Best QPR in the 1855 classification

[Comte Flaneur]

For a long time it was Leoville Barton in my book, as I have been writing and saying for years. I own more of it than any other chateau. Super second quality for half the price. But the price of Leoville Barton has been rising steadily in real terms. In the UK since the 2016 landed the prestigious BWE woty award, its price has shot up to £950 in bond (ex taxes and duty) from about £700.

When I did my walk around tasting recently at the Saatchi Gallery on 17 November only two wines garnered one of the two four letter accolades beginning with FM. One was Calon Segur 2010, which costs over £1200 ib here and the other one was Grand Puy Lacoste 2015 which you can get for £500 ib. FMSW that is great QPR.

Since about 2014 GPL has stepped up. The wines have greater precision. When I was tasting 2016s a few years ago the GPL was indistinguishable from the revered Pichons and Lynch Bages quality wise, yet sells for around half or less of the price of these super seconds (de facto or otherwise). GPL now represents the best QPR in the 1855 classification.

Here is my top ten QPRs in the 1855 classification (previous ranking in brackets where applicable)

1. Grand Puy Lacoste
2. D’Issan
3. Gruaud Larose
4. Brane Cantenac
5. Leoville Barton (1)
6. Cantemerle
7. La Lagune
8. Branaire Ducru
9. Lagrange
10. Lafon Rochet

Yours?

[JimHow]

1. Sociando Mallet
2. Tour St. Christophe
3. Siran
4. Lafon Rochet
5. Giscours
6. Cantemerle
7. Corbin
8. Larose Trintaudon
9. Chasse Spleen
10. __________________*

*A wine under consideration for the 2022 BWE William "Stefan" Johnson Wine of the Year award.

[JimHow]

Oops sorry, I misread, you are talking 1855 Classification...
I will amend accordingly.

[stefan]

No spot for D'Armailhac? It is hard for me to make up such a list because I do not buy or drink young Bordeaux. But over a long period of time, D'Armailhac's QPR is hard to beat.

[Comte Flaneur]

No spot for D'Armailhac? It is hard for me to make up such a list because I do not buy or drink young Bordeaux. But over a long period of time, D'Armailhac's QPR is hard to beat.

I have had at best mixed experiences with d’Armailhac stefan. But mixed from a rather small sample, so something I need to address.

[Nicklasss]

Good subject Ian, but got me thinking hard. Dpends of what you've taste in the last few years i guess.

We did a Léoville Barton vertical tasting on Dec 1st, of non trophy vintages (95-01-02-04-07-08-15) and this was highly informative. I will report but forgot my notebook at the host house. But, a solid performance.

On the wines i drink a lot, Cantemerle is surely well considered on the p/q/classification ratio. The 2016 i had lately was convincing that way.

I did not had a lot of GPL lately, and the last i had, the 2012 was kinda dull.

So let try, with no real position, but 10 i find corresponding to what you expect in that topic.

Brane-Cantenac : still priced ok, for the quality. Reached a new quality peak in 2015-2016.

Cantemerle : well probably among the top q/p/ classification ratio. Try the 2010 or 2016, close your eye, and try to imagine you paid that 35-40 $. A bit insane.

Saint-Pierre : another we don't speek often, but delivers tremedous wines for the price. Try the 2016... it is probably the last of the Crus Classés that made a huge impression on me.

Léoville Barton : yes the price raised a bit, but still a great complex and complete 2nd Growth, for a relatively semi-affordable wine.

Issan : another amazing Margaux, clearly punching easily at it weight, for a very correct price. No bad showing in any vintages.

Grand-Puy Lacoste : i would agree that GPL is still a performet at that price. Classic Pauillac.

Branaire : also raise slightly in price, even if i thought the 2018 was not convincing (like other 2018 to me view), it always been a convenient convincing Saint Julien, at the right price.

La Lagune : a 3ieme Cru Classé still at a good price. Always made with the same classical style, complex, highly drinkable, and not boastful.

Gruaud Larose : critics seemed to release on Gruaud Larose after 1990 vintage, but for what reason? Still very solid, and with wines like 1996, 2000, 2015 and 2017, i think the price has coherence with quality.

Pontet Canet : i know, more expensive than ever, but when you flirt with the 1st Growth, it is amazing at that price.

[StBlGT]

My top 10 QPR from the classification would be:

1. d'Issan
2. Branaire-Ducru
3. Cantemerle
4. Brane-Cantenac
5. Gruard-Larose
6. Grand-Puy-Lacoste
7. d'Armailhac
8. Leoville Barton
9. La Lagune
10.Talbot

Great topic, Comte.

[DavidG]

I don’t think there are 10 wines in the 1855 classification that I would consider QPRs, which to me implies a low price ceiling. Not a wine that’s worth it despite the high cost.

There are three I consider buying at under $50, and only the first one is a regular yearly purchase:
Cantemerle
Prieure Lichine
La Lagune

Add another 3-5 if the cutoff goes up to $75:
Giscours
d’Issan
Talbot
Leoville Barton when available @ <$75
Gruaud Larose when available @ <$75

Over $75 no longer feels like a QPR to me. It wasn’t that long ago that over $50 didn’t feel like a QPR. And I still remember when QPR status implied a wine costing less than $20-25. But I had to walk barefoot in the snow to school back in those days. Uphill each way.

