1985 Leoville Las Cases and 2000 d’Issan

[JoelD]

Lately I've really been slacking on my write ups. However, these two wines were both opened alone, on a weeknight over the last week. Somehow two completely opposite wines in some ways, but kind of similar in others. Even though they weren't opened next to each other, it almost feels like they were.

1985 Leoville Las Cases- I'd been seeking this wine out for a while and it certainly did not disappoint. On pop n pour, this why showed that it subtly needed some air through it's understated structure and slight tartness. But immediately brimming with complexity. Absolutely lovely and classic Bordeaux. Pencil shavings, bit of cigar box. Just intoxicating nose. Try as I might though, I couldn't quite coax much of an extra gear out of this. It felt like it was sitting on the precipice of exploding out of the glass but never quite did. It stayed a touch reserved. Although I had a few tastes with food later in the evening that did take a step up. I am starting to believe that Las Cases is one of the few aged Bordeaux that I believe truly benefits from a decant and I will do that on my next bottle. 95pts

2000 d'Issan- The beautiful Margaux nose just screams out of the glass, before it's even up to my nose. Classic, but really just lovely. Both red and dark fruited. Some cassis. This wine has been in a perfect sweet spot the last few years and bottles that are on, sing. It's not the most terribly complex wine, but far from simple either. One of my favorite Bordeaux. Delivers almost every time. Very quaffable and was way too easy to finish the bottle in 2+ hours. 95pts

For my money, there's a clear choice. But I can totally see the beauty in both of these wines. Neither will make it into my top 10 of the year, but both are worthy of honorable mention. I could pick at straws, but they were both great wines, low in ABV that I basically finished a whole bottle to myself in a night which rarely happens.

[JimHow]

Mmm well done, Joel, those are two of my favorite vintages for those estates.

[JoelD]

Same here, Jim. The 2000 is definitely the best d'Issan I've had. Although I need to try the 05, and also the 01/06 that Ian and Mark rave about.

I'll take the 1990 Las Cases over this bottle of 1985 though. I'm quite curious to try another bottle and also the 1996 and 2000 when they're ready.

[robert goulet]

Nice....My 2022 bordeaux of the year is the '93 D'issan

Need to find a 2000

[Blanquito]

My 2022 bordeaux of the year is the '93 D'issan

RG is my new personal hero. Calls ‘em like he sees ‘em.

[jckba]

Nice notes on a pair of splendid wines!

[Comte Flaneur]

Leoville Lascases 1985 is generally pretty reliable - reliably great - but some bottles can be a little grumpy still. But it is usually a pretty good bet to please. The range is usually 94-98 pts.

However if I could name two vintages of LLC to drink now they would be the 1978 and the 1988.

I opened a bottle of D’Issan 2001 a few days ago, and it was exactly as you described the 2000 Joel, literally bursting with Margaux berries and a comfortable 95 pointer.

[DavidG]

Nice notes Joel. The 1990 LLC was showing well last February.

[robert goulet]

Nice boys...love to see the appreciation for this fine estate

'01 is a gem...had it 2x last year, gorgeous , classic gem

I have a bottle of the '90 resting...this will be something I will pop with Orl. Bobby come the right time.

[robert goulet]

My 2022 bordeaux of the year is the '93 D'issan

RG is my new personal hero. Calls ‘em like he sees ‘em.

Yes sir...and this is after having all of 1st growths from the left bank, plus some righties the likes of Cheval, Le Pin and Petrus.

Dare I say the '93 D'issan would have wiped the floor of all these wines...was increds...for me, that wine u chase, granted, maybe too herbal for some...wet earth, crisp celery stalk action, green tobacco and leather was fuqn amaze...haunts me

[JoelD]

Nice boys...love to see the appreciation for this fine estate

'01 is a gem...had it 2x last year, gorgeous , classic gem

I have a bottle of the '90 resting...this will be something I will pop with Orl. Bobby come the right time.

I had the 1990 a couple years ago and it was lovely. The 1990 Rausan Segla next to it was a bit better. But both great expressions of the vintage and Margaux in general. The nose on the Rausan was absolutely intoxicating. One of the best ever for me.

