President Trump

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:05 pm

Nah, I didn’t think Joe Biden was a “disgrace” up there last night.
I thought he acquitted himself just fine against a screaming, unhinged madman to his right.
It is too easy to blame the whole system for where we are at, but the reason for that shit show last night was Trump.
HE was the disgrace, not Joe.

jal · Post by **jal** » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:41 pm

Oh the disgrace is definitely on the system for bringing us these two guys, but I agree; nothing new here.
Joe was perhaps strong enough to withstand the creep's attack but he was nevertheless perturbed and I think it affected him

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:56 pm

Yeah, Joe was not brilliant, but he is what we got.
And I like him a lot more than Hillary.
He truly has slipped, he was a lot slower to the counterpunch than he was in the Veep debate against Paul Ryan.
There were times when I wanted to shake him and say, Jesus, Joe, this guy is just telling one lie after another up there, fight back!
And every time Orange kept interrupting him I kept waiting for Joe to turn to the moderator to intervene, and I don't think he did once.

As for Orange....
We have seen him unhinged before, but this performance may have topped them all.
It wasn't just that he was unhinged, it was just telling one crazy lie after another, without even any hint of shame.

You, know, I just can't figure this guy out. He may be stupid but he's no dummy.
There was a moment, we've all see it now, when he was told by reporters that RBG had died.
He had been on stage at a rally for 2 hours, and was like the last to find out about her death.
And Tiny Dancer was playing in the background.
And it was really quite a touching moment, I thought, when he raised his hands and said, "she led an amazing life, she was an amazing woman," even if you disagreed with her, she was a great woman, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgByZbbCx3U

For me, anyway, I thought it was actually heartfelt.
And I thought, man, a few seconds of actual humanity from this monster.
Imagine if he were able to channel that kind of sentiment all the time, he'd be the next Ike/Ronnie.
But no, the next day, it was back to the madness...
We are going to have a major constitutional crisis on our hands come 11/3.

jal · Post by **jal** » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:21 pm

I used to love Thomas Friedman of the NYTimes right until about ten years ago when he started going all over the place on all sorts of subjects.
Today he’s back to his best:

The Democrats are not blameless when it comes to playing politics, but there is no equivalence to the Republicans. The Democratic Party sorted through all the choices, and, led by older Black men and women in South Carolina, rejected the Democratic socialist candidate and said they wanted a moderate unifier named Joe Biden.

The Republicans — who in the past voted for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, sane conservatives who could be counted upon to uphold the common good — have done no such equivalent thing. They have fallen in line lock step behind a man who is the most dishonest, dangerous, meanspirited, divisive and corrupt person to ever occupy the Oval Office. And they know it. Four more years of Trump’s divide and rule will destroy our institutions and rip the country apart.

To me, the only hope for America is to elect Biden and split the G.O.P. between the Trumpists and whatever is left of the moderate Republicans, and then hope that a big center-left and small center-right can agree on enough things to propel the country forward, heal the divide and act together for the common good.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:24 pm

Amen.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:59 pm

We got up at 2am to watch the debate. I think we watched the last 2016 debate in our hotel room in NYC after our mini BWE convention when Trump hovered behind Hillary with menacing intent.

I was really nervous for Joe, and he made a pretty shaky start, and in fact was bailed out more than once by Chris Wallace who we thought did a good job trying to rein in Trump who was out of control.

I was neither surprised nor really shocked that Trump’s conduct set a new low even by his own sordid standards. Though he was his own worst enemy and had no discipline. I think a lot of swing voters will have been convinced by that performance that they should not vote for him.

Rather than try and drown out Biden he should have allowed Biden to stumble over his own words. Early on Biden was talking gibberish as if his brain and mouth were out of synch. But at least Biden was well prepped and did well on substance.

Trump really is abhorrent and a monstrous tyrant in the making essentially threatening to unleash his neo-nazi thugs, aka the proud boys, on polling stations.

I don’t necessarily agree that we will have a constitutional crisis though, because we will know the result of Florida on election night and if Trump loses that state it is essentially game over for him.

Moreover if it is clear he has lost, the GOP leadership in Congress and the big GOP donors will quickly want to move on and pivot to the post-Trump era, and call on him and his malodorous entourage to leave the premises...

...he may try and cut an immunity from prosecution deal as a condition for going quietly, knowing him.

Clearly though the NYT tax revelations, with more to come, has blown a big hole below his waterline. I was disappointed by Biden not aggressively pursuing the line that if Trump owes $400m to unknown creditors - more like a billion actually - then he poses a grave national security threat to the nation.

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:20 pm

I did not watch the debate because I think it would have grossed me out.

I sincerely hope that the rules of teh game will be changed for the next two debates. Trump interruped Biden over 70 times, and overtalked him when he raised the 750 dollar income tax issue;
This must come up again, and Biden must be free to put together more than two sentences.

