Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
- JimHow
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Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
…We will soon find out.
The 2012 GPL has been uncorked….
The 2012 GPL has been uncorked….
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
I bet it surprises you. I thought the 2005 was pretty darn good so maybe they've got the monkey off their shoulder. Can't wait to read first impression.
Danny
- robertgoulet
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
It's good not sure if it's great
Had the clos marsalette '12 last night.....a wonderful nose, minerals minerals minerals, stony, dark fruits, on the palate there is not much complexity, but the crisp acid gave it a nice lift. The wine went down so easy that it kept me returning for another pour. Not bad for $25, I would purchase again.
Had the clos marsalette '12 last night.....a wonderful nose, minerals minerals minerals, stony, dark fruits, on the palate there is not much complexity, but the crisp acid gave it a nice lift. The wine went down so easy that it kept me returning for another pour. Not bad for $25, I would purchase again.
- JimHow
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
I want to like it Danny.
The nose is pleasant, it displays some nice Pauillac pencil shavings and cedar.
The nose is pleasant, it displays some nice Pauillac pencil shavings and cedar.
- JimHow
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
This is nice, I agree with Bobby G, it is not "great" but for the first time in a long time I'm finding myself saying, gee, this GPL doesn't suck. (Actually, Marcus's 2009 was good at the DC convention, although I thought the 2010 was weak.)
Let's see how the 2012 GPL holds up to food.
Let's see how the 2012 GPL holds up to food.
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
Is 2012 a modern-day version of 1985?
- hautbrionlover
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
i haven't had any post-1996 GPLs yet, but i have heard that the '14 and '15 are very good.
- JimHow
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
struggling to give this 90 points...
- JimHow
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
I have twice had the 1985 Grand Puy Lacoste: In 2002 brought to dinner in Napa, California, by Jean Nicolas Maltais, and again in 2016, in Nashville, Tennessee, brought to dinner by… Jean Nicolas Maltais. I have had numerous vintages of Grand Puy Lacoste and have come out well documented on record that I have been very concerned about the quality of GPL post-1996, indeed, I have said this wine has totally SUCKED since 1996. I've been drinking several (mostly right bank) 2012s and have thus far been very impressed with the vintage. I have found it very forthcoming, without a doubt, very forward, very aromatic, floral, light on its feet. Medium bodied. 13.5-14.5% alcohol levels, but not intrusive alcohol. Nonetheless, I would not characterize the vintage as soft or light. There is good structure there. Not highly acidic but velvety tannins nonetheless that will allow for aging of 10-15/20 years. And the pricing: It's interesting, He Who Shall Remain Nameless said in his 4/15 edition that 2012 is "overpriced." Yet: Barde Haut ($26); La Fleur de Bouard ($29); Corbin ($29); Haut Bergey ($22)… Etc. I mean, quality Bordeaux in the $20-something price range. Overpriced? Really? This 2012 GPL was $49. Now, we can debate whether this wine is worth $49, but when is the last time you saw any GPL, let a lone a "good" one, at $49? They're usually at least $25-50 more. The 2012 GPL: For a while I was genuinely worried we were facing another 1999/2000/2003 GPL catastrophe. It was solid on the nose from the get-go, a good sign. Good Pauillac notes on the nose, Cedar, lead pencil, cassis, etc. But it seemed alarmingly soft at the outset, in a 1999 kind of way. But it evolved nicely through the evening. To me, this is a classic reason why it is no big sin to drink a Bordeaux in its infancy. Rather than sinking to the disastrous 1999 GPL levels, I thought it reminded me more of that 1985 GPL, floral, medium bodied, charming, true to its name, etc. THE BIG QUESTION: Is the success of the 2012 GPL attributable to the winemaking at the property (I'm skeptical), or is it attributable to the strength of what I think is a hugely underrated 2012 vintage (more likely, in my book)? In the end, I liked this GPL, I'm glad I have one more bottle, I might even buy another bottle or two… something I haven't said about GPL in at least 15 years. I'll score it 90 points for now.
Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
There is some interview with Neil Martin out there where he states that VCC and GPL have both had some of the most consistent wine making methods, and have been very resistant to fads. I've not tasted recent years - current releases seem a touch richly priced to me.
Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
I'm with you on the estate. I really haven't had any Grand Puy Lacoste that I liked. Maybe the 1996 but even that was worse than other Pauillacs in the same price range (then) like Lynch Bages and Pontet Canet. I have even disliked the 1982 with its roasted aromas. I sold my 2000s after tasting, and the 2009 is a wine I disliked immensely.
There are so many other wines I can see myself spending money on, why take the risk with an estate I know is not to my liking?
There are so many other wines I can see myself spending money on, why take the risk with an estate I know is not to my liking?
Best
Jacques
Jacques
- robertgoulet
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
Wow Jim I thought 2010 GPL was outstanding as was the entire stable....a stand out wine
Hmmmm
Hmmmm
- JimHow
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
Maybe the bottle of 2010 GPL that Marcus brought to DC was just an off bottle, Bobby G, but I don't think either of us thought so. It was showing absolutely nothing, and I'm not just talking about the nothingness of a wine that has shut down.
Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
I have mixed feelings about GPL. I want to like it, it is the "Poor man's Latour" after all. But the profile can be a little stolid in some vintages and the performance is quite variable.
That said, I've loved the 1982, 1990, 1995 and 2005 (I own some 2010 but I'm waiting on those before trying). The 1996 has started to show better too in the last year after a lean, weedy period. But the 1983, 1989, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2009 all left me cold or disappointed. The jury is still out on the 2000, but the bottle Winona Chief and I had last year at a GPL vertical in Denver was a bit overdone with oak and sur maturite (I have seen Bordeaux pull through this though with more age).
Jim is right though that GPL went through a weird period from 1999-2004 at least. The 2001 is a real lightweight, pleasant but hollow. The 2003 was a trainwreck for a long while, though I hear reports it is showing better these days. The 2005 was a home run on release, but I need to revisit it (FWIW HWSRNL last year downgraded the 2005 to 92 pts from 95 pts in his 10-year retrospective of the 2005 vintage).
Certainly doesn't have the consistency of other chateau like Sociando Mallet or Cantemerle.
That said, I've loved the 1982, 1990, 1995 and 2005 (I own some 2010 but I'm waiting on those before trying). The 1996 has started to show better too in the last year after a lean, weedy period. But the 1983, 1989, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2009 all left me cold or disappointed. The jury is still out on the 2000, but the bottle Winona Chief and I had last year at a GPL vertical in Denver was a bit overdone with oak and sur maturite (I have seen Bordeaux pull through this though with more age).
Jim is right though that GPL went through a weird period from 1999-2004 at least. The 2001 is a real lightweight, pleasant but hollow. The 2003 was a trainwreck for a long while, though I hear reports it is showing better these days. The 2005 was a home run on release, but I need to revisit it (FWIW HWSRNL last year downgraded the 2005 to 92 pts from 95 pts in his 10-year retrospective of the 2005 vintage).
Certainly doesn't have the consistency of other chateau like Sociando Mallet or Cantemerle.
Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
GPL is to Pauillac as Beychevelle is to St Julien.
I've never had a bottle of either that was stunning.
I've never had a bottle of either that was stunning.
Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
If you haven't in the last 5 years, you should try the 82, 83, 85 and 86 Beychevelles. I think they're singing right now, the 82 might even get better still for my mileage. Art says great things about the 88 as well.
If you don't think those are great Beychevelles, than its definitely not your cuppa (and I'll buy any you have!).
If you don't think those are great Beychevelles, than its definitely not your cuppa (and I'll buy any you have!).
- robertgoulet
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
I loved '95 GPL
- robertgoulet
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
'88Beychevelle was just pretty good to me.
- JimHow
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
yes but have you loved any GPL since 95. I say no.
I see the markets are interested in 12 GPL… I set the markets again.
Are there any other wines you guys want the scoop on?
Seriously, guys, don't ignore those '12s.
I see the markets are interested in 12 GPL… I set the markets again.
Are there any other wines you guys want the scoop on?
Seriously, guys, don't ignore those '12s.
Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
How's the 2012 du Tertre, Jim? I have a soft spot for this chateau.
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
We loved the wine when we had a very lovely lunch at the property last May.
So much so that it was a serious contender for wine of the year.
Our visit to du Tertre was one of the highlights of the trip.
I haven't had it since. Gerry M is holding six bottles for me.
So much so that it was a serious contender for wine of the year.
Our visit to du Tertre was one of the highlights of the trip.
