How bad is the 2012 vintage?

[JimHow]

From what I can see, the prices of even the top names -- even the first growths -- are approachable.
He Who Shall Remain Nameless rates a lot of these wines in the low 90s, wines like Ducru, Cos , Barton, etc., wines that can be bought for $60-70ish. Even some if the first growth can be had for under $300. Is this a vintage to consider?

[DavidG]

I'm done buying Bordeaux, but this could be a Jim How vintage: lower prices, less ripeness, less hype from the critics.

[Tom In DC]

How did you like 2008, Jim? It sounds like it might be a similar vintage.

[JimHow]

Not real thrilled with 2008, Tom, including an '08 Gruaud Larose uncorked the other night.

[pomilion]

Not real thrilled with 2008, Tom, including an '08 Gruaud Larose uncorked the other night.

2008 overall is a very mediocre, uneven vintage, imo. Obviously there are exceptions, but a majority of the wines are under-fruited and at least appear to be overly acidic (have no idea about the technical acidity numbers, but having gone to the UGC 2008 tasting and having separately had numerous 2008s, that's my general impression).

[Nicklasss]

Please, do not tell me that 2008 (Simone's birth year) and 2012 are bad.

Come on, they are the most inexpensive vintages in a long time. This is due to market/economy condition, not quality of the vintage...

From 2008 I bought Malarctic Lagravière, Calon Segur, Lafleur Pétrus (isn't Pomerol AWESOME in 2008?), Léoville Barton and ... A certain Lafite Rothschild.

From 2012 I bought only Malartic Lagravière and Beauséjour Duffau.

Somethings have to be good, in these, Please!

Nic

[pomilion]

Nic -- 2008's not a horrid vintage, it's just mediocre and uneven. It was apparently more promising from barrel -- a variety of critics including Parker were very high on the vintage then sharply revised their in-bottle scores lower. All I can tell you is that I haven't been bowled over by a single '08. I bought a decent amount because of the prices and early barrel reviews -- including Pontet Canet, Clinet, Le Gay, Pavie Macquin and Tertre Roteboeuf. More recently I picked up a case of Canon La Gaffeliere, which is a very solid wine at a reasonable price (have had it several times -- both times it reminded me slightly of Angelus). Pomerol was indeed supposed to be awesome in 2008... from barrel -- many critics then downgraded the wines from bottle. I haven't sold any of my 2008s because I think the ones I chose -- and probably the ones you chose as well -- will be good, solid wines. But I'm not expecting any of them to outshine the '05s, '09s or '10s.

[marcs]

Ah, 2012 is my son's birth year, which has been challenging. The issue isn't just whether some of the wines might be good, but whether they can last 25 years until he grows up. I'm betting that the top wines in even a mediocre Bordeaux vintage can last that long these days, so I picked him up a half case of 2012 left bankers -- Leoville Las Cases, Cos d'Estournel, and Mouton Rothschild. Hopefully he won't be over 30 by the time he wants to appreciate good wine.

Re 2008, I can't speak to the vintage generally, but I had the 2008 Pichon Baron and it was fantastic. Not just good, borderline great. I had it against the 2009 PB and thought the 2008 was just as good -- not nearly as big and bold, but much better balanced and more elegant, with no lack of fullness either. I do suspect it will shut down for a while though.

[Chateau Vin]

For my older son's birth year, I picked up a mixed case of 08s - LynchB, PC, LLC, Cos, etc...Also, thinking of few 08 Barolos also. But I still need to pick up '12 year wines for my second son's birth year. Marcs picks are fantastic and should last that long, but I am also thinking of some CA wines since 2012 is supposedly a fantastic vintage in Napa...

[marcs]

2008 is supposed to be an excellent vintage in Barolo and those wines are barely getting started at 20 years old, great choice.

I was thinking of trying to find some 2012 Napa too, but I have doubts in the ability of Napa cab to last 20-25 years, seems to me that they are usually starting downhill at around 15 years. But I don't know aged California as well as some others, that has just been my experience.

[Chateau Vin]

2008 is supposed to be an excellent vintage in Barolo and those wines are barely getting started at 20 years old, great choice.

I was thinking of trying to find some 2012 Napa too, but I have doubts in the ability of Napa cab to last 20-25 years, seems to me that they are usually starting downhill at around 15 years. But I don't know aged California as well as some others, that has just been my experience.

True that....

Gurus on the forum can elaborate, but I am thinking few producers such Dunn HW, Ridge Montebello, would foot the bill in terms of their longevity...

[DavidG]

Nic, I can't offer any advice on Barolos - don't know anything about them. If you are looking for Bdx, however, I can vouch for the 2008 Leoville Poyferre. Very nice wine in a very irregular vintage, and one that should last another 20 years.