Asimov: Bordeaux...is now largely irrelevant

[JonB]

Bordeaux Loses Prestige Among Younger Wine Lovers

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/19/dinin ... nted=1&hpw


There’s More to the World of Fine Wine Than Bordeaux

http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/ ... -bordeaux/

While the quote in the title is taken out of context, it clearly is the case here in this part of the country. Very few restaurants carry Bordeaux, and even the fine wine merchants carry very little Bordeaux. I asked one local merchant who owns a couple of fine wine stores in the area, and he shrugged his shoulders about how high priced Bordeaux is relative to quality, and that he stopped buying futures due to the high risk.

[Harry C.]

It has to be said that they made their own bed and need to lie in it. The ridiculous higher end Bordeaux pricing, the too married at the hip Parker lovers (waiting to see his scores before releasing their prices), and the archaic multitier releasing structure. They are praying the Asia will save them, and for the higher end it may, but does Asia buy up the fifth growths? the lesser cru, the Medocs?

[Houndsong]

Certainly this is shocking news at a place called Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts. Probably also among the .001 of wine elitists like moi. Unless you are a savant who can "understand" Bordeaux and converse (nay debate) with others like yourself about it, this is not a problem, nor is it even news.

[AlexR]

Interesting.
Both articles were written by the same person, but the latter one, in the Diners Journal, is much less provocative and one-sided.

A few comments here .

For a start, Asimov is talking about Bordeaux in the US, and many of his comments do not really apply to other markets.
I also find the title of the first article erroneous. It's not that Bordeaux has lost prestige. It's that the name wines are unreachably expensive and that there is, admittedly, an image problem. However, prestige is not an issue here.

Some points in the article are well made. However, what goes around comes around.
In other words, if Bordeaux is less fashionable, it is far from unlikely that it will come back into fashion, like so many things...
Remember when there was brief boycott of French wines because France did not support the war in Iraq? No more than a blip, really, when all is said and done.
I do not contest that demand has fallen off for Bordeaux in America. But I say that icons are always under attack, and I'll bet my bottom dollar that I'll read a New York Times article down the line saying something like "New Enthusiasm for the Wines of Bordeaux"...
This is journalism, which is only qualified to grab hold of the ephemeral.

Asimov is right when he mentions the somewhat stuffy image of fine Bordeaux. However, many of the young wine drinkers he mentions will settle down, make kids, and become stuffier themselves as time goes on! )).
I honestly think that a certain number of them will "graduate" to Bordeaux because, as the article says, the great wines *are* the benchmarks.

Asimov really misses the boat when he implies that it is easier to buy Burgundy. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I agree that the Bordelais have work to do in the States. I am thinking less of the Union des Grands Crus tastings than promoting - and selling - the good value wines of Bordeaux which are not well known nor readily available in the US.

Bet regards,
Alex R.

[JimHow]

There is a side of us that wishes Asimov were right, but is he? Unlike him, I've run into lots of young sommeliers who are enthusiastic about Bordeaux. Bordeaux is out of fashion but the retailers always seem to sell out their stocks of each vintage in the end, despite prices. NH has a few odds and ends left here and there, likewise PJs and other stores I usually deal with. And I don't know what restaurants he is going into, but I usually see lots of Bordeaux available on wine lists at restaurants expensive and less expensive. His report seems more anecdotal than based on any hard information. I think in the end the market just fleshes everything out year after year. The issue is that there are more options are available out there for the greater numbers drinking quality wines. I don't think Bordeaux has lost any great respect in the marketplace. It is not just young people drinking wine out there. I'll bet us aging baby boomers with our disposable incomes are still drinking large amounts of Bordeaux, and we are still the huge economic force we have always been (good and bad). And I agree with Alex that it seems silly to say that Burgundy is more approachable in the marketplace than Bordeaux. Is the Bordeaux market crashing? I wish. But unfortunately I think it is wishful thinking.

[DavidG]

I agree with Alex. Price has made Bordeaux unfashionalbe. At least the top ones.

Wines that used to be affordable at restaurants, at least when in splurge mode, are now either laughably priced or not on the menu at all. They may be replaced by some of the smaller and more affordable Bordeaux, or in some cases by wines from other regions.

As to lack of respect, backlash against pricing is part of it, and reaction to the style modernization may be part of it too. If people think there is less to distinguish Bdx from other regions, they will be less excited about Bdx. But I think that phenomenon is overstated by Asimov and a few vocal critics. I'm betting/hoping that a lot of the "modern" wines will still turn into good ole responsible adult Bdx when they get past adolescence.

Jim, it will be interesting to see if '06, '07, '08, and '09 will sell through at anywhere close to release prices, or if we will see major discounts in the next 1-3 years. Just because the wines aren't sitting on the shelves of major retailers doesn't mean they have all been sold to consumers. Ultimately, the supply chain will drop the price to the necessary level to make room for more inventory.

[JimHow]

But from what I can see the 2005s and 2006s are pretty much sold out, despite their high prices. Okay there are still some '06 Latours on the shelf in NH for for over $1,000, but the Duharts and Pontet Canets and Lynches, etc., are all gone.

It's too early to tell about how much of a bath the retailers will take with the 2007 vintage. They'll probably do what they did with 1997: Discount prices and move on. If they have one bad year out of every ten because the market tipped against them, well, they'll survive.

