Ch Lagrange St Julien under or over performer....

[CJD]

I say Over but qpr is a big component. I first got switched on to St Julien in the form of 1989 Beychevelle. In its youth, a to die for wine with all the AOC typicity but with less power than the leovils & balanced finesse in spades. Around that time, early 90s , I happened upon a stash of 85 & 86 Lagrange , 3 cases of each & they were superb. Structured, savory rich fruited more brutal than the finessed beych. But none the less for it.
A decade on I enjoyed some of the 90s, I still have a doubt over their 96. I bought a couple of cases of the 2000, my first child’s birth year. A wine yet to be broached though the reviews are good & improving, so will share with her this Christmas. A recent 1998, dark fruited, full bodied,barn, saddle, savory not at all light like a lot of left bank ‘98s. Delicious.
The ‘85 ‘86 were super. The ‘88 is still going strong & I like it. 89 didn’t quite match the st jul neighborhood.
If you haven’t tasted the 1990 thou, it’s a 95 point wine.
An ‘01 disappeared fast on a recent Friday evening, 02 needs time, ‘03 I enjoyed a lot on numerous occasions . 05 I found too polished for current consumption.(are they all slightly hollow in the middle?)
So back to $. You can pick up most recent & old lesser for $50. Good value in my book. The top years are still less than $100. In 2000, Gruaud beats it, I think.
So, I commend Lagrange for delivering an ocean of high quality st jul. at a great price, something every cru classe used to be able to do until they started cropping.
Or am I over glamorizing,blinkered by those 85’86’90s

[JimHow]

Yes, I thought the 2006 we had recently was really nice.
I remember several of us here drinking the 2000 from half bottles just after release and really liking it.
Was Parker down on this property for a while, like with Gruaud, Talbot, and Beychevelle?

[Comte Flaneur]

I have a love hate relationship with this property, and particularly with the 1996 vintage, which at its best can go toe-toe with Leoville Lascases. I suspect the 2016 is the best wine this estate ever produced. But it is down my pecking order in St-J. Give me Talbot over Lagrange most days, and it is not as consistent as the Bartons.

[CJD]

Interesting. I’ve had such variation with the 1996.
Absolutely agree with the superiority of the Leovils but for a lot more $. Beychevelle seems to have moved up the pyramid. Talbot I gave up on after the lovely ‘00.
Again I come back to qpr. A recent ‘98 for $45 delivered the goods, few left banks do at that price.
It’s not first growth, it does deliver grand cru, ages tremendously, alc in the 13% range with a nod to tradition.
I like it.

[AKR]

They make good wine -- and I still have a bunch of 1996 -- but I never really find them thrilling other than the 1990. I drank a bunch of the 2000 in its first ten years, and thought it was better on the younger side, personally, so unless its awkward to retrieve your case, I think you should check in with that year.

[Nicklasss]

Good topic CJD.

I think Chateau Lagrange is just an excellent performer for the price. Not over, not under. Let says it is the ''Sociando Mallet of Saint-Julien''.

If I think of the more recent vintages I had in the last years, 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2006 have all been very satisfying. I did not had the 2005 (I own some) or younger vintages than 2006.

In the last 4-5 vintages, the price went up a bit but very ok when you compare to some other properties.

Nic

[Blanquito]

Pre-1986, Under
1986-1990, Over.
1995-2000, Push or Over.
2001-present, Under.

[Nicklasss]

Blanquito, which vintages of the 2001-present did you tried? Is Lagrange for you is like GPL for Jim?

Comte, Langoa better or more consistent than Lagrange? I have a very limited experiençe with Langoa. I had the 2002 and 2003 Langoa and while good, i preferred the Lagrange in those same vintages.

I did not bought any 2016. Maybe I should have.

Nic

[JimHow]

I think one of my favorite post 2000 vintages of Lagrange is the 2007.

[Ognik]

under....and out.
Never ever reached possible top performance.
1990 and 1996 showed glance of potential.
Unfortunately no progress last 20 yrs i'm afraid.
I am through.

[marcs]

An underperformer for its classification. Probably fairly priced given that it is usually under $50 and is a solid enough wine if unexciting.

