President Trump

[JimHow]

Man, Cam Newton tests positive.

[JimHow]

...And Chris Christie.

Patriots-Chiefs game postponed.

Man, I'm stocking up and isolating in Chateau How for the next six months.

[Jay Winton]

2 Republican senators on the Judiciary committee test positive. How's that looking for a quick confirmation for Barrett?

[JimHow]

Now conflicting reports on the state of Orange Head’s vitals.

And they may have knowingly endangered Biden and his family.

[OrlandoRobert]

...And Chris Christie.

Patriots-Chiefs game postponed.

Man, I'm stocking up and isolating in Chateau How for the next six months.

No worries, Chris is robust and healthy.

[AKR]

WSJ is reporting that DJT's vitals over the last 24 hours are "very concerning". They are saying the "next 48 hours will be critical". How many more of the inner circle are doomed and damned?

If my understanding of constitutional transfer of authority is correct - from watching House of Cards (twice) - then the Speaker of the House* can become President if the POTUS and VP are both incapacitated. Just because Pence doesn't test positive now, doesn't mean he may not have it.

* Nancy Pelosi, not (now discredited) Kevin Spacey

[gene m.]

It is likely the early Trump voters are trying to elect a vegetable or "Weekend at Bernies'" candidate.

Last Thurs I was talking to my wife and kid who are out of town that it is likely Trump will be in the ICU by Sunday or Monday
and "president Pence" will be taking the oath before the senate confirms the Praise People SCOTUS nom. You can thank the
state of Indiana (soon to be just the "State") for giving us both these prospective "oath takers and breakers".

My wife and youngest daughter are visiting their aunt a 6x+ year old nurse who was called back in to work the ICU for the surge in S.Indiana. My daughter is "on watch" after coming down with fever, nausea and awaiting tests after visiting the upper pen. of Michigan.

My brother died 49 days ago in N Florida (Matt Gaetz's district) from Covid, he was in a convelascent center in Ft Walton Bch. My dad was a vet from Korea, 2 terms in Nam, Laos/Cambodia's invisible war, S. Am (Chile), Africa Congo and numerous other dubious places is buried at Barrancas near Pensacola NAS who died with COPD and pulmonary failure. He was a 26 yr+ Air Commando. I will visit them again late in October as I meet with my rep in Fl.

Trump has become his own weapon of mass destruction to the Republican party campaign, taking out their leadership as he blames them for botching his run. Likely he has been positive with Covid since last Friday before the "rose garden massacre" and then proceeded to infect as many as possible. He was and has always been patient zero. More shoes will drop:, 1/3 the cabinet, Barr? Meadows?...., 1/4 of the Rep. Senate leadership needs to be on watch/quarantine and isolated at the WWE fight island or I hear the Epstein island is available.

[DavidG]

Gene, I'm so sorry to read this. My condolences to you and your family. Incredibly, there are already over 200,000 families with similar stories in the US, and the number grows daily. I said a few months ago that Trump had blood on his hands for his utter failure in managing the response to COVID and was accused of having "Trump derangement syndrome." BY GOD I AM DERANGED AND PROUD OF IT. Anyone who isn't seriously disturbed by this criminal's dismantling of our democracy and his contribution to the deaths from SARV-CoV-2 is a lot more seriously mentally disabled than I am.

Trump's supporters in government need to pay a heavy price at the polls. Those close to him who are willing to accept his lies despite every logical precept opposing them may have to pay an even heavier price with their health. I wish no one ill but harbor no sympathy for these sycophants. I personally wish Trump as a human being (despite his persistent behavior suggesting otherwise) a complete recovery. But from a purely practical, non-personal perspective, if he were to be permanently incapacitated or if he died from COVID, I truly believe the long-term effect on our country would be positive. From a political perspective, I hope he recovers enough to get his ass kicked on November 3. It's a big enough target.

[JimHow]

I'm so sorry to hear your news, Gene.

[Chateau Vin]

Wow, that's rough...

