FRANCE 2020

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:44 pm

Tim, Danny, so sorry to hear of your medical and personal setbacks. I hope you get through them intact and as quickly as possible.

I don’t get the personal attacks and hope we can all just cut each other a little slack. Chalk it up to the lack of non-verbal cues or other stresses, whatever.

As much as the former Bordeaux trips were a dream (one in person and one vicariously), I’ll be sitting this one out. That many tastings and meals over the course of a week are simply not enjoyable to me any more. The toll on my physiology is just too much. It doesn’t mean I don’t love you guys or that I won’t miss you or be wishing I could be there. If my decision actually offends you, I guess that’s on you.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:55 pm

Unless cancer or Lucie kills me before March, I am in. Lucie will come regardless, although under the second alternative above she might need Jim's help in getting a judge who will allow her to leave the country.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:08 pm

i too can’t take 24 chateaux in a week anymore.
I suggest we come in on Monday, do a Monday evening dinner, do three properties, a lunch, and dinner each day from Tuesday through Friday, and leave on Saturday. That is 12 properties, a hefty schedule.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:51 pm

Weirdly enough our Chief Economist just got back from a trip to Paris and Bordeaux.

Neither of us had realized we were both enthusiasts.

He said he particularly liked St Emilion and Fronsac for his visits.

He could not remember which estates specifically he'd visited, since he'd had some tour packager arrange things, and I suppose the wine sampling part of the jaunts was more important than the cellar elevage, vineyard soils expository etc.

The TGV had quite impressed him too.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:01 pm

It takes 2h 4 mins, to travel the 595 kilometres from Paris to Bordeaux on the TGV.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:08 pm

How much is corkage on the Paris-Bordeaux TGV?

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:43 pm

stefan wrote:How much is corkage on the Paris-Bordeaux TGV?

I like how you roll.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:25 am

I am still in favor of doing meals at chateaux. For me, those are the most memorable events of every trip. But I will defer to the masses.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:28 am

Agreed.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:46 am

+2 (never done a meal at a Chateau, but sounds like the best). Via projection, I still think about the BWE dinner at Chateau Margaux.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:38 am

So, my recommended agenda would be:

Morning visit and tasting, lunch at chateau, afternoon visit and tasting, dinner at chateau

That is four in a day. If necessary, we can skip one per day. But as a reminder, we thought we were good scheduling a 3pm tasting at Ducru, and in fact we were late there because the visit and lunch at Pontet Canet lasted four hours.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:08 am

16 chateaux in 4 days.
On top of presumably lots of drinking in Paris on the bookend weekends, the big Monday night welcome dinner in Bordeaux, etc.
I'll go with the flow, but that's a lot.
When do I get my afternoon nap?
I like liesurely vacations.
One of my favorite days in 2015 was when we did two chateaux (including Margaux) and had a nice dinner in Bordeaux.
How about taking one or two of those days and doing just three chateaux?

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:01 am

Jim
Sounds like a good idea.
I think some of us (me included) have to accept that age is catching up, and in any case, it is usually better to relax and take your time rather than trying to cram as much into the time as possible.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:59 am

Yes, and if Stefan has cancer then 2020 (in DC) will be my last convention!
And if Lucie kills him first I will defend her zealously!
I’ll start a separate thread seeking commitments for that last week of March.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:22 pm

I had posted a separate thread for the week of March 23-28, but isn't that the big week week in Bordeaux?

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:56 pm

Since I have only half a stomach, three-four hours for lunch and three-four hours for dinner sound very good to me. If that cuts out visiting some cellars and walking the grounds, all the better. I like listening to and speaking with winemakers, but prefer doing that while tasting with them. Anyway, fewer visits are fine with me, and if we have more visits, I will just spit more.

CJD · Post by **CJD** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:52 pm

I’m in.
Not one to admit to getting older but......if I could also lobby for a more leisurely agenda. Having a free afternoon midweek away from the vineyards would help reboot the system also.
Some Château lunch/dinners a must.
Otherwise good to go with the flow.
CJ

Michael-P · Post by **Michael-P** » Sun Aug 25, 2019 8:33 pm

1 - Count Nalan and I in the attendee list.