[Blanquito]

My 2022 bordeaux of the year is the '93 D'issan

RG is my new personal hero. Calls ‘em like he sees ‘em.

Yes sir...and this is after having all of 1st growths from the left bank, plus some righties the likes of Cheval, Le Pin and Petrus.

Dare I say the '93 D'issan would have wiped the floor of all these wines...was increds...for me, that wine u chase, granted, maybe too herbal for some...wet earth, crisp celery stalk action, green tobacco and leather was fuqn amaze...haunts me

Now I want to get a t-shirt or baseball cap that has 1993 d'Issan emblazoned across it. I'm serious. When an unheralded wine (back then) from a trashed vintage performs like this, it makes the chase seem silly (though, fully cognizant of the irony, I now plan to look high and low for a '93! Wish we'd known last Fall when we were at Chateau d'Issan, we might have sourced a library bottle). Where did you guys dig this one up?

Move over 1993 Batailley, there's a new 29 year-old in town.

*with a quick check I see you can get it in-bond in Burgundy, but not on the cheap for its rep, but if it crushes the 1sts...
https://www.prestige-cellar.fr/fr/borde ... -1993.html

[Nicklasss]

My 2022 bordeaux of the year is the '93 D'issan

RG is my new personal hero. Calls ‘em like he sees ‘em.

Yes sir...and this is after having all of 1st growths from the left bank, plus some righties the likes of Cheval, Le Pin and Petrus.

Dare I say the '93 D'issan would have wiped the floor of all these wines...was increds...for me, that wine u chase, granted, maybe too herbal for some...wet earth, crisp celery stalk action, green tobacco and leather was fuqn amaze...haunts me

I now understand your love for the 1993 d’Issan, bobby. Looks like a superb aged Chinon to me!

[Nicklasss]

Nice boys...love to see the appreciation for this fine estate

'01 is a gem...had it 2x last year, gorgeous , classic gem

I have a bottle of the '90 resting...this will be something I will pop with Orl. Bobby come the right time.

I had the 1990 a couple years ago and it was lovely. The 1990 Rausan Segla next to it was a bit better. But both great expressions of the vintage and Margaux in general. The nose on the Rausan was absolutely intoxicating. One of the best ever for me.

I agree Joel: I bought 2 times the 1990 Rausan Ségla at BWE events. A glorious nose, a glorious wine, a glorious 1990.

By the way, 1985 LLC is a gorgeous wine too, a superb Saint-Julien.

[robert goulet]

RG is my new personal hero. Calls ‘em like he sees ‘em.

Yes sir...and this is after having all of 1st growths from the left bank, plus some righties the likes of Cheval, Le Pin and Petrus.

Dare I say the '93 D'issan would have wiped the floor of all these wines...was increds...for me, that wine u chase, granted, maybe too herbal for some...wet earth, crisp celery stalk action, green tobacco and leather was fuqn amaze...haunts me

I now understand your love for the 1993 d’Issan, bobby. Looks like a superb aged Chinon to me!

Indeed brother Nic

[robert goulet]

RG is my new personal hero. Calls ‘em like he sees ‘em.

Yes sir...and this is after having all of 1st growths from the left bank, plus some righties the likes of Cheval, Le Pin and Petrus.

Dare I say the '93 D'issan would have wiped the floor of all these wines...was increds...for me, that wine u chase, granted, maybe too herbal for some...wet earth, crisp celery stalk action, green tobacco and leather was fuqn amaze...haunts me

Now I want to get a t-shirt or baseball cap that has 1993 d'Issan emblazoned across it. I'm serious. When an unheralded wine (back then) from a trashed vintage performs like this, it makes the chase seem silly (though, fully cognizant of the irony, I now plan to look high and low for a '93! Wish we'd known last Fall when we were at Chateau d'Issan, we might have sourced a library bottle). Where did you guys dig this one up?

Move over 1993 Batailley, there's a new 29 year-old in town.

*with a quick check I see you can get it in-bond in Burgundy, but not on the cheap for its rep, but if it crushes the 1sts...
https://www.prestige-cellar.fr/fr/borde ... -1993.html

I'd piss myself

[robert goulet]

Speaking trashed vintages...1991 Mouton is a gem...oh '87 is good too!