[Chateau Vin]

As of Nov 2, 2020 -

As of Oct 3, 2020 - The 2020 Presidential Electoral Map: 290 to 248
As of Sep 3, 2020 - The 2020 Presidential Electoral Map: 278 to 260
As of Aug 4, 2020 - The 2020 Presidential Electoral Map: 302 to 236
As of Jul 5, 2020 - The 2020 Presidential Electoral Map: 279 to 259

[JimHow]

The White House is infested with germs.

And they've got the covid too.

[AKR]

Gene - that is awful news and I'm sorry to hear that. Our elderly tenants both passed away so it looks like I'll be heading to the East Coast for a while to deal with the house. Not looking forward to that very long drive. Did you fly or drive out to FL?

[gene m.]

Gene - that is awful news and I'm sorry to hear that. Our elderly tenants both passed away so it looks like I'll be heading to the East Coast for a while to deal with the house. Not looking forward to that very long drive. Did you fly or drive out to FL?

Arv,
Sorry to hear that. I flew on American through Dallas Fort Worth to Val P/Eglin AFB airport. Got a rental car and hotel on the Island.
The flight was about 1/2 full. I booked a window seat for me, another window for my daughter. Flight back was full, but uneventful.
I stayed home for 12-16 days without going out when I got back. I had to fly if as I got the call that he was in the ER and then ICU.
The day I arrived they were preparing a discharge and things rapidly went south and he died.

My wife and daughter flew out to Detroit, staying near ann-Arbor, then drove over to Indiana, and then up to the UP in Michigan. Those areas have all experienced a surge. My daughter has been cleared, and I'll likely pick them up tomorrow at the airport. My wife's aunt who has been recalled to the ICU was only working part time. She is way over 60, yet she still works but she is quite concerned as the hospital in Vincennes, Indiana has had an influx of patients and PPE is still a fucking problem. My oldest is still working at the test lab here in sac, they have been OK with no incidence in 40+ days. At least the testing, as flawed as it is, is better. My wife and kids have concierge docs/practice for the past few years. They get services "same day", testing and teledoc/life coach stuff weekly, and lab work.

I plan to fly back to Fl late Oct or Nov to meet with my agent and settle a few things. I grew up in the redneck riviera, so I still know a bunch of folks there, I went to school with the judge who is now head of the circuit court, knew the old sheriff who used to live across the street from us, my family attorney is our old high school mascot, so it's not that bad to do things remote, but some things I want to do in person.

Ironically, my brother died on his birthday, in the hospital were he used to work.

[jal]

I'm sorry for your loss Gene, this whole situation is awful.

Arv, we flew Sarasota to LAX last month through Atlanta without an issue. Delta, wore a mask throughout the flight, middle seat is kept empty. The only issue is that the Atlanta airport was crowded but almost everyone wore a mask. Social distancing was somewhat respected.

We also flew Tampa to LAX on United. No issues at all, but there we flew First Class using points.

[AKR]

I'm sorry for your loss Gene, this whole situation is awful.

Arv, we flew Sarasota to LAX last month through Atlanta without an issue. Delta, wore a mask throughout the flight, middle seat is kept empty. The only issue is that the Atlanta airport was crowded but almost everyone wore a mask. Social distancing was somewhat respected.

We also flew Tampa to LAX on United. No issues at all, but there we flew First Class using points.

very scary. these airplanes seem like super incubating petri dishes. i'm getting itchy just thinking about it.

the dog may end up being the decision tree point. at his size, flying would be very difficult. and he's not friendly, which means trouble happens when helpful people open pet crates doors.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/15873722/ns/u ... 3u5rUjYrrc

[JimHow]

I have flown three times during Covid, Arv, but I'm done for the time being. It has been "nice" in that there are no lines, nobody sitting next to you, yada, yada.
But the airport terminals just really bring home the devastation we are facing. Houston had some life to it on the weekend I went to see Stefan and Lucie, but Logan and Laguardia have been a devastating sight to see. I'm really planning on hunkering down here.

