vincent Girardin Rully Vieilles Vignes
2007 Vincent Girardin Puligny-Montrachet Vieilles Vignes
2007 Olivier Leflaive Meursault 1er Cru Charmes

Also:

2004 Alsace Jubilee Hugel Gewurtztraminer "Hugel"

Thanks.

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:14 pm

Jim,

The only one of these that I have tasted is the Girardin Rully VV. I found it to be a very nice wine for a reasonable price. To me it had some character and complexity that you normally would not find in an under $30 wine. I have actually heard of Rully wines referred to as "the poor man's Mersault." I do not see it as a wine to age long term; I would enjoy it over the next 2-4 years. I have had a few bottles of the 2005 version of Girardin's Puligny VV, and it was quite good. But I do not know if that would translate to the 2007.

Beyond that one wine, in general, I have found Girardin's whites to be of pretty good quality at a reasonable price relative to some of the other major producer.

Jon

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:10 am

>>
Beyond that one wine, in general, I have found Girardin's whites to be of pretty good quality at a reasonable price relative to some of the other major producer.
>>

What Jon said.

jal · Post by **jal** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:40 am

I also like Girardin, and the wines you're asking about will probably be very good. Also, 2007 is a great year in White Burgundy, but if you're hoping to recreate the 1997 Niellon Champgains' experience with these wines, you'll probably be disappointed. Go with Niellon or Ramonet in Chassagne, Domaine Leflaive (not Olivier) or Paul Pernot in Puligny.

Chasse-Spleen · Post by **Chasse-Spleen** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:47 am

Gettin' into the devil's backyard here I see...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:15 pm

Thanks for the assistance, does anyone know what the BH says about these wines? Thanks.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:54 pm

Is 2004 a good vintage for Alsace?

Chasse-Spleen · Post by **Chasse-Spleen** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:30 pm

why is the date on this thread so recent? I thought it was around a month old.

-Chasse

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:43 pm

I saw them this weekend in NH, I'll probably buy one bottle of each....

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:57 pm

Jim,

I did a really quick look at the BH database for the Girardin whites. I think that most of the ones you listed were rated in the low 90s. So if the prices are reasonable, they are probably worth buying.

Jon

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:44 pm

Thanks Jon, i'll get some of these into my cellar.

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:09 am

Not tired the Olivier Leflaive wines from 07 but this is a long way in quality from Domaine Leflaive.
Only buy if you either like their style or have tried them.
I generally find them to be rather characterless.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:11 am

Yeah, I had a couple half bottles of their 2005 and they were pretty weak.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:41 am

Can anyone educate me a bit on Corton Charlemagne, the wines of several producers are available in NH, judging from the prices I take it these are coveted vineyards?

jal · Post by **jal** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:15 pm

JimHow wrote:Can anyone educate me a bit on Corton Charlemagne, the wines of several producers are available in NH, judging from the prices I take it these are coveted vineyards?

It is the most affordable of the Grand Crus, still expensive, though. The best examples are rich and nutty with a good structure. Bonneau du Martray produces probably the best Corton Charlemagne, followed by Jadot and Bouchard. I don't think I've had other producers. A high percentage of he 1999 Bonneau du Martray Corton Charlemagne suffered from premature oxidation. I would only buy recent vintages and drink them early.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:04 pm

Thanks Jacques, the NH system has the 2007 Corton Charlemagne from the following producers at the following prices:

Dom Pavilln $111
Girardin $127
Pierre Andre $130

Not in stock but probably on their way:

Latour $90
Jadot $113

These wines seem pricey to me, are they out of line with normal white Burg pricing?
It might be good to have a bottle or two in the cellar for special occasions.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:40 pm

Too expensive for Corton Charlie, Jim. Wait for sales.

Because of the premox problem, you need to have two or three of any white Burg that you intend to cellar for any length of time to be reasonably sure that you end up with one that is drinkable. I see little evidence that the 1/3 failure rate for ten+ year old white Burgundies is going down. My approach now is to buy few, and only when discounted, and drink them young. I have had premox problems with virtually every vintage 1995-2004 and have read about problems even with 2006s.

stefan

Claudius · Post by **Claudius** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:55 am

Guys,
I think that there are a range of styles in CC, from the full and nutty like Martray, Jadot and Coche Drury, down to lighter and zipper wines such as Chandon Brialles and Rapet.

A few worth seeking out are:

Remoissenet - BIG improvement here in recent years, woalk the fine line between power with mineral cut, acid, nuts, citrus and toast.
Tollot Beaut - under-rated; bigger style with lots of mouthfeel. Note for long keeping though.
Genot Boulanger - again not for long keeping but still very good. Can be a bit variable
Rapet - again, recent improvements, a lighter style with minerality and acid.

I'd avoid Chandon Brialles and Colin Lequin and most of the negociants.

Hugh Johnston describes CC as the GC Chablis of the Cote D'or and I think this is only true in a minority of cases.
CC ages brilliantly and to me is a better buy than the Montrachet related GCs.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:01 pm

Man that sounds every so subtly like an enablement from you Claudius.
I think I'm gonna buy a bottle or two to keep in the cellar for some future occasion when BWEers come to the Maine coast....

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:37 pm

What are some of the BWEers favorite names in white Burgs?

I realize there is a premox controversy but I'm not really planning on buying any major quantities, so I'm not too worried about it.

Before I went on my wine fast I drank a 2005 Ramonet Chassange Montrachet 1er Cru Les Caillerets that really hit the spot for me.