Funny...one of my other favorite bordeaux of the past year was '94 La Mish

[robert goulet]

I would love a tasting w/ strictly off vintages

[JoelD]

I would love a tasting w/ strictly off vintages

I like this idea. Should we hack it by only bringing wines that we know have shown well before? Or total free for all and everyone brings 5 bottles a person looking for the 1-2 gems? haha

[JimHow]

I think the significance of Bordeaux vintages is VASTLY overrated.
I've had great wines from supposedly weak vintages like 1987, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1997, 2002, 2007, 2013, etc., etc.
I WILL say that a 1984 Cos sucked the bag.

[marcs]

I would love a tasting w/ strictly off vintages

That was pretty much Saturday night at this years BWE DC - all 2002 all the time!

The upcoming year will permit us to celebrate vintages like 1983, 1993, 2013, etc. 2024 will offer similar opportunities

[robert goulet]

I would love a tasting w/ strictly off vintages

That was pretty much Saturday night at this years BWE DC - all 2002 all the time!

The upcoming year will permit us to celebrate vintages like 1983, 1993, 2013, etc. 2024 will offer similar opportunities

1983 has some killer wines...almost forgot I had a 1983 Monbrison recently...was fantastic

[Blanquito]

I’ve mentioned this one before but it’s been a while: the best “off vintage” claret I’ve had, by far, was the terrific 1992 Talbot.

It was being dumped in the mid-90’s for like $8 a pop, so my dad grabbed 3 cases and walked around with a big grin repeating “it’s Grand Cru!”. We drank reams of the stuff.

It took 3-4 years to blossom, and then, for a glorious 8 year run, it was complex, authentic, charming, grippy and absurdly delicious. It never had the stuffing of bigger years and when the end came, it came fast, leaving this a hollowed out and smoldering shell of its former self by 2004.

[robert goulet]

I’ve mentioned this one before but it’s been a while: the best “off vintage” claret I’ve had, by far, was the terrific 1992 Talbot.

It was being dumped in the mid-90’s for like $8 a pop, so my dad grabbed 3 cases and walked around with a big grin repeating “it’s Grand Cru!”. We drank reams of the stuff.

It took 3-4 years to blossom, and then, for a glorious 8 year run, it was complex, authentic, charming, grippy and absurdly delicious. It never had the stuffing of bigger years and when the end came, it came fast, leaving this a hollowed out and smoldering shell of its former self by 2004.

Love older Talbot...1982 remains a top 3 ever bordeaux for me

[marcs]

I’ve mentioned this one before but it’s been a while: the best “off vintage” claret I’ve had, by far, was the terrific 1992 Talbot.

It was being dumped in the mid-90’s for like $8 a pop, so my dad grabbed 3 cases and walked around with a big grin repeating “it’s Grand Cru!”. We drank reams of the stuff.

It took 3-4 years to blossom, and then, for a glorious 8 year run, it was complex, authentic, charming, grippy and absurdly delicious. It never had the stuffing of bigger years and when the end came, it came fast, leaving this a hollowed out and smoldering shell of its former self by 2004.

I do wonder how much of what determines a “good” vs a “bad” vintage is just how much stuffing for long aging a vintage has. How many off vintages are just as good but shorter lived? And how many wines from great vintages shut down for decades where they are dense but really aren’t that good to drink? (Granted not all great vintages are vins de garde but you know what I mean). For some vintages there’s a non-trivial chance a purchaser in their 40s could die before they’re really “ready”

My favorite thought experiment along these lines is 2004 vs 2005. Not sure which really will give more pleasure over a buyers lifetime

[JimHow]

We drank the 2013 Lagrange second label in Paris several nights, it was like the hotel wine, with cheese, overlooking the Eiffel Tower.
It was perfectly lovely.