As for Orange Head....
A couple months back I said something like "we will be amazed at the things we are about to see."
Honestly, I am ruling absolutely nothing out. This is a very tenuous situation. However... Let's take a deep breath here.
If this were your 74 year old father or uncle, seriously, you'd START struggling with your siblings or cousins about whether you needed some sort of conservatorship or intervention, because it is all about YOU, but in reality, he's JUST FINE. Jesus, my Dad was driving at 90 after a personal phone call to my friend, the assistant secretary of state, promising that he won't kill anybody in a crash. I held my breath on that one, but 6 months later it was pretty much an academic issue. If this were a family, we would of course "deal with it"... okay, I'll come over for lunch, you stop by late afternoon, somebody sit through Wheel/Jeopardy in the seven o'clock hour, Danny, stay upstairs overnight, if anything happens call me, no matter what, no matter the hour....

These are very, very tough calls. When you are talking about POTUS, of course, we are talking about "nuclear codes," yada, yada, but... really, are we?

No... not really. The Stanley Kubrick "nuclear codes" are safe. It does not work that way, the way we see it in the Kubrick and Fonda movies.

Another thing....

So I was watching Dr. Gupta tonight.... I listened to him carefully....

He said: The mortality rate from the flu is "point one percent." Now we drunk driving lawyers always ask the follow up when the cop says that, "point one percent." What do you mean by "point one percent"? Do you mean 0.10, or 0.01?

Surely, the handsome and well-coiffed Dr. Gupta, even during the age of Covid, means 0.01.... surely, he doesn't mean that ten percent of those infected with Covid die, because now we would be talking about deaths (in the US, the only place that matters, of course), in the millions.

wait... Stephen Miller has Covid.... Die, Nazi....

[JimHow]

...Anyway, ho hum, another Nazi in the Trump White House with Covid....

Back to my point...

the handsome, coiffed, Dr Gupta then went on to say that Covid has a mortality rate of "five to six times" the common flu.

So....

My question is.....

And you know how much I despise Orange Head....

But....

So.... If Covid has a mortality rate "five to six times" the "zero-point-sero-one-percent" mortality rate of the annual common flu.... in other words, about five times as bad as a VERY low rate of mortality that we NORMALLY accept....

My question is:

Should we destroy New York City because of this? Should we shut down the word economies in China, India, Russia, every place else, because we have an "unusually bad" flu? Herman Cain died, John Prine died... A LOT of people have died.

It has ME so spooked that I literally don't want to leave the house.

But FIVe times the mortality of the common flu, which already has an extremely low seasonal mortality rate....

That's what the handsome Dr. Gupta says, with his fancy made-for-TV ties....

But....

Is there NOTHINg to debate here, when Orange Dildo-Head says, don't let covid dominate your life, etc., etc...

And I know know, the pontificators will ay, yeah, tell that to the families of the 200,000 lost, etc...

Look, if that argument gets the fascist out of there, sign me up!

But five times point-zer0-one percent? really? this is what we are fighting about?

[Chateau Vin]

Doesn’t 0.1 percent mean 0.1 per hundred which is 0.001? Or 1 in 1000?

[JimHow]

Yes, but do you think the handsome Dr. Gupta meant that?

If so, then Orange Head has an even greater bitch about the fake news.

[JimHow]

I agree with you, CV, my only intent was to interpret exactly what Dr Gupta said, which I listened to very carefully.
Indeed, I wrote it down in my ipHone as soon as he said it.

[AKR]

He is trying to get back into the Oval Office, rather than convalescing as medical professionals and concerned family members counsel. Perhaps he senses that his time behind that magnificent Resolute desk is running out. But even if family intervenes and confines him, it is difficult to contain him. Already today with his Twitter, he destroyed Secy. Mnuchin's attempts to save the economy.

[JimHow]

He is trying to get back into the Oval Office, rather than convalescing as medical professionals and concerned family members counsel.

Ok let me play devil's advocate. Is that a bad thing? Is that for us to judge? We voted for a 70+ candidate in 2016.

I didn't catch all of Chris Rock's monologue the other night, but it sounds like he was calling, without saying so, for a parliamentary system?

Has the time come, as Woodrow Wilson and others said 100 years ago?

[Chateau Vin]

There are no sacred cows in this cable news network business. But I think we can’t compare covid to flu...