Besides Ramonet and Jadot, I had a Niellon that Rob Dayton brought to my house that I really liked. I also hear the name Raveneau a lot.

Again, putting aside the premox issue for a moment, what are some of the favorite producers out there?

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:39 pm

Ramonet for Chassagne.

Louis Michel for Chablis.

Jadot domaine for classically styled wines.

Bouchard in recent years for QPR.

Girardin for consistent value and ease of drinking.

Coche-Dury for the occasional splurge.

Leroy is great, but much overpriced in the USA, IMO.

stefan

jal · Post by **jal** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:51 pm

Chassagne: Ramonet, Niellon
Puligny: Pernot (I had plenty of Pernot and not even one was oxidized!!), Leflaive (Domaine, not Olivier), Carillon, De Montille
Meursault: Roulot, Fichet, also Matrot is easy on the wallet and the palate - screw cap - best for early drinking.
Chablis: Ravenneau, Dauvissat, Fevre

I would not age any White Burgundies except Pernot and Leflaive

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:54 pm

You darned enablers you.

I'm planning on buying a couple mixed cases of 2007 white Burgs. They're probably expensive, half of them are probably damaged, but so be it....

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:08 pm

Any thoughts on this wine?

2007 V. Dauvissat Chablis Premier Cru Vaillons

jal · Post by **jal** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:51 pm

I have not tasted the '07 but I have four bottles of the '05. One of my go to producers in Chablis. If the price is good, buy without hesitation.

Chasse-Spleen · Post by **Chasse-Spleen** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:41 pm

If you don't have any Dauvissat by all means buy some - one of the world's great winemakers. You can't go wrong.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:06 am

Dauvissat is brilliant and seems to get better with every vintage, but I was a bit dismayed by the price of the 07s...bit out of my league now...Jim what were you quoted?

Rather than buy Dauvissat Vaillons 07 at $70-80 a pop I opted for the outstanding and almost as good J M Brocard Chablis Vaillons which I got for $24.99 a bottle from a place called All Star Wines in upstate NY...this is reduced from $39.99...I could not recommend it highly enough for $25.

Chablis was v strong in 07 and 08 apparently

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:12 am

$46 in NH but the last five bottles are supposedly being held for someone....

Chasse-Spleen · Post by **Chasse-Spleen** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:23 am

I'm by no means an expert on Dauvissat having tried it only two or three times. I brought a bottle of the Sechet 1er 2004 to a little offline we had at La Sirene, and I totally loved it, my WOTN. But I think the best strategy if you want to not pay through the nose is to try and buy the new vintage as soon as it hits the shelves (on sale if possible/necessary depending on where you're shopping - Zachy's obviously hah hah). I remember seeing some at Sherry-Lehman when the 2007 was brand new in the $50 range - an outrageous bargain for the quality level. They're all sold out now. Of course, I'm talking premier cru as opposed to grand cru. The grand cru is quite a bit more, over $100. But their 1er cru are fantastic.

That said, what's the quality level of 2008 looking like? I've been drinking this Verget 2008 Macon-Villages and loving it. If '08 is a good Chablis vintage (but don't producers like Dauvissat transcend vintage to some degree anyway?), it would be a good move IMO to grab it as it hits the shelves and everyone else is still chasing '07 and its good RP review points.

-Chasse

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:06 am

White Burgundy is too risky with Premox being unresolved by the producers. One can either drink them young and below a theoretical peak or roll the dice and age them while risking Premox disasater.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:01 pm

Is there a difference between these two wines:
Vincent Dauvissat (Rene and Vincent) Chablis Premier Cru Vaillons
and
Vincent Dauvissat Chablis Premier Cru Vaillons?

I see it listed both ways and the labels seem to be the same, are these the same wines or are they different wines?

jal · Post by **jal** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:26 am

Same stuff. Though there are other Dauvissats - Agnes and Didier, Jean and Sebastien.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:26 am

Jean and Sebastien I knew about, but Agnes & Didier? Is that another part of the same family?

jal · Post by **jal** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:19 am

stefan wrote:Jean and Sebastien I knew about, but Agnes & Didier? Is that another part of the same family?

Not according to Gilman. Here's his take on them:

Domaine Agnès et Didier Dauvissat (Beines)
The young Dauvissat couple are not related to Vincent Dauvissat, but they are
making very lovely wines from their nine hectares of vines scattered around the vignobles
of Chablis. Like many small producers in the region with much of their holdings in
villages level vineyards, the economic possibility to harvest by hand is not currently
available to the Dauvissats, and all of their production is currently done by machine.
Despite this they are making excellent wines, and which could jump up in quality even a
step further with hand harvesting. Perhaps as their renown grows in the coming years the
possibility will exist for such a change. In the meantime, they have made lovely 2006s
from their parcels, which only include one premier cru, Beauroy, from which they make
two distinct cuvées- one raised in stainless steel and one raised in barrel. These are
lovely wines and offer outstanding value.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:10 pm

Thanks, Jacques.

stefan

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:36 pm

Woohoo they released the five bottles of 2007 Dauvissat Chablis Premier Cru Vaillons to me because the guy they were holding them for never came in!

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:45 pm

Congratulations, Jim. You've got yourself some pretty nice bottles there.

Jon

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:01 pm

My latest additions to my cellar.

Whuzzup__ would be proud....

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:14 pm

Very nice, Jim. They should bring you much pleasure - if you ever go back to drinking wine!

Jon

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:36 am

I know, I'm out of practice, basically since Christmas Eve....