As for pricing for the 2008 and 2009 Bordeaux vintages, I guess I'll argue Alfred Tesseron's point when we met him a few years ago. He said, in much more diplomatic words: Pontet Canet at $60-70 is a better "value" than any of the swill coming out of California at twice the price. And he's right.

Bordeaux is hurting in the market? Compared to who? California? Bankrupt Spain? Who isn't struggling in this worldwide financial mess other than the bankruptcy lawyers? Burgundy may have great humble farmer winemakers and their wines may be true and all that, but to call them any sort of a bargain just ain't correct....

[DavidG]

Top Burgs are no more a bargain than top Bdx. But there are values in both regions.

The '06 Bdx may be mostly sold since the last round of discounting. But to take your example of Pontet Canet, Wine Searcher still has over 3 pages of listings where the '06 can be found, and PJ's is one of them Just because you don't see it on the shelf or website of your favorite retailer doesn't mean it isnt out there. It's going for $70-80 on the low end, more like $90-100 in Maryland. Pontet Canet 2008 is currently $75-80. I wonder how that compares to futures pricing? One can hope, but I doubt that '09 Pontet Canet is going to be $60-70. Would it be a value at $75-100? Yes, compared to a lot of Cali Cabs at or above that price. But not compared to what's already in the cellar. Which is why some of the wine press that has been around a while is expressing such discontent. That and the style changes.

[JimHow]

I don't know anything about how three pages of listings of '06s on Wine Searcher compares to past years. Is it more? Less? The same? Three pages of listings on wine Searcher is a molecule of a percentage of the total number of retailers out there in the world. i don't know what the actual data is. All i know is what my eyes tell me as I look on the shelves of the retailers with whom I usually deal, like PJs, NH, etc. And my eyes tell me that these wines are selling out at basically the same rates as in the past. It wouldn't surprise me that there are more 2006s on Wine Searcher than any other vintage, that's the last vintage that came out. Pop's is basically all sold out of their 2006s. PJs has sold out almost all of its 2008 futures before they hit the shelves, like they do every year. I think the report of the death of Bordeaux is very, very premature....

[robertgoulet]

The fun part of bordeaux is finding those quiet gems that cost pennies and compete with the bigger wines.
ex. a couple recent bottles of 2001 Vieux Château Champs de Mars Johanna were fantasic at $15. The 03' Feret Lambert, or 04' Larose Trintaudon were drinking beautifully also. It's a shame we do not see these in restaurants, but I do understand.
Many bordeaux's have the funk which novice drinkers are not accustomed to. Everything is cyclical, Bordeaux will be back!!

[AlexR]

Robert,

Right on!!!

Yes, and a couple of those wines you named are favorites of mine.

"Second best" in Bordeaux can be a tiny fraction of what the "grands vins" cost - and represent very good quality.

All the best,
Alex R.

[Jay Winton]

got an offer from Schneiders in DC yesterday for 06 Bordeaux-prices seemed decent

[JCNorthway]

I'm not surprised that young people are not drinking Bordeaux wines; I'm not sure they ever have. Unless you are introduced to the wine world by someone who drinks Bordeaux wines, you are likely to start on something else. Most of my early wine days were based on figuring it out on my own, with a few nudges from west coast friends. I gradually discovered and got interested in Bordeaux wines several years later, at least partly from reading about the 89 and 90 vintages in Wine Spectator - yes, I used to depend on it.

I do think that pricing of the higher quality of wines is part of the challenge. But I also think it is because those are the only wines that most of us ever hear or read about in the wine press. Yet there still are very nice Bordeaux wines in the $15-25 range, or more if you wish to go higher; the challenge is knowing which ones. Fortunately at this site, there are several individuals who know some of these wines and talk about them. I also have a wine guy who buys at that pricing level based on his own tasting or input from respected others in the trade. But it you don't have those kinds of connections, it is hard to get introduced to that level of Bordeaux wines.

Jon

[DavidG]

Jim, good point about '06 being the current vintage, so there should be a lot of it out there right now. And I think it will have a better shot at selling than '07, '08, or '09, since the wines from '06 seem to very good and prices came down a bunch from '05. I'm not usually one who predicts the collapse of the Bdx market, having heard this tale of exorbitant prices and questionable style changes time and again. And so far the Chateaux keep making the stuff, the negocs, importers, distributors and retailers keep moving it, and the consumers keep buying it. I'm less optimistic right now because of the global financial situation (even though Euros are cheaper, buyers may be feeling cheaper too) and anticipation of really high '09 prices. But ultimately the wine will make its way through the system, like an oversized meal through a python.

As to Wine Searcher being a molecule of a percentage of the total number of retailers out there, I agree. But it's many multiples more than the sampling you see when visiting your usual retailers.

Robert and Jon - great points about the fun and challenge being in finding the values. That's what I should be going back to.

[JimHow]

I'm going to buy some back vintages of Duhart Milon from '02 and '04 to go along with the '05s and '06s in my cellar. I can see this is going to become the next previously affordable BWE type of wine that is about to go out of our price range, a la Leoville Barton, Leoville Poyferre, Pontet Canet, etc., etc.