[JimHow]

I used to have to eat fish sticks on Fridays in grade school, and then the nuns would physically and psychologically torture us.

Cantemerle seems to be a pretty consistently good deal.
I'm afraid the days of Leoville Barton and Gruaud Larose at <$75 may be behind us forever.

[DavidG]

Eating fish sticks wasn’t physical and psychological torture enough?

Think you’re right about Leo B and Gruaud pricing, though they can occasionally be found ~$75.

[Blanquito]

My top QPRs listed in the 1855 classification:
Branaire Ducru
d’Issan
d’Armailhac
Brane Cantenac
GPL
Giscours
du Tertre
Cantemerle
Langoa Barton (since 2016)

Used to be, but no longer:
Lagrange
La Lagune (I don’t trust the new regime since circa 2005)

Anyone had a Ferriere? OrlandoBobby touts that one a lot.

[JimHow]

I did indeed buy a Ferriere once on Orlando Bobby's recommendation and I did indeed like it.
Langoa Barton seems to have really stepped it up. I even liked the 2018.

[sisler]

Two excellent QPR wines have not been mentioned so far:

Batailley
Malescot St. Exupéry

[JimHow]

I don't know if I've ever had a bottle of Batailley, at least not since Nicola coined the term: "Boring as a 1993 Batailley...."

[DavidG]

I once tried to buy a 1993 Batailley for one of our conventions. Found a bottle in Europe but shipping and customs at the time sounded more complicated than building a boat in my backyard and sailing over to get it myself.

[JoelD]

I once tried to buy a 1993 Batailley for one of our conventions. Found a bottle in Europe but shipping and customs at the time sounded more complicated than building a boat in my backyard and sailing over to get it myself.

Maybe this should be revisited for London? Only if Nic will be there to confirm it's quality though.

[Comte Flaneur]

Batailley is v popular over here and number one candidate for 1855 qpr. I asked the same question over here.

I remember the BWE Godfather, Sage of College Station, once proclaimed that ‘if you really have to drink Batailley’ drink a mature example.

Tbf I think this estate has improved. I tried the 2010 a couple of weeks ago and it was vgi.

Now London in March, who’s coming? So I can organise some dinners. Maybe we should do a separate thread.

[JimHow]

Good idea Comte, let’s do a separate thread on London in March.

[Claudius2]

Hmm
This is a tough ask here as the wines are twice the price as in Europe or the USA and the lesser priced wines are hardly cheap here. Accepting that my list IN NO ORDER is as follows:

Haut Medoc
La Lagune

St Julien
Branaire
Lagrange
St Pierre

Margaux
Du Tertre
Giscours
Malescot St E
Dufort Viviens
Priure Lichine
Ferriere - rarely gets attention but I’ve found recent vintages to be pretty good.

Pauillac
HBL - okay I have counted to 11 so I may as well play guitar with Spinal Tap. Wonder if they will tour again. If you don’t get it check with YouTube.

St Estephe
Run out of places.

Cheers
Mark

[Musigny 151]

Issan
Giscours
Branaire
Lagrange
Ferriere

Pichon Lalande and Montrose have great qpr compared to the first growths of the same quality level. Palmer just scraped out on qpr, although I think it is the best super second

[Ianjaig]

St Pierre
La Lagune
Giscours

All 3 I buy regularly due to the quality / price they offer.

[JimHow]

La Lagune and Giscours, yes.
St. Pierre, hmm.
Has anyone ever tasted a profound St. Pierre? If so, what vintage?

[Ianjaig]

I'm a fan of St Pierre. It's a style of Bordeaux that I really like and is reasonably priced given its quality. They are the factors I think of when thinking of QPRs.

"Profound"? Probably not, but the profound wines tend to come with a higher price tag unfortunately.

[sisler]

I tried the 2019 St. Pierre during an arrivage tasting in Zurich about one year ago; the wine blew me away, it was for me the best wine of the evening besides Lynch Bages, Leoville Barton and Brane Cantenac. I also have the 2009 in my cellar which was rated 98 points by Parker. The wine was a powerhouse when I tasted it back in 2012, worth every cent!

[Comte Flaneur]

La Lagune and Giscours, yes.
St. Pierre, hmm.
Has anyone ever tasted a profound St. Pierre? If so, what vintage?

The 1986 St-Pierre Jim is/was a cracking wine Jim, almost legendary. Not had one for over a decade but it is a wine I would snap up if I saw it.

[Nicklasss]

2016 Chateau Saint Pierre. Great wine already.

[jckba]

2016 Chateau Saint Pierre. Great wine already.

Saint Pierre and Gloria share the same ownership.

2016 was indeed showing well at that years UGC and was the 1st vintage I ever bought as previously I found the wines showed too much new oak for my liking.

[jckba]

I agree with Ian’s opening post, GPL takes the cake as the best QPR in the 1855 classification as I too have found certain vintages where it’s showing at the UGC was comparable to the Pichon’s and Lynch Bages and those are the years to scoop up.

My top 7 would fall like this:
1. Grand Puy Lacoste
2. D’Issan
3. Branaire Ducru
4. Gruaud Larose
5. Giscours
6. Lagrange
7. Brane Cantenac