I went to a long vertical of Lagrange and enjoyed the 2000, 2009, and 2015, but did not come away from the vertical wanting to buy any Lagrange. Those verticals are very telling, there is a sharp division between the wines I come away wanting to purchase and the wines I don't. So far I came away from the Pichon Lalande and Conseillante verticals wanting to buy, and the Lagrange and Poyferre verticals left me totally uninterested in buying from that producer. (And in the Poyferre case somewhat motivated to sell my holdings). That's especially telling since PLL and Conseillante are the more expensive ones.

[Claudius2]

Folks
When Marcel Ducasse took over Lagrange in 1983, really thought it could come to the front of the appellation over time.
I thought 88 and 90 were excellent wines, yet since then, I have found it a bit variable.
I liked the 96 and 06, and I've been quaffing the 07 lately as I bought it cheap at auction and it is a solid performer for that vintage.

One limitation of the vineyard is its location. It is some distance from the river and not really well placed compared to the Leovilles or Ducru. It is near the border of St Julien and St Laurent Medoc.
https://wcicdn-thewinecellarins.netdna- ... hateau.pdf
Another factor is the size of the estate. It is around 280 acres, and I really wonder if it is an issue.

So it is a value only when it does well, and I stopped buying it en primeur after 2006.

[JimHow]

I liked the 96 and 06, and I've been quaffing the 07 lately as I bought it cheap at auction and it is a solid performer for that vintage.

Indeed.

[CJD]

I started so I should prob finish.
To get a good feeler for the joys of St Julien, Lagrange delivers for me. If I want to pay $100 a bottle and upwards I am spoilt for choice with the Barton’s, Beychevelle’s or $150+ for the las cases & ducru. Or indeed any of the illustrious neighbors a short drive north.
Has it improved? Not in the 90s or 00s. Maybe in more recent vintages, I haven’t tasted, though it does take a good decade to come round.
However, improvement in Bordeaux comes at such cost. A robotic formula of lower yields, concentration , less case production, more average less desirable second wine & all at a higher cost to allocated vendors.
Shouldn’t we be celebrating the occasional purveyor that still shoots for high quality and delivers an ocean of it at a good price. I say we need more of this kind of grand cru Bordeaux approach as Aoc’s morph into the indistinguishable & warming temperatures bestow a more Napa like vineyard fruit.

[hautbrionlover]

Personally, I think that Lagrange is a lovely wine that offers great QPR.
While I don’t know that anything has equalled the ‘90 and ‘96 for me (although the ‘16 might also be a winner), I still enjoy it very much and buy it fairly often.

[Claret]

I enjoyed the 89,90 and 96. My single 86 is still snoozing.

[Racer Chris]

I have a single 2010 (paid $60) resting in the cellar, my first and only contact with this wine.
Winesearcher says NH Liquor Outlets have some of the 2014 at $33.49 right now.
The 2016 is getting great reviews on CellarTracker. Available in NH for $61.
My budget is maxxed out well into the future anyway so I would only buy if it practically fell into my lap.

[JimHow]

I got one bottle of the 2014 in N.H. at that $33 price.
I bought a bottle of the 2016 at MacArthur’s for $50 and drank it in the name of science, it may be the best Lagrange ever.

[AKR]

2000 was a pretty good Lagrange, I liked it more in the first ten years than now.

CJD has a good point - diversity in that AOC is good for everyone.

[Nicklasss]

CJD for BD!

Don't expect any red Bordeaux to try to be perfect like God. Let every red Bordeaux to be true and themselve, like Chateau Lagrange.

Another red Bordeaux in that league: La Lagune.

Nic

[Claudius2]

Nicklass,
Given a forced choice, I's generally prefer La Lagune over Lagrange, though I am happy to drink either.
Some of my fondest vinous memories are with 82 and 83 La Lagune.
I did not buy it for some time but have bought cases of 2009, 2010 and 2016.

[Nicklasss]

Hi Claudius2.

I also bought some 2016 La Lagune, and I'm considering seriously to buy some 2017 as well. Me too i like the classicism of La Lagune.

Nic