What's the BWE take on 2008 BDX?

[Blanquito]

With the 2009 hype machine gearing up for April, in the calm before the storm I am wondering if BWE has formed anything like a "viewpoint" on 2008 BDX? Personally, I have had zero interest (so far) after going so long on the 2005 vintage (and saving very little in the process for buying futures rather than released wines). I have bought 0 bottles of 2008 Bordeaux (and 0 of 2007, for that matter). My 2006 purchases are about 1.5 cases in total, due to some good pricing; e.g., Lagrange $25, Chevalier Rouge $33, Barde Haut $19, d'Issan $32.

Parker's high praise seems at odds with the rest of the wine critics world (at least superficially), but with the potential for crazy 2009 pricing, is anyone now paying more attention to 2008? Anyone taste these wines in barrel?

Cheers,
Patrick

[stefan]

I bought two cases on futures and have no plans to buy more.

stefan

[Winona Chief]

No particular opinion on the 2008 Bordeaux but my general approach to all the newer vintages is to wait and see. I think prices are headed down.

Chris Bublitz

[DavidG]

I figured I was pretty much done buying young Bdx after going heavy at high prices on '05s (and that was without any Firsts). But then I couldn't resist a case of '06 Angelus. '07 was an easy pass across the board.

The '08 notes/scores/prices were certainly more intriguing, but I am sitting on the sidelines for now. Have not purchased any futures. The wines themselves, not the critics or the salesmen, will have to make a compelling argument to get me to buy in any quantity. Partly because I already have enough Bdx for the next couple of decades, partly because I am finding a lot of enjoyment from much lower-priced early-drinking wines, and partly because recent pricing has taken a fairly big chunk out of the easy money of buying en primeur Bdx as an investment. Not that I started out buying it as an investment, but if it isn't a great investment, and I don't "need" it for drinking, and I can get similar (if qualitatively different) enjoyment out of cheaper stuff, why continue to buy?

And now we have '09 ramping up for en primeur season. The 4th or 5th "Best Vintage In the History of Mankind" since I've been into Bdx ('82 was the first). Can't wait to see the hype and the prices for that. Gag me with a spoon... I hope Chris B is right about prices. Maybe true for stuff that is backing up in the pipeline. Gotta clear it out to make way for the next "Best Vintage."

[JonB]

It seems the major US reviewers have all (coincidentally) decided not to review 2008 as they taste 2009s. I bought a few '08s early (duhart, latour, pichon lalande, and a few pomerols) but subsequently swore off futures.

My guess is that there will be very little demand for '08s until (and if) a major reviewer confirms Parker's barrel impressions...regardless of how 2009 is priced. If RP or other reviewers don't confirm RP's high barrel reviews, 2008s will be overpriced.

There were barrel tasting reports by Izak (with confirmation by Alex) some time ago.

[Chasse-Spleen]

It's really hard to say what the style of a vintage is without tasting it personally, but looking at Parker's scores, 2008 certainly does look interesting. In recent years it seems to be either a vintage of all time (mid 90s) or mediocre (88 high), but in 2008 his appellation ratings are definitely a step up at least from mediocre. I'm very interested in what these wines will taste like. But I'm enjoying the '06s that I'm tasting and believe it or not, I'm looking forward to trying the '07s. I don't buy futures. It's strange that with so many good vintages out there, it's not a buyer's market at all. I'm hoping the prices will come down.

Bordeaux prices are really strange - why does d'Armailhac 2006 cost $34 and La Lagune 2006 $60 at Garnet? Both are currently rated at 91 by whatsits. The production volume of the wines is similar. It's funny because I know that both of these wines are favorites of our friend and true wine expert, stefan. I do know that hizzhoner opened with an 88-90 on the Pauillac and 92-94 on LL, so that would account for the pricing. But now he's evened them out to both at 91. Huh?
-Chasse

[stefan]

Chris, according to WineSearcher, La Lagune '06 should be only around $10 more than '06 D'Armailhac. I don't imagine Garnet is selling any at $60. I have not tasted either, BTW, even if these estates are favored by both Lucie and me. Come to think of it, I have tasted hardly any '06 Bdx...

stefan

[Chasse-Spleen]

Stefan,
I saw it with my own eyes and checked again on the web before posting. I just looked again at various other things and it bears out my statement - prices are just really off the wall in some cases, it makes you want to ask if there's a typographical error. '04 Montrose is $60 and '05 Sociando is $50, both reasonable, I guess. Then there's '06 St. Pierre at $73! '06 La Tour Carnet is $40.
-Chasse

[JonB]

This is probably due to when the retailer bought the wine. If they bought it as a future, or through normal distributor pricing, the '06s were quite expensive.

If they bought through a distributor sale, or later when the negociants figured out they couldn't sell the wines at initial pricing, the retailer's prices should be much lower.

This is happenning to '04s, '05s, '06s....and surely will happen to '07s as they start being delivered to retailers.....new prices are being reset lower due to oversupply, slow sales of high-end ($20+) wines, and the economy.

[Chasse-Spleen]

Jon,
I totally agree. Still, it shows how contrived their (the Bordelais) pricing strategies are. They certainly have a lot of balls!
-Chasse

[rjsussex]

The UK trade were incredulous at RP's 08 barrel scores and the general feeling is that 06s are better. Having said that I've been tempted by Ormes de Pez 08, a wine I usually ignore as rather commercial but apparently very good in 08.

Richard

[Chasse-Spleen]

Richard,
What are they saying about '09? I've heard tinklings of another vintage of the century. I don't believe it, of course, but I'm curious, still. I suppose the whole world is awaiting RP's barrel scores...
-Chris

PS. Tonight Ian and I are going to try an '06 d'Armailhac. ITNOS, of course ;0) I also have an '06 Camensac. I've never tried that estate but I'm looking forward to trying it soon. $18 for a 5th growth! I know, it's not exactly GPL...