Alex R;

jal · Post by **jal** » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:31 pm

Alex if you didn’t watch the debate, you’re in luck. Tim Urban on his blog has a summary. I actually laughed out loud reading it:

https://waitbutwhy.com/2020/09/debate2020.html

Tom In DC · Post by **Tom In DC** » Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:14 am

marcs wrote:I didn't watch too much of it because I can only take American politics in limited doses these days.

But...but...but... you make your living working for one of the parties, right? And, without watching "much of it", you make clear declarations of who won?

Would you let me get away with saying "I haven't tasted any 2009's but trust me, that Palmer is the best wine you'll ever taste!" ???

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:13 am

Comte Flaneur wrote: Clearly though the NYT tax revelations, with more to come, has blown a big hole below his waterline. I was disappointed by Biden not aggressively pursuing the line that if Trump owes $400m to unknown creditors - more like a billion actually - then he poses a grave national security threat to the nation.

A shocking miss.

Fresh news. A reliable third-party. Hard for Trump to refute since he won’t disclose his returns. Consistent with his prior, well-publicized business failures and bankruptcy.

Biden, and Wallace, should have been beating this drum from the outset.

Personally, I think Biden feared Trump. He was passive, almost wispy in his speech, and seemed afraid to go after Trump. Granted, we know Trump only hits back harder. Still, why not go for the jugular when it is so exposed?

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:37 pm

Biden made some points but missed some big opportunities. Trump's debt and vulnerability was a big one. Hope he’ll pick up on that in the next one. He did manage to mostly stay on message and avoid getting drawn into topics he was better off avoiding.

As to style: Biden was smart not to play Trump's game. Smiling, laughing, briefly saying "It’s not true" instead of trying to out-bully the bully highlighted their differences to Biden's advantage with viewers who might actually be swayed. He refused to play Trump’s game. I think more voters were repulsed by Trump's strong-arm tactics than were turned off by any appearance of weakness. Biden is physically smaller and has a less commanding voice than Trump so he can’t out-Trump Trump in bombast. I shuddered at "man, will you just shut up" and calling Trump a clown but wonder if the average Joe will actually sympathize or admire his restraint.

Biden's best moments were when he looked straight into the camera and addressed the people, and I think that was very effective in comparison to Trump's delivery. I’m sure it didn’t play to those who admire bullies and are stupid or delusional enough to believe all of Trump's lies, but the irreconcilable deplorables aren’t Biden's target audience.

It was far from a commanding performance or clear-cut triumph, but I think Biden registered a small positive while Trump significantly hurt himself.

I think if the votes were all cast today Biden wins the election (popular and electoral). A lot can happen in the next month. And I fear more than ever that Trump will pull some pseudo-legal shenanigans so the vote doesn’t count.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:56 pm

Indeed, David, I think you got it right on just about everything in that post. I personally liked Joe's head shaking and dismissing, and I like when he told him to shut up.
I'm not sure I agree with Comte that we are going to know the winner on election night. Comte is correct on the tabulation of the Florida votes -- it looks like we are going to know the winner of Florida by midnight -- but I just don't think Joe is going to win Florida. It is essentially tied, and then you have to give Orange Head 3-5 points for the Florida Suppression Team (FST) advantage.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:18 pm

I mostly agree with David's assessment as well. However I wasn't bothered one bit by the clown comment or telling Trump to "just shut up man". He showed remarkable restraint thru much of Trump's ranting and raving, and letting it out a couple times was a healthy release imo.
I'm sure Trump lost undecided voters after that performance. Biden may not have gained them, but Trump definitely lost them.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:50 pm

To clarify, I shuddered at the thought of the right blowing up the "shut up" and "clown" comments because, you know, they were sooo much more outrageous than Trump's demeanor. Personally I liked that he was able to expresse his contempt (which Trump clearly earned) without sounding uncontrollably angry.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:20 am

Well, the virus got him... it doesn’t have to be this way, but hopefully he takes it seriously and gets his act together...

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:38 am

Fake news?

Quite a coincidence he catches it after a car crash debate performance that may have otherwise killed off his chances to retain the WH.

UK PM Johnson’s approval rating went up 17 points when he caught it - and nearly succumbed to it - and his party’s approval rose seven points.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:15 am

Is this the craziest year ever or what.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:28 am

Is this the October Surprise?

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:13 pm

And he meet for hours up close and personal with donors, without a mask, knowing he was sick. He is a truly vile excuse for a human being. Hope he didn't give it to Biden during the debate.

So here are some scenarios if he dies. Not that I think if will happen, but he is high risk. And if they inject him with bleach, who knows?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... er-part-1/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... er-part-2/

And some crazy scenarios if he tries to screw with the electors. This is truly nutty, but again, today...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... s-outcome/

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:34 pm

Live by the sword.....I feel sorry for his wife and son though. Of course, she wasn't wearing a mask at the debate.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:47 pm

Comte Flaneur wrote:Fake news?