Apart from mortality rate,

Flu has vaccine and covid doesn’t at the moment
We know long term affects of flu as non existent whereas we don’t know much about covid
Flu ebbs when warm weather returns, whereas covid doesn’t seem to follow that pattern
Flu is symptomatic (as far as I know), but covid seems to transmit asymptomatically

[JimHow]

Those are pretty weak arguments, CV.

Other than the occasional anecdotes, we don't hear much about the "long term affects" of covid. The VAST majority of victims seem to recover completely.

I think it's fair to say the vast majority of American voters are concerned about mortality rates, not the "long-term effects" of Covid.

That was a weak argument against Orange Head. Is that the best you've got?

What's the latest with morbidly/freakishly obese, asthma-ridden Chris Christie? He is my measuring stick.

If Chris Christie dies, we are right.

If Chris Christie lives, Orange Head is right.

[Chateau Vin]

The issue is the douchebag politicizes everything...even non issues are made up into wedge issues...whether it’s flag, covid, kneeling, usps, you name it...

I mean, he didn’t have control over the origins of covid and it getting on our shores. But the damn issue is his pathetic response. Just have robust plan, make sure everyone in the administration is on the same page, provide PPE to deal with it effectively etc. etc. and people will move on.

[JimHow]

By the way... I hope Chris Christie lives.

Orange Head, on the other hand....

[stefan]

Gupta certainly meant 1 in a 1000. But tRump, having two (or more) risk factors, has a much higher risk of death from Covid. From the LA Times:

"Other CDC data indicate that, among COVID-19 patients in their 70s, the death rate for those who were in good health at the time of their infection was 10%. For those already dealing with a medical condition, the death rate was three times as great: 32%."

Source CDC data:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/ ... _w#T2_down

[Chateau Vin]

Those are pretty weak arguments, CV.

Other than the occasional anecdotes, we don't hear much about the "long term affects" of covid. The VAST majority of victims seem to recover completely.

I think it's fair to say the vast majority of American voters are concerned about mortality rates, not the "long-term effects" of Covid.

That was a weak argument against Orange Head. Is that the best you've got?

What's the latest with morbidly/freakishly obese, asthma-ridden Chris Christie? He is my measuring stick.

If Chris Christie dies, we are right.

If Chris Christie lives, Orange Head is right.

I don’t know what is weak about the arguments. I didn’t say there are long term affects from covid. I said we don’t know as it is very early to determine those. However as you say, there are anecdotal evidence and we will know in coming years... I think, maybe the cases are less in ME and we keep hearing more about this covid as we have more cases in other parts of the country and we still are fighting for PPE at hospitals...

There is nothing macho about not wearing a mask. If it helps even a little bit, why not? One doesn’t lose manhood because one wears it. That’s what it has become...

[JimHow]

I wear a mask, CV, socially distance, isolate at home, the whole nine yards.
The mask has nothing to do with my question.

My question is:

If, as Stefan points out, the handsome and coiffed TV personality Dr Gupta says that one in a thousand people with the common flue dies, and, in the case of covid, 5 out of a thousand die, should we kill New York City, close down the world economy, destroy millions of jobs forever, create a global depression... or, instead, as I think Orange Head is arguing, weather it out until we get a vaccine and other cures?

That's all I'm asking.

If the answer is, no, Orange is wrong, he is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, I'll run with that, because I want this dangerous fascist out...

I'm not so sure the fascist is wrong in this case, though.... I'm not just willing to unquestionably accept that he is wrong, despite the fact he is a fascist in most other aspects of his existence.

[JimHow]

Four weeks to go from today.

Nate from 538 says that Orange has a 17 in 100 shot at winning. That's like 83 out of 100 for Joe.

Thank goodness, we are safe, then. Let's just cruise to victory....

Breathing a sigh of relief, based on what Nate, with his sideways Tigers cap, says.... Because he's an election nerd, you know, who has like "run 40,000 projections," whatever that means. If he says it's good, though, then I'm good, because he said it on the internet, I can rest at night for the next 4 weeks, Joe seems to have an insurmountable lead.

[JCNorthway]

in 2019 there were about 34,000 deaths from flu. With just over 200,000 deaths from Covid, with about 3 months to go, it looks like it is about 10 times more deadly. Granted we have a flu vaccine, which reduces the number of deaths. But I don't think flu and Covid are apples to apples.