I haven't had it since. Gerry M is holding six bottles for me.
Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
The 2005 GPL blew me away a couple of years ago -- tremendous wine -- but more recent bottles have been shut down. I think that one will re emerge. I hope so, it's the wine that got me to blow some serious $ on a half case each of the 2005, 2009 and 2010.
The 2000 GPL had a bad rep for a while but recently has been getting much better reviews on CT. I have four bottles.
I think GPL takes a while to come around. At least that is my bet since as you can see I am long GPL. Maybe I should try to sell some
The 2000 GPL had a bad rep for a while but recently has been getting much better reviews on CT. I have four bottles.
I think GPL takes a while to come around. At least that is my bet since as you can see I am long GPL. Maybe I should try to sell some
Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
Blanquito,
I would rate 1988 Beychevelle as the best wine I have tried from this estate, and an over-achiever for the often-forgotten vintage.
In many vintages, even the older ones (60s, 70s) it can be light and lacking complexity.
The last vintage I bought of it was 1990, and that was a rather simple and slightly green wine.
I think like others I have never really been a lover of GPL though I do recall the 90 being a very good wine.
I would rate 1988 Beychevelle as the best wine I have tried from this estate, and an over-achiever for the often-forgotten vintage.
In many vintages, even the older ones (60s, 70s) it can be light and lacking complexity.
The last vintage I bought of it was 1990, and that was a rather simple and slightly green wine.
I think like others I have never really been a lover of GPL though I do recall the 90 being a very good wine.
Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
I guess I'm an outlier. I like the estate. We had a vertical at some point and there were a lot of good vintages.
1990 really stuck out for me, and I'd hoped 2003 would turn out like that.
But sometimes the son's fastball doesn't zip like dad's, as Nolan Ryan's offspring can attest.
So $100 for a good young modern vintage? Hmmm. there's a lot of great and rare wines that would get priority for me.
1990 really stuck out for me, and I'd hoped 2003 would turn out like that.
But sometimes the son's fastball doesn't zip like dad's, as Nolan Ryan's offspring can attest.
So $100 for a good young modern vintage? Hmmm. there's a lot of great and rare wines that would get priority for me.
- AlohaArtakaHoundsong
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
I preferred Jim's '95 GPL to his RP 100-pt '96 Lafite, on that day. Would be interesting to repeat the encounter another time.
I like the 2003 GPL a lot, the last couple of bottles. On release it came across as simple and grapey.
My opinion of the '88 Beychevelle has been accurately stated above. I thought the 2000 was very nice from the get-go; haven't tried it in recent memory.
I like the 2003 GPL a lot, the last couple of bottles. On release it came across as simple and grapey.
My opinion of the '88 Beychevelle has been accurately stated above. I thought the 2000 was very nice from the get-go; haven't tried it in recent memory.
- robertgoulet
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
I did like the '96 GPL but the '95 is a notch above
'12 du tertre was just OK a year ago, but I think these '12's are getting better in the bottle so I will reserve judgement.
'12 du tertre was just OK a year ago, but I think these '12's are getting better in the bottle so I will reserve judgement.
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
The '95 GPL is the best GPL ever.
The '12 GPL was impressive the other night.
The '12 du Tertre was very lovely at the estate, I'm sure it is settling in in bottle.
The '12 GPL was impressive the other night.
The '12 du Tertre was very lovely at the estate, I'm sure it is settling in in bottle.
Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
2003 and 2005 GPL have been superb. No regrets other than I don't have enough in the cellar. I can't imagine that they could have screwed up in stellar back to back vintages 2009/10.
12 du Tertre is beautiful elegant and well structured 4 weeks ago. Definitely on the feminine side with present tannins but I I certainly wouldn't put this in the realm of just OK Bobby G! This should have been the wine of the year last year for the emotion of the Chateau visit alone.
12 du Tertre is beautiful elegant and well structured 4 weeks ago. Definitely on the feminine side with present tannins but I I certainly wouldn't put this in the realm of just OK Bobby G! This should have been the wine of the year last year for the emotion of the Chateau visit alone.
Danny
- JimHow
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Re: Will 2012 GPL suck as bad as the other post-1996 GPLs?
Du Tertre was a victim of its own success in the contest for last year's wine of the year, having already previously won the award with the 2000.
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