2 - I hope everyone, sarcastically or not, can stop abusing each other on this site, in particular on this topic.

3 - This kind of visit does take a lot of time for anyone to organize. Hopefully we can rally enough BWE-ers to put in the time to pull this together. I am happy to help however I can. There's only one or two chateaux in St Emilion that I might know well enough to get us in for a tasting, if people want me to do so.

4 - I like 5 full days but am seeing on this thread that others want less. I thought in 2015 that we had a half day on Weds. Is that enough reduction from 5 full days?

5 - I don't like splitting the group but we did that in 2005 for some chateaux on one day. That was to limit the group size I think.

Michael-P

tim · Post by **tim** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:50 pm

Hi Michael,

The only place that couldn't handle more than 10 people was Latour. We split the group for that, but everywhere else could handle 20.

And I wouldn't plan on going back to Latour now that we have done it.

tim · Post by **tim** » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:57 pm

An important question for France 2020:

In 2005 and 2015, we had several meals at Chateaux. As there are not many places that can host for meals, I'd like to know which if any stood out as places you would like to go again?

Obviously the dinner at Chateaux Margaux and the lunch at Pontet Canet cannot be replicated, as we were invited guests of the owners who provided us above and beyond experiences. I'm interested in hearing about the other places we ate.

Thanks!

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:50 am

Guys
I am definitely in but am asking for a more leisurely pace.
So can I make a suggestion.
Make the main events within a 4 day period and then have a few optional activities for those wanting to stay longer.
My wife Wendy may only be able to blow in for a shorter time in any case.
She was enticed by the idea of having events at famous Chateaux so I think she will try and find time.

We will both have quite a long way to travel though Air France these days has flights directly to Bordeaux.
Like a few others, I do have a few pressing health problems that are not going away which may limit what I can eat and how much I can drink.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:01 am

Looking forward to meeting you and your better half, Claudius.
Now we have to pick a week in March. If I'm not mistaken, the last week of March is not good.
Notwithstanding michael-P's preference for another 5-day, 24 chateaux event, I'm going to really press for a 4-day, 14-15 chateaux event.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:26 pm

Jim
I am sure you will enjoy her Oriental beauty and endless charm as much as I do.
Cheers

Michael-P · Post by **Michael-P** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:10 pm

It would be good to fix the week so we can start reaching out to folks we know.
Do we have input from the past planners on what the best week is? Alex, Tim, Ian?
Michael-P

tim · Post by **tim** » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:37 pm

We really need to confirm if Alex is on board to help.

CJD · Post by **CJD** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:07 am

Getting a little ahead of the game but for me,the joyful part, by appellation & considering previous visits, a dream week wish list to visit.
Cos or Montrose & Meyney
Beychevelle & Lagrange. Would also really enjoy leovil Barton but that’s been done. I think Beychevelle do the full hospitality package.
Lynch either of the pichons or Gruaud. Oh & Latour , yes please.
Palmer, d’issan
Haut brion or bailly
Across the river.
Belair monage....just to see how things are going!
Figeac, Canon la gaf, Canon
....that’s all for now

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:10 pm

I am still game. My main fear is that chateaux no longer want to welcome large groups ...or, are less amenable to doing so than last time, in 2015. I did arrange a few of the visits last time and there is only one way to find out. I can put some feelers out.

The trade tastings start on 3/30, so the week before that would be inadvisable. A middle week in March would be better. I was reading Jeff Leve’s Guide to visiting Bordeaux and he thinks mid-March is a good time to visit Bordeaux, not least because everyone is usually around.

CJD · Post by **CJD** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:36 am

Ok thought we were shooting for last week of March.
Cannot do week of 16th
Can do week before commencing 9th. Or 23rd

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:19 pm

CJD wrote:Getting a little ahead of the game but for me,the joyful part, by appellation & considering previous visits, a dream week wish list to visit.
Cos or Montrose & Meyney
Beychevelle & Lagrange. Would also really enjoy leovil Barton but that’s been done. I think Beychevelle do the full hospitality package.
Lynch either of the pichons or Gruaud. Oh & Latour , yes please.
Palmer, d’issan
Haut brion or bailly
Across the river.
Belair monage....just to see how things are going!
Figeac, Canon la gaf, Canon
....that’s all for now

And why not? Lafite, Mouton, Cheval Blanc, Ausone, Petrus, just wish it and it shall be done, all you need to do is book your plane ticket and show up.