Quite a coincidence he catches it after a car crash debate performance that may have otherwise killed off his chances to retain the WH.

UK PM Johnson’s approval rating went up 17 points when he caught it - and nearly succumbed to it - and his party’s approval rose seven points.

It’s possible, like Chris’s October surprise using the WH aides Coronavirus to create a smokescreen, to start with...With so much lying this guy does, nothing is off the table...

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:25 pm

Jay Winton wrote:Live by the sword.....I feel sorry for his wife and son though. Of course, she wasn't wearing a mask at the debate.

After hearing those tapes, I’m not sure I do. She sounds like a pretty horrible person.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:29 pm

OrlandoRobert wrote:
Jay Winton wrote:Live by the sword.....I feel sorry for his wife and son though. Of course, she wasn't wearing a mask at the debate.
After hearing those tapes, I’m not sure I do. She sounds like a pretty horrible person.

I neither relish nor sympathize with her. She is in it with trump for money anyway.,,

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:50 pm

OrlandoRobert wrote:
Jay Winton wrote:Live by the sword.....I feel sorry for his wife and son though. Of course, she wasn't wearing a mask at the debate.
After hearing those tapes, I’m not sure I do. She sounds like a pretty horrible person.

Perhaps she like Lady Macbeth Melania, having instilled all this covetousness in her husband.

It is like an modern Shakespearean tragedy

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:30 pm

Yup. It will take the focus off of his moral and financial bankruptcy and criminality and in some corners generate sympathy.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:12 pm

I'm hearing he has been taken to Walter Reed Hospital. That can't be a good sign.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:21 pm

You know what's crazy, honest to goodness.

It's like 7pm... And I'm already bored by this story....

I'm sipping on a 2016 Branaire Ducru....

I've seen Orange walking to the helicopter, I've seen his little clip.

He's almost certainly going to be fine. Like 98.9% chance.

But you know what?

I just usually don't lose sleep over tin-pot dictators like the clowns down in South America and the Middle East.

Why should I be losing sleep over this tin-pot joker.

Go ahead, shoot me down all you want. This fascist lives or dies, eh, whatever.

My biggest concern right now is how this is going to affect the poll numbers.

Fuck this mother fucker who made fun of the disabled NYT reporter, who mocked Joe as recently as Tuesday night for wearing a mask, while his criminal little puke felon children sat there, exposing MY candidate to the virus.

Fuck you, Donald Trump. Get out there soon on the campaign trail, you military-hating, racist, white supremacist, tax-evading, draft-dodging felon, so we can get you back out there putting your foot in the mouth.

All these phony politicians wishing him love and kindness when we all know they want him to die a painful, slow, sadistic death.... God, I hate politicians.

You know who was the best, today?

Mr. Joe Biden. I thought his little thing late afternoon was a class act.

I'm sorry, gang, call me whatever names you want. I don't care whether this Neo-Nazi lives or dies. we just gotta win the election, or ALL is lost. That's ALL I care about, certainly NOT whether Orange head drowns the agonizing pneumonia phlegm death in his lungs to which he sentenced 200,000 of his subjects because of his hate and ignorance.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:23 pm

...And I wish his poor abused Russian bride good health, even though she hates children and Christmas.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:24 am

JimHow wrote:You know what's crazy, honest to goodness.

It's like 7pm... And I'm already bored by this story....

I'm sipping on a 2016 Branaire Ducru....

I've seen Orange walking to the helicopter, I've seen his little clip.

He's almost certainly going to be fine. Like 98.9% chance.

But you know what?

I just usually don't lose sleep over tin-pot dictators like the clowns down in South America and the Middle East.

Why should I be losing sleep over this tin-pot joker.

Go ahead, shoot me down all you want. This fascist lives or dies, eh, whatever.

My biggest concern right now is how this is going to affect the poll numbers.

Fuck this mother fucker who made fun of the disabled NYT reporter, who mocked Joe as recently as Tuesday night for wearing a mask, while his criminal little puke felon children sat there, exposing MY candidate to the virus.

Fuck you, Donald Trump. Get out there soon on the campaign trail, you military-hating, racist, white supremacist, tax-evading, draft-dodging felon, so we can get you back out there putting your foot in the mouth.

All these phony politicians wishing him love and kindness when we all know they want him to die a painful, slow, sadistic death.... God, I hate politicians.

You know who was the best, today?

Mr. Joe Biden. I thought his little thing late afternoon was a class act.

I'm sorry, gang, call me whatever names you want. I don't care whether this Neo-Nazi lives or dies. we just gotta win the election, or ALL is lost. That's ALL I care about, certainly NOT whether Orange head drowns the agonizing pneumonia phlegm death in his lungs to which he sentenced 200,000 of his subjects because of his hate and ignorance.

