The Pontet Canet thread

[Comte Flaneur]

Excuse me Jim if I get the ball rolling

Is Pontet Canet over-rated?

No not in my opinion. For example it is well above 5th growth quality, probably second growth quality. I would say the second best 5th growth after Lynch Bages?

Has Pontet Canet gone spoofulated?

No, not really, in my opinion. Just trying to make great wines with the best of modern and trad techniques, embracing organic & biodynamic agriculture. However the wines undoubtedly taste modern and err towards over rather than under ripeness, and they can come across as somewhat clinical. The winemaker Jean-Michel Comme is passionate about the wines but it not happy about Michel Rolland being a consultant.

What are the best vintages of Pontet Canet?

Of the ones I have tasted 2000, 2001, 2005 and 2009 - there is a big difference between these wines and the somewhat rustic by comparison wines from 1994-98, and the prehistoric wines before 1994.

I was a Pontet-Canet skeptic until we visited the estate five years ago. It is not my favourite estate but I do own bottles/cases of 1996, 2001, 2003, 2009, 2011, 2012 and 2015. The 1996 I have owned since release, the 2003 since it became BWE woty in 2006, the 2009 on release, the 2011 and 2012 on the strength of the samples we had at the estate and the 2001 after tasting it at Tim’s 50th in 2018. I purchased two bottles of the 2015 in a sale last year. I sold my case of 2004 7 or 8 years ago because I disliked it. It was too clinical and didn’t really taste like claret.

What are your views?

[stefan]

I was very impressed with Pontet Canet when we visited in 2015. Some recent vintages showed near First Growth quality. The last vintage I bought is 2009, but that is because of my age. If I am still around in ten years I'll buy more recent vintages. My more immediate plan is to pick up some from 2005 to 2008.

You did not mention 2002, but I also like this vintage, which I guess is a bit of a throwback.

[Blanquito]

Outside of the Timmy McCracken PC vertical in NYC (where we tasted up through the 02?), the only post-96 Pontet Canet vintages I’ve tried are the 02 and 03. Both of these are good wines, but lack the character and quality of the 95 and 96 in my experience. My last bottle of the 96 — tasted at Ian’s in Islington in April 2018 — seemed young still, at least next to a bunch of wines from the 80’s.

[JimHow]

I drank a case of the 1996 Pontet Canet, the best bottle was the last with Nicola a couple years ago in DC.
I actually had an ‘86 once that I really liked.
I always liked that 94/95/96 triumvirate, perhaps better than the modern Pontets.
At that vertical tasting we did with Alfred Tesseron in NYC I think the 2000 was the best.
The 2003 was great when it was young, a BWE wine of the year, but it has been variable at best as it has aged.
It went through an absolutely awful closed phase where it was completely disjointed and out of whack.
I’ve had some nice bottles of the ‘03 since and some not so nice bottles.
My concern with those more recent RMP100 Pontets of the past 15 years is that they lack personality, they are robotic, Parkerized, sure, they are technically very well made, but they are internationalized. They are to Pauillac what recent vintages of Smith Haut Lafitte have become to Pessac.

[OrlandoRobert]

I drank a case of the 1996 Pontet Canet, the best bottle was the last with Nicola a couple years ago in DC.
I actually had an ‘86 once that I really liked.
I always liked that 94/95/96 triumvirate, perhaps better than the modern Pontets.
At that vertical tasting we did with Alfred Tesseron in NYC I think the 2000 was the best.
The 2003 was great when it was young, a BWE wine of the year, but it has been variable at best as it has aged.
It went through an absolutely awful closed phase where it was completely disjointed and out of whack.
I’ve had some nice bottles of the ‘03 since and some not so nice bottles.
My concern with those more recent RMP100 Pontets of the past 15 years is that they lack personality, they are robotic . . . they are technically very well made, but they are internationalized. They are to Pauillac what recent vintages of Smith Haut Lafitte have become to Pessac.

The bolded part is my opinion, to a “T”. But, and this is an important but, so pardon me being an ass, I’d say last 20 years.

I had the 2003 Pontet Canet recently - at of all places, Bern’s - on a business dinner where a close friend who really only drinks Napa, wanted something new world. The 2003 PC does not drink like Bordeaux. I’ve had the 2004 and 2000 PC recently as well. Just not a fan at all. A wine of no distinction, and quite expensive for what you get. I know there was some criticism of GPL recently, I’d take this Paulliac over PC all day long. So many other great, classic Bordeaux available for less. I do not own a single PC.

Now that said, I find SHL undrinkable. I’ll drink a PC and just yawn. SHL is a total pass.

[Blanquito]

Robert, what do you think of the mid-90’s Pontet Canet? From your post, it sounds like you like them. I guess I’d be surprised if you don’t like the 95 and 96.

Totally agree with you on the SHL, no surprise there, but for my palate that’s one of the worst wines in Bordeaux and has been since 2000.

[OrlandoRobert]

Agreed. I’m with Jim, liked 94-96 very much. PC 94 was one of the better non-first growths, along with Leoville Barton.

IMHO, of course.

[jal]

It's so strange that you can drink GPL and not SHL. I find SHL vibrant and fresh with a strong core of fruit and some complexity. Yes all vintages since 1995. I do agree that it doesn't have much personality but neither do most Bordeaux wines after 1990 imho, still I'd be happy drinking it.