CJD · Post by **CJD** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:13 pm

Ha
& ouch
Every now & again one needs to inject an element of hope into ones posts.
& why not too!
‘Book ticket & show up’ - isn’t it how it is for a new bwe?
Not inclined to read too much into the heavy sarcasm not having met.
Been to Bordeaux many times so more than capable of booking my own bdx trip if the numbers are too high for me to go with this group.

tim · Post by **tim** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:26 pm

There are some in that list that are doable (and always fun to go with our group!).

We've neglected St. Estephe in the past, so I think it is due. Among the firsts, we haven't yet been to Lafite or Mouton (Mouton is easy to arrange, Lafite not so much). And Beychevelle is a good suggestion for their ability to host a meal.
We've done Palmer, Lynch and LLC twice, so I'm a bit hesitant to do them again, unless we can arrange something special. I'd be tempted to do Pichon Baron again just because the experience was so outstanding last time.

Anyway, some thoughts.

Harry C. · Post by **Harry C.** » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:50 pm

The best of the not-chateau meals that I remember was the lunch at the restaurant at La Dominique. Amazing chicken.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:32 am

That lunch at La Dominique was definitely a highlight of the 2015 trip.

A framework schedule:

Monday, March 16: Arrive in Bordeaux, Monday night dinner in Bordeaux.
Tuesday, March 17: St. Estephe region: 4 of the following: Montrose, Cos d'Estournel, Lafon Rochet, Sociando Mallet, Meyney, Chasse, Haut Marbuzet, etc.
Wednesday, March 18: St. Emilion: Tour St. Christophe, Lunch at La Dominique again(?), etc. My only must-do for St. Emilion is to see the Kwoks at tour St. Christophe.
Thursday, March 19: Whatever you guys want, Graves, Margaux, St. Julien, etc.
Friday, March 20: Pauillac: What the heck, let's go to Mouton, let's finish up with dinner again at Pichon Baron, are we so bold/obnoxious as to impose on Alfred Tesseron again? What about Comtesse?

One of those days we visit only 3 properties, the other days we visit 4. That would be a total of 15 properties in 4 days, a full schedule.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:43 am

Jim, I would leave it to the organizers to set the schedule. Much depends on what the opportunities are.

St. Estephe and Pichon Baron, suggested also by Tim, sound very good. It might be right to do these the same day because of the geography.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:45 am

Oh totally agree stefan, I'll totally go with the flow.
Just an imagined schedule in my mind.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:49 am

I say we visit Pontet Canet but not ask Alfred to invite us for lunch, just go for a tasting of his latest vintages.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:23 am

If Saint-Estèphe is in the plan, please don't forget the heart label château.

We tasted so many Saint-Estèphe in BWE events, i think we really need to go in 2020.

Personally, i think Graves would be great, with Haut Bailly, Carmes Haut-Brion and diner at Pape Clément.

But if the organizers decide to do Haut-Bages Libéral, Batailley, Pédesclaux, and even Grand-Puy Lacoste one day, I'll go anyway.

Nic

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:43 pm

I knew I skipped one from St. Estephe.
Calon Segur is now becoming my favorite wine, I think I have more bottles of that in my cellar than any other estate.

Michael-P · Post by **Michael-P** » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:41 pm

I heard back from my St Emilion place:

I will be happy to help set up a tasting and if possible a lunch at Château for BWE’s next trip to Bordeaux. I am currently looking at options for lunch (dinner would be more complicated for us to organize) and will send over as soon as I get something good. Regarding a tasting, we would be happy to host a tasting of our Full Range (seven wines: our six reds and the white), the price is twenty-five euros per person, including the visit if the winery and cellar.

Michael-P

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:29 pm

I emailed Tim quite a while ago, re this, I am still waiting to hear back from him, no response yet.