[JonB]

Chasse - Suckling has been blogging about the '09 tastings and has come out with scores on many of the top wines.

He's saying that many of the top wines are better or equal to '05, etc....but that a) across the board quality is not as strong as 2005, 2000, etc; b) there appear to be 2 camps of great wines.....some made in an overtly modern, new world, fruit-forward style that should be accessible early, and others in a more reserved, structured style similar to 2000.

[rjsussex]

Chris - like everyone else in the UK I'm at the mercy of trade briefings but I did notice Michael Schuster deploring the over the top Cos d'Est when he tasted it (hey - I've just read our own great Alex on this board saying the same - thanks Alex!) which suggests that big, modern, alcoholic wines are going to be the problem... And for the UK prices are going to be the real no-no with the exchange rate I think!

R

[Chasse-Spleen]

I don't think anyone here has an interest in big, alchoholic non-terroir driven wines, but someone must be buying them - no one that I know. Another thing - the prices are going to go up again? Who could possibly be so interested in Bordeaux these days at such high prices? I went recently to the New York Wine Expo convention, admittedly a commercial/consumer trade show but get this - there was ZERO Bordeaux. In any event, I'm enjoying the '06s that I've been trying (soon to report on the luscious d'Armailhac we drank last night) and there are plenty of other wines to drink while dodging the Valmangaux of the world...
-Chris

[Houndsong]

I'm glad 2009 is another must-have or you really, really suck vintage. It should take some pressure off the rest of the wine world, where deals will be had.

[JonB]

While this isn't the BWE take, it is a take:

James Suckling — — March 28, 2010 4:16am ET

For those who ask, the 2008s pale compared to the 2009s. They just are not in the same league. As I wrote, 2008s will never be considered great. And I expect prices to go down on them. I have tasted a few at various chateau and they taste pretty weak against the 2009s.

[Blanquito]

Oh boy, we may have another Suckling vs. Parker, '95 vs. '96 debate brewing here! Or not...

Is it just me, or do I sense some BWE wine fatigue on recent Bordeaux (post-2005 vintages)? I mean, we're not only passing on buying them, we don't even seem that interested in talking or even bashing them!?!

Richard, Chris and Ian are doing their best to drum up some interest in what sound like lovely 2006s, but even with some really good prices (e.g. $25 for Chateau Lagrange, Parker's favorite since the 2000), I am hard-pressed to care much. Prove me wrong, Chasse, and give us something to get excited about with the 2006 d'Armailhac!

[Comte Flaneur]

The d'Arm....dammit I can never spell that wine ... I thought was cocooned last Friday - Chris will hate me for saying that - but it had a fabulous classy silky texture - this could be a smart buy, because afterall it is a junior Mouton, and apparently Mouton kick proverbial 'derriere' in 06

[Blanquito]

I see the 2006 d'Arm for as low as $32. A worthy buy?

[Comte Flaneur]

Yes I think so. We also had GPL 06, which was much more giving. Think Gloria is a match for both, however and $10 cheaper. The 01 LLC was outstanding but also very shut down. The Lopez wines - 70 Tondonia and 01 Bosconia, took the limelight because they were so much more exuberant and accessible. Now the Yquem 03 was none too shabby - more elgant and less of a heavy hitter than I thought with fine acidity too (unlike perhaps some other 03s - allegedly), but the star of the show was...over to you Chris (hint: the wine you tried to monopolise early in the evening)

[Chasse-Spleen]

Ian opened a Dauvissat-Camus Les Clos Grand Cru 1998 that he had since release. No pre-mox to speak of. It was super delicious and subtle...

Pale gold. Lovely texture and finish. Very minerally. Super elegant with a beautiful nose of honey, butter, oak and minerals. Ian described the nose perfectly as lemon merengue. Beautiful acidity and balance. Just a great wine. Not huge or powerful but all in subtle elegance, style and thrist quenching, refreshing fabulousness. Maybe just starting to strut its stuff but potentially fully mature. Some great wines that night!

[JonoB]

FWIW I went quite long on 08 Bordeaux... I like acid and less alcohol. The wines tend to hold up better and grow old gracefully as oppose to suddenly dropping off a cliff!

However, with the price rises of the Mouton and Duhart from 08, I think I will be selling those before the 09s release and keeping the rest of them! However, maybe I should stick with stupid 09 prices to come, they may still look extraordinarily cheap!

[DavidG]

Jono - diversity is what makes it interesting. I like less acid, you like more acid, there will always be wines to please us both. I do take issue with the notion that acid is required for Bdx to age well. The '82s were criticized for being acid-deficient, and they are growing old quite gracefully, at least to my palate. Would you agree?

[JonoB]

The Best 82s are holding up beautifully David, but they have a lot more acid than similar vintages today due to wine-making techniques.
It is simply my palate, and variety is the spice of life, I will certainly look forward to tasting many 03s and 09s in the future, they may not be my style, but if they are balanced they will be tasty.

Going back to 82, the lack of acid makes me think they will dry out as oppose to slowly maderise, which is usually the case.
Having tried a dried up 73, and a mucky 69 recently... the sous bois of the 69 was far easier to drink... that is due to the acid.
I feel that low acid vintages do age well... however, when they die they die harder and faster than high acid vintages. That 69 will be palatable if you like those flavours for another 5 years. The 73 has died a painful death already. Both are pretty hideous vintages. I suppose that was more my point... I like a bit of sous bois.

However, we talk of 82 as a great vintage... for me it is a good vintage with some great wines. They have not held up like the great vintages of the 40s, 50s and 60s (the best wines). There are some brilliant and still youthful and fresh 78 Cru Bourgeouis about.