[Blanquito]

Great thoughts, Marcus. I think it was Stefan who long ago pointed out the general trade off between expressive aromatics vs palate power, and this certainly has been my experience. I think 02 vintage is the case in point — the bouquets are already just so delightful, expressive and detailed, and in a way that’s hard to imagine an 05 or 10 ever developing, let alone in the next decade or so. Powerful wines have their place, but so do more lithe, delicate ones (as long as that nuance doesn’t come in the form of dilution or thoroughly vegetal flavors, I suppose).

[Blanquito]

We drank the 2013 Lagrange second label in Paris several nights, it was like the hotel wine, with cheese, overlooking the Eiffel Tower.
It was perfectly lovely.

I once had a nice bottle of the 1995 Amiral de Beychevelle at restaurant in nyc on New Year’s Eve 1999 as we awaited Y2K apocalypse— it was surprisingly good and totally open for business.

[AKR]

Nice picture

[JimHow]

JimHow wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 2:19 pm
We drank the 2013 Lagrange second label in Paris several nights, it was like the hotel wine, with cheese, overlooking the Eiffel Tower.
It was perfectly lovely.
I once had a nice bottle of the 1995 Amiral de Beychevelle at restaurant in nyc on New Year’s Eve 1999 as we awaited Y2K apocalypse— it was surprisingly good and totally open for business.

Ah, I was sipping a 1990 Cos d'Estournel in an old city restaurant Quebec City that night when my ex-wife was contemplating asking me to marry her, I'll never forget the plaintive cellos singing in the new millennium. That was before BWE. There is pre-BWE history, and post-BWE history.

[JimHow]

BWE history -- the universe as we know it -- began at the moment of genesis, late morning February 26, 2000, when a nuclear Big Bang moment occurred in the internet, and I emailed a fellow from Indianapolis by the name of Whuzzup__.

[stefan]

I have a few wines from 1984 and 1977 that belong in such a tasting.

No way 1983 can be considered a weak or off vintage. I guess 1993 is, but some have aromatics that are off the charts.

[DavidG]

Agree, Stefan, I’ve had a lot of very good and excellent 1983s. No way it’s an off vintage. Perhaps overshadowed by 1982, like 1981 and 1988 in that regard, but not off.

[marcs]

A 1993 Haut Brion I had I think back in 2021 was absolutely stunning. It had an overall delicacy and transparency, and the nose had a complexity, that I’ve often found absent in “big” vintages

[marcs]

Great thoughts, Marcus. I think it was Stefan who long ago pointed out the general trade off between expressive aromatics vs palate power, and this certainly has been my experience. I think 02 vintage is the case in point — the bouquets are already just so delightful, expressive and detailed, and in a way that’s hard to imagine an 05 or 10 ever developing, let alone in the next decade or so. Powerful wines have their place, but so do more lithe, delicate ones (as long as that nuance doesn’t come in the form of dilution or thoroughly vegetal flavors, I suppose).

Yes this exactly, a trade off between expressiveness of the bouquet and palate power. Lithe and delicate are good descriptions too. Of course such wines also tend to be more vulnerable to heat damage and the like. Perhaps wines from more imposing vintages eventually develop such complexity with enough age as well. A recent 1986 Talbot I had is evidence for that. But it’s by no means guaranteed. And I find that big vintage wines always tend to have a strong “bass” note to their symphony even after they develop aged complexity - which is absolutely fine but perhaps not as delicate in its expression

[Blanquito]

Agree, Stefan, I’ve had a lot of very good and excellent 1983s. No way it’s an off vintage. Perhaps overshadowed by 1982, like 1981 and 1988 in that regard, but not off.

Totally, I think every 83 Bordeaux I’ve had at least qualified as a success if not much better (except for a certain third growth from the Haut-Medoc, which it seems underperforms in every vintage)

[JoelD]

A 1993 Haut Brion I had I think back in 2021 was absolutely stunning. It had an overall delicacy and transparency, and the nose had a complexity, that I’ve often found absent in “big” vintages

I loved this too. It really unfurled slowly but got amazing. Early on we were worried it would fall off but just got better and better. I was able to source a bottle after tasting this. Really looking forward to it.

[Nicklasss]

A magnum of 1993 Haut Brion was magic, the first dinner of BWE week in Bordeaux in 2015.

So was the magnum of 1975 Cheval Blanc.