[Chateau Vin]

I wear a mask, CV, socially distance, isolate at home, the whole nine yards.
The mask has nothing to do with my question.

My question is:

If, as Stefan points out, the handsome and coiffed TV personality Dr Gupta says that one in a thousand people with the common flue dies, and, in the case of covid, 5 out of a thousand die, should we kill New York City, close down the world economy, destroy millions of jobs forever, create a global depression... or, instead, as I think Orange Head is arguing, weather it out until we get a vaccine and other cures?

That's all I'm asking.

If the answer is, no, Orange is wrong, he is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, I'll run with that, because I want this dangerous fascist out...

I'm not so sure the fascist is wrong in this case, though.... I'm not just willing to unquestionably accept that he is wrong, despite the fact he is a fascist in most other aspects of his existence.

Fair enough, Jim...

As sad as the death rate of covid is vis a vis flu, for me, the issue is his administration’s and his response to covid...

In the beginning closing was warranted, and we also argued on this forum, people will be fatigued and how long will they hold it when economy and livelihood is at stake...

I take issue with this politicization and till today I don’t know what the plan is. CDC says something, his coterie dismisses it. Someone in the administration says something, the douchebag does 180 degrees...

I am all for opening one by one, with some rules, like wearing masks especially at healthcare facilities, retirement and assisted facilities and other vulnerable places. Also I want the administration to be on war footing for providing PPE and widespread testing... None of these have been achieved and this administration pays just lip service. If the administration does what it’s supposed to do, heed the medical community guidelines, I am all for opening one by one and ride it out with caution till we get the vaccine or something...

[gene m.]

On Sunday, Conley"—Sean Conley, the White House physician—"confirmed that Trump has been given a steroid, dexamethasone, that is normally only recommended for patients with severe cases of COVID-19 who are having serious trouble breathing. The drug damps down the body's immune system, which can jump into overdrive and damage the lungs and other organs," "In a large UK trial, dexamethasone was shown to reduce the risk of death in patients requiring supplemental oxygen by about one-fifth. But even after being given dexamethasone, patients who required oxygen still had a mortality rate of about 20%."

[tim]

I really don't think this is all that difficult.

The problem is twofold. First is the mortality rate. But second is the infectivity of the virus. The problem with Covid is that it is HIGHLY infectious.

There are three approaches:

1. Let everyone get sick and let the disease take out the most vulnerable.
2. Take precautions and reduce the infectivity to the point where we can manage it until we get a vaccine that will help protect against the virus.
3. Take extreme precautions and eliminate the virus because it can only live when it is transmitted to others.

Each one of these three options has varying degrees of restrictions to personal liberties and deaths. The first results, without question, in the most deaths. Perhaps 10x the second or third options.

Part of the problem is that people think they will survive, and they are probably right. 99% of people will survive. But given the infectivity rates, that means that 3.5 million Americans will die. A lot of people are willing to live with those probabilities. They apparently never saw Avengers Infinity War.

[Jay Winton]

I wonder if the steroids Trump is taking are affecting his judgement. This back and forth on the stimulus bill is alarming. Our economy needs this bill passed or it's going to be a truly harsh winter.

[Chateau Vin]

Jim,

How is the senate race in ME looking? I hear one poll that puts Susie Phony Collins just one point behind the challenger..

[JimHow]

Yeah, CV, it's really hard to tell, my honest sense is that Suzie is going to pull it out.
But as you know, I've had kind of a negative bent on this election season...
One guy I'd really like to see lose is that worm down in South Carolina.

[gene m.]

I wonder if the steroids Trump is taking are affecting his judgement. This back and forth on the stimulus bill is alarming. Our economy needs this bill passed or it's going to be a truly harsh winter.

Don Jr wants to stage an intervention.....
If Sr goes to Fla ....
The Florida Mental Health Act of 1971 (Florida Statute 394.451-394.47891[1] [2009 rev.]), commonly known as the "Baker Act," allows the involuntary institutionalization and examination of an individual.

The Baker Act allows for involuntary examination (what some call emergency or involuntary commitment), which can be initiated