Lafite defeat

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:42 pm

I rounded up all 5 bottles of Lafite that were available in Northern Nevada for investment purposes. This is with the exception of some 2008 at Total Wine which is north of 2k.

When I was in NJ last week I went to about 10 stores and could not locate a single bottle of Lafite. The mania over Lafite is beyond belief.

JonB · Post by **JonB** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:46 am

Glen -from what I've read it has plateaued, albeit at high levels. My case of '04 sold for 13320.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:22 pm

Not too shabby Jon!

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:28 pm

I got a paltry $800 per for my 2002s. I hope the Lafite market continues to rocket higher, Glenn. I'll gladly toss in my other four if it does. Three more bottles and we have a "mixed case" commanding a premium.

I remember five or six years ago we were speculating about when a 1st growth would go for $1k per en primeur. Anybody care to speculate about the next/other benchmarks? 2k? 10k? Anyone calling a top, and if so, how long before it's exceeded?

JonB · Post by **JonB** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:55 pm

I'm amazed prices are as high as they are now for recent-release Lafite and 1sts; it is beyond my comprehension and values. Still, I can see the value if I was in a position of wanting to impress someone that represented millions in potential business.....

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:12 am

Gosh, 2002 Lafite has only appreciated 800% in seven years? Tsk, tsk.

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:23 pm

I tried to reload on 2003. Thw wholesaler jacked up the wholesale price to $1500 per bottle. No thanks.

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:27 pm

Here are a few more bottles to chase from Hart-Davis-Hart auction - though not at bargain prices

Pretty unbelievable:

An Auction of Finest & Rarest Wines
Lafite Rothschild remains one of the hottest wines in the world. The June 24th & 25th auction features 157 lots of Château Lafite Rothschild worth an estimated $1.1-$1.7 million. With a variety of formats including half-bottles, bottles, magnums, double-magnums, a rare jeroboam, and imperials, this is a perfect chance to pick up a few lots of one of the world’s most renowned wines. Other highlights include 9 lots of the highly sought-after Carruades de Lafite.
Please contact us with any questions about lots, bidding or attending.
Our catalog is available online, fully searchable and specially
designed for secure bidding. To view photos of the top lots, click here.
Highlights from the Auction Include:

LotWine Estimate
125, 1640, 1766 2003 Château Lafite Rothschild (12 bs) $14000-20000
142 1990 Château Lafite Rothschild (12 bs) $9500-14000
190-191 2005 Carruades de Lafite (6 mags) (owc) $3500-5500
401 1982 Château Lafite Rothschild (12 bs) $40000-60000
823 1998 Château Lafite Rothschild (12 bs) (owc) $9500-14000
935 1983 Château Lafite Rothschild (3 dbl-mags (3L)) $8000-12000
949-950, 1167, 1242 1986 Château Lafite Rothschild (12 bs) $18000-28000
970 1989 Château Lafite Rothschild (12 bs) $8500-13000
971 1989 Château Lafite Rothschild (6 mags) (owc) $8500-13000
1015-1016 1990 Château Lafite Rothschild (24 hbs) (owc) $9500-14000
1039-1042, 1178, 1575 1995 Château Lafite Rothschild (12 bs) (owc) $9500-14000
1246 2003 Château Lafite Rothschild (6 hbs) $3200-4800
1273 2000 Château Lafite Rothschild (1 dbl-mag (3L)) $8000-12000
1367 1999 Château Lafite Rothschild (12 bs) $9500-14000
1528 1981 Château Lafite Rothschild (1 dbl-mag (3L)) $3200-4800
1746 1982 Château Lafite Rothschild (2 mags) $13000-19000
1763 2000 Carruades de Lafite (12 bs) $3800-5500

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:01 pm

As an investment, 800% is not unsatisfactory. But it's so hard to put a value on the forgone pleasure.

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:33 pm

An industry professional stated to me that Lafite prices have plateaued. Hmm, maybe.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:43 pm

My mixed case:
1996 Lafite (5 bottles)
1998 Lafite (1 bottle)
2001 Lafite (1 bottle)
2002 Lafite (3 bottles)
2004 Lafite (2 bottles)

Average purchase price per bottle: $152.50.

I'm not selling, I'm going to drink these bastards.

JCNorthway · Post by **JCNorthway** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:32 am

Spoken like a true wine drinker. And one of the underlying tenets of BWE - wine is meant to be enjoyed.