100%.

Karma is a bitch.

His disdain about Covid, and safety measures, could not have been more front and center than at the debate. Mocking Biden for wearing a mask. His whole family and support group violating the debate rules by removing their masks, symbolically, just as they sat down in their seats. Continuing to campaign even after it became clear his inner-circle was getting infected.

Fuck. Them.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:32 am

Fuck Orange Head and his cult.

This story is almost as boring as this closed down 2016 Branaire Ducru.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:43 am

JimHow wrote:You know what's crazy, honest to goodness.

It's like 7pm... And I'm already bored by this story....

I'm sipping on a 2016 Branaire Ducru....

I've seen Orange walking to the helicopter, I've seen his little clip.

He's almost certainly going to be fine. Like 98.9% chance.

But you know what?

I just usually don't lose sleep over tin-pot dictators like the clowns down in South America and the Middle East.

Why should I be losing sleep over this tin-pot joker.

Go ahead, shoot me down all you want. This fascist lives or dies, eh, whatever.

My biggest concern right now is how this is going to affect the poll numbers.

Fuck this mother fucker who made fun of the disabled NYT reporter, who mocked Joe as recently as Tuesday night for wearing a mask, while his criminal little puke felon children sat there, exposing MY candidate to the virus.

Fuck you, Donald Trump. Get out there soon on the campaign trail, you military-hating, racist, white supremacist, tax-evading, draft-dodging felon, so we can get you back out there putting your foot in the mouth.

All these phony politicians wishing him love and kindness when we all know they want him to die a painful, slow, sadistic death.... God, I hate politicians.

You know who was the best, today?

Mr. Joe Biden. I thought his little thing late afternoon was a class act.

I'm sorry, gang, call me whatever names you want. I don't care whether this Neo-Nazi lives or dies. we just gotta win the election, or ALL is lost. That's ALL I care about, certainly NOT whether Orange head drowns the agonizing pneumonia phlegm death in his lungs to which he sentenced 200,000 of his subjects because of his hate and ignorance.

This wins my vote for post of the year, hands down. And you know what, I don’t care where you fall on the political spectrum — as long as you love democracy (an admittedly scare commodity in wide circles of the GOP these days), you should love this post. Quibble with the ad hominem language if you like, but you have to love this post. Enjoy all things Rolland if you please, but you have to love this post.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:44 am

JimHow wrote:Fuck Orange Head and his cult.

This story is almost as boring as this closed down 2016 Branaire Ducru.

Fuck me. I just ordered some of that, lol.

No bueno?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:05 am

Amen, my brother!

I dunno, I guess I was expecting more after those 15/16 Corbins.

I think this wine is just going to be a much longer lived beast.

Hm$(still) · Post by **Hm$(still)** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:24 am

Let me summarize Jim’s very worthwhile post:

This fascist lives or dies, eh, whatever...
Fuck this mother fucker ....
Fuck you, Donald Trump...

Amen to that.

We can all recognize that the country would be better off with him dead, without actually wishing him dead.

Hm$

jal · Post by **jal** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:32 am

So if Trump dies before the election how does that help? I think Biden has a much better chance beating Trump than any other Republican nominee. He’s only ahead in the polls because he’s been running on a platform of beating Donald Trump. Center and center right voters who will vote for him don’t like him or his economic plan, they are only picking him because they hate the buffoon in charge, a lot of leftists will not even show up to vote unless they’re voting against Trump.

Better have Trump get better quickly so he can lose the election. That’s my two cents.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:39 am

Such class from Poutine. He should try to go for USA presidency next time.

I think one or three other politicians in other countries won their presidency after being contaminated by covid... come on, like in the Rolling Stones sond, show a little "sympathy for the devil".

Nic

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:31 am

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OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:20 am

HAHAHA, just awesome!

Some more disclosures last 12 hours, a couple more Senators, the campaign manager, Kelley Anne. Like a total implosion.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:34 am

Ha ha good stuff.
I apologize for the profanities, they are stuck in there only for artistic effect, I’ll try to do them less.
I totally agree, Jacques, the sooner Orange gets back out there on the campaign trail the better off we’ll be.
This business of a “fever, cough, and congestion” for this unhealthy 74 year old overweight man makes me nervous.
I just keep having flashbacks to the terrible two month bronchitis I couldn’t shake last winter, I wouldn’t want to be dealing with covid at my age, let alone 74.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:19 pm

There's no provision for someone else to get on the ballot in 50 states at this late date. If Trump dies, only a write in campaign that outdid Joe Biden at the polls could change the outcome.
But I would prefer he survives a serious bout with Covid, so he can face the legal music as soon as he is not president.