[Blanquito]

For me, the issue with SHL is first and foremost the level of new oak. I gag on that, sort of like how GPL’s roast is a turnoff for you, Jacques. Plus I find SHL uber glossy, a trait I find very boring in a wine (if not an outright flaw like excess new oak). Finally, I’ve found some vintages of SHL too sweet.

But I really like the 1995 SHL, which I’ve had on and off, most recently was Mr Vino’s magnum in Denver in 2018.

[jal]

I kind of like the gloss, but while I'm turned off by new oak, it never seemed to bother me in the Smith Haut Lafitte.

[DavidG]

I’m ok with some gloss and ripeness and will happily drink a modern Bordeaux if it’s not too over the top. Clearly there are different thresholds for that, which is what makes talking about these wines interesting. But power and ripe fruit without nuance are not Bordeaux' raison d'être. Might as well have a lower priced cru bourgeois or if in the mood for something big and ripe a Napa can.

My experience with Pontet Canet has been very similar to Jim's and Patrick's. They went through a sweet spot in the '90s. I like the 2000 as well. The 2003 has been up and down. More recent vintages are technical masterpieces but judgment reserved on ability to develop that desirable magical complexity with age. I used to be more confident about time healing all wounds but have been disappointed a few times. Now I’m not sure what to expect.

Between GPL and SHL, I prefer GPL. I didn’t buy either for a long time but picked up a couple of 2016 GPL. SHL is too oaky.

[Nicklasss]

Pontet Canet is on a hot streak since 1994. At the Chateau in 2015, all the vintages served were excellent, with my favorite being 2009.

Last June, i had a bottle of the 1996 with Jim, that was better than ever. Last year, dstgolf opened a 2000 while we were visiting them and it bested the 2002 La Mission easily. For those having concerns with 2000, try the Pontet Canet, or Pichon Baron or Lynch Bages...

My only problem with Pontet Canet is the price. I understand the quality is better than ever, and the demand higher, but it went from 40 to 200 $ a bottle in less than 13-14 years... and at the end, i think that when a Fifth Growth is increasing it price like that, the answer from top wines higher in hiearchy (Pichons, Cos, Montrose, Palmer, LLC..) just take it for grant to increase their price too.

Difficult to do fair comparaison, but when i think i bought the solid and great 2010 Cantemerle for a decent price,.. or the killer 2015 Brane- Cantenac for 60 % the price of the 2015 Pontet Canet.

I will still buy some Pontet Canet in the future, as it is such an important producer for BWE, but lower number of bottles.

Nic

[JCNorthway]

I made case purchases of Pontet Canet from 95, 96, 00, 03, and 05 vintages. When the 05 was priced more than 2 times what I paid for 95 and 96, I stopped buying with one exception; I purchased 6 bottles of the 2010 after attending a dinner and tasting organized by HDH wines in Chicago, and which Alfred Tesseron attended. So far I have drunk bottles only from 95, 96, and 03. In my experience, each of these vintages were very good wines, and also good value. My one caveat would be that the 2003 was drunk when it was pretty young, and I have not sampled it for the past 13 years. Based on some comments, it sounds like I need to see what is happening with that vintage.

Actually, I realize that I also tasted the 06, 08, 09, and 10 at that dinner. Without assessment of relative value, each of those vintages were very good (09 and 10 extremely good) and showed vintage characteristics rather than sameness.

[Ianjaig]

I’ve always liked PC, both the wine and the story behind it e.g. its transformation from French Railway quaffer to a wine now regarded (by some) to be of 2nd growth quality - its use of Breton draft horses, reducing its environmental footprint etc, etc. I guess I’m bit of a sucker for that sort of stuff, but then again, its history like that which make Bordeaux so interesting.

I also have a small personal connection to the wine in that, 20 odd years ago when holidaying in Paris and looking to learn more about Bordeaux wines, I asked a Parisian wine merchant to recommend a ‘serious’ wine to me to buy and cellar. He recommended PC. Opened 13 odd years later, I enjoyed them very much. They were both 1999s.

Like Nicklasss pointed out though, its price is now the issue for me (I can’t remember what I paid for the 99s, but it must have been peanuts in comparison to its current pricing). It has always stood out at tastings however, and the 2016 was the pick of the bunch recently.

[AKR]

I had a bottle of the 2003 last night, just popped and poured, to go withe some beef shanks and barley. It was still very tannic, despite all the years. Great depth though!

[DavidG]

Arv: The 2003 PC has been up and down for me. I bought a case on direction from the BD. Early bottles were great but modern-ish. Then it went into a soul-less phase with lots of concentration and extraction but not much else. More recently I’ve had alternating bottles that were either satisfying though young as your note suggests or again too modern and soul-less.

[tim]

I just came across this article on Jean-Michel Comme and didn't see it posted in other threads, so thought I would share. It is a very interesting look at his history with biodynamic wines and hints at his leaving the property. And in particular the impact of the 2018 vintage.

https://amustreadblog.com/2020/04/15/un ... tet-canet/

Unconventional Wisdom: Jean-Michel Comme on the Vines & Wine of Pontet-Canet

[JimHow]

What to make of him?
I'll be perfectly honest, when we met him, I thought he was pretty obsessed.

[Ianjaig]

My virtual tour pales in comparison to those actually travelling through Bordeaux & Burgundy at the moment, but a few nights ago, Mathieu Bessonnet (new Director at Pontet Canet) took myself and a couple of wine friends through a Zoom tour of the vineyard and cellars.

In these Covid times, this is as close as I can get to being there and it was fascinating hearing about Pontet Canets dedication to biodynamic production and other traditional wine making techniques. Was a really enjoyable night.