TN: 1996 Carillon Puligny Montrachet Les Perrieres

[Claret]

The premoxed white Burg issue really sucks. I am down to a measly 9 bottles remaining and have been experiencing poor results lately. My days of buying white Burgundy are over.

The first sign of trouble on this bottle was the peroxide bleached cork with the telltale gray/blue coloring on the bottom, and then when I poured the first glass the dreaded gold color was apparent. I am convinced that the peroxide bleached corks are at least part of the problem. Yes, this bottle was affected, although not totally shot.

This tastes like a bottle that is five years older than it should be, with good acidity and nice minerality. At this time it is not unpleasant just a bit too geriatric. Drink 'em now.

[PappaDoc]

Bummer Glenn,

It was a beauty in its' youth. Don't give up on White Burgs, just don't age them past 6 years anymore and you should be alright. I drink a White burg at least twice a month, I'm down to my last two btls of 2002 (Corton Charlie- H. Boillot and Meursault Perrieres-Matrot). I've found the 04s to be drinking quite well right now, the 06s starting to drink, and most of the 05s needing another two years.

I posted a couple of months back about some great Chablis, Raveneau 2001 Montee and Butteaux, and Dauvissat 2001 "La Forest". All are drinking well right now with the La Forest needing lots of air or an hour in a decanter to really unfold.

The two 2000s I have I'm wary about, Raveneau 2000 "Vaillons" and Puligny Montrachet "Le Cailleret" Domaine de Montille. I will open them at home to make certain they aren't suffering from Premox. I did drink a 95 Raveneau Butteaux in Dec with Gio and a couple of Buddies from Zachys. It was fine but the 01 Montee served along side bested it for most of us.

[PappaDoc]

Carillon has always been in my top five White Burg Producers and Perrieres along with Referts are favs. Of course his Bienvenue is to die for if one is lucky enough to drink one. Last one I drank was the 99 brought to Jackdaws home a month ago by Jil & Jacques, many thanks, (along with an 03 Chevy from Domaine Leflaive, the Carillon was better)

I was lucky enough to buy two btls of the 03 Bienvenue at a store in Puligny that Ben Nelson had put me onto. Only 250 to 300 btls maxium are made each year. Only 24 btls come into the retali market in the US and are scooped up by retailers that drink rather then sell them.

The other times I've drunk the Carillon Bienvenue were from Ben Nelsons collection. Ben buys at auctions all over the world for this wine. He partners with two other guys, one is a partner in Cru and the other fellow is a major collector. They combinded may have more of this wine than anyone else world wide. I've had four different vintages thanks to Ben and it is without a doubt the finest Bienvenue produced.

[stefan]

Too bad, Glenn. Mature Carillon is so good when the bottle is sound.

stefan

[jal]

I am a big fan of Carillon but I have had more premox trouble with their wines than any other (save maybe Ramonet and Bonneau du Martray). Pappa is right; drink them young.

[Claret]

Yes, this was a very dissapointing experience, as previous bottles drank just fine. I have one left and it will be opened soon enough.

The thing that really urkes me about this whole premox issue is the attitude of the the producers. They have been very slow to acknowlege this problem and even slower to find a cure. When will the problem end? To me it is not worth the gamble. John, I appreciate your advice on drinking them young, but I tend to like them with some more bottle age.

Latley I have been restricting my modest Chardonnnay purchases to California and Oregon Dijon clones, and really enjoying the Dehlinger wines from the RRV. They float my boat and are very relaible. A friend opened 2003 Pahlmeyer last week and it was very good with a clear Napa taste, but I would not buy them at what I am sure is too high of a price.

[sdr]

Carillon is number two on my disaster list for prem-ox producers, right behing the champ, Colin-Deleger, with Sauzet a half-length behind.

Aging white burgs for no longer than 6 years is not an option for me - the complexity and nuance of great burgs takes more time than that. I too stopped buying any of them several years ago and now pour about one third of the ones I have down the sink ('95, '96, '99, '00). I have a lot of '02s, though, which I have not even begun to try and it sounds like they are headed for the drain as well.

I switched my allegiance to champagne once I realized it ages and develops surprisingly well. As for Cal chard, my go-to choice is Ramey, especially the Hyde vineyard version. Very Puligny in style and ready to drink from day 1.

~stuart

[Comte Flaneur]

Fortunately my last bottle of the 1997 was not corked...although golden it was a cracker:

From Feb '09: Carillon Puligny Montrachet Les Combettes 1997 - quite evolved colour; rich full-bodied, citrus and exotic fruit with an element of Puligny terroir - marvellous and no sign of prem-ox - 93

Some of the previous ones were a bit dodgy though

[sdr]

Slightly off topic, but my bottle last night of 1996 Leflaive BBM was a goner, despite my best wishful thinking. When I first opened it, everything seemed OK, even wonderful. It may have been my imagination, but it seemed to get darker by the minute as it sat in the glass, rapidly descending into the valley of death.

~stuart

[Winona Chief]

This is so sad about white Burgundy - I used to just love them. I bought a lot of 1996s and have had a lot of bad luck with them. I'm with Stuart now - I drink Champagne as my dry white wine.

Chris Bublitz

[stefan]

I can't give up white Burgundy completely, but now we drink them young. Lucie and I drank tonight an '02 Fevre Bougros that was singing. Still, if it avoids premox, this wine will be better in five years. But I won't know, as we have now drunk our last bottle.

stefan

[PappaDoc]

I drank a Raveneau 1995 Butteaux this past Dec and it was holding strong. What is most surprising is none of the 1992 White Burgs, including every Colin Deleger Premire Cru were just fine in 2002, almost ten years after the vintage.

The 92 Vintage was very ripe, some 1er wines having the volume of Grand Crus, a quality not usually given to long life. I'm certain the cause of Premox will be found and a solution taken.

Two years ago I hosted a Burg tasting at Cafe Loup. Kevin O' Conel brought an 85 Robert Arnoux White burg that was stunning and full of life. Then again Arnoux picks early to keep acids high, and does "late release" on his wines.

Could be that too many producers are going to "uber ripeness" while harvesting.

Lastly suggest Wiki "White Burgundy Oxidation" to find out which have failed the test of time and which have survived.

As with Stefan, I'm now drinking White Burgs at 5-8 years out max.

[Claret]

My only Raveneau is the 1999 Butteaux. My fingers are crossed for a good bottle.

[PappaDoc]

Glenn,

I tasted it three months ago, drink now. We opend three btls two were fine, one was starting to go.

[Claret]

Thanks John, I will retrieve it on my next trip to the locker.