Chasse-Spleen · Post by **Chasse-Spleen** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:29 am

I think drinking the wine is the best route. What do we live for? It's kind of silly to think of what something is worth when you love it so much. Think of how little you paid, and then enjoy it. I can see dumping a case of 2004 for a huge profit, but a mixed case of all these cool vintages? 2002? Who needs money? You've got Lafite!
-Chasse

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:11 am

Yea Jim, live by example! Just a thought. While I appreciate the resolve to drink those babies, I think it would be perfectly justifiable to swap some for the veritable boat load of whatever your next favourite wine might be. That would still qualify as a drinking rather than profit ethic. However, if the cellar is already really full of everything you love, drink away. I only wish I could join you in the venture. Unfortunately, I don't own any

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:41 am

Cheap Lafite?
http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-Chateau-Lafite ... 2881wt_972

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:39 am

I put down the Kool-Aid and sold most of my Lafite (I held those from birth & anniversary years). We all have a point at which we become sellers. I certainly wouldn't be a buyer @ $1200-1500+/btl, and drinking one from the cellar is the equivalent of irrevocably buying one at that price, regardless of its initial cost. I wouldn't have felt that way 20 years ago, but with age, idealism has been supplanted by realism. No wine is worth that much to me unless it has some special sentimental value. I paid off the car, did some remodeling, and had plenty left over for a few cases of not-insanely-priced wine. There are still other wines in the cellar that can give as much or more excitement and pleasure at substantially less cost.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:22 pm

When you get to the equities things get weird. I'm all for drinking the Lafite if that's what you want. Personally, the 2002 Lafite is on plane with 2002 Ch. Gloria when it comes to the enjoyment factor, so it made sense to me to sell it and give the proceeds to the dog shelter or whatever. $800 will keep them going for a while. On the other hand, I'm no St. Francis. I paid $1000 for a uke in Hawaii. Maybe I'll convert it to dog food one day, but for the present it's providing me with a durable source of pleasure well beyond what I get from wine. I do not feel badly/selfish for having some personal enjoyment. Oh yeah, the uke never gives me a headache. It gives my wife a headache, but that's her problem.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:57 pm

I could see selling my Lafite, but I cannot see paying ordinary income tax on the sale. What we don't drink my kids will inherit; they can sell it with the stepped-up basis.

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:09 pm

Hound,

I have my guitar and my (small cheapo) ukelele sitting out in my office - playing the uke always makes me smile.

I think the current market is like someone offering $5,000 for your "Lafite" uke while you know you can get a similar replacement from "Latour" for $1000. All of our Lafite (and a lot of other $$$ Bordeaux) hits the HDH auction block on Friday morning...

Tom

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:46 pm

You have a point about taxes, Stefan. I would make a couple of clarifications. First, you would pay capital gains, not income taxes. Second, if you had any capital losses from the last financial collapse that had not yet been offset by capital gains, they can be carried over and used to offset the gains from the sale of wine.

I don't begrudge anyone's pleasure in opening a $1500 bottle, its just not something I'm planning in the foreseeable future.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:46 am

Oops; I knew that from your earlier posts. Unfortunately, the capital gains tax for wine is 25% instead of 15%. But, as you say, these can be offset by capital losses on stocks. That, more than declining wealth, probably explains wine sales in bad times.

tim · Post by **tim** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:44 pm

Question: I'm considering unloading some of my Lafite, at these prices I can buy something I will enjoy more for the price. Where is a good recommended way of selling? Winecommune? Selling via an auction house? I only have about six bottles.

Thanks

jal · Post by **jal** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:10 pm

I use Zachys auctions, Tim. I think they would take 6 bottles of Lafite without a problem, I have no experience selling with anyone else.

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:35 pm

Zachy's and HDH will both take your 6 Lafite and volunteer a reduced commission even (ask for even a bigger cut. Can't hurt).

sdr · Post by **sdr** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:09 pm

Acker has a 0% seller's commission. Hard to beat that.

I had a bottle of 1990 Domaine Leroy RSV I bought on release in 1994 last Saturday that was mediocre at best. Maybe just an off bottle, but a previous one a few years ago was very good but not fantastic. Selling the rest is an easy decision.

But '82 Lafite - that's about as good as it gets for my taste. Maybe sell one bottle and buy a Hyundi or something.

And my wife can always sell it after I'm gone for $250,000 each or whatever it wiill be worth then.

I still cringe whenever I remember I sold a few bottles of '82 Petrus in the late '80s for the astronomical amount of $550 each. I bought them from Zachy's on release for $185. I was thrilled to triple my investment back then but I sure wish I had them back.

Stuart

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:06 am

1990 Leroy RSV should have been outstanding. But, then, I have never (well, hardly ever) had a Leroy wine that had a reasonable QPR.

Lafite 1982--well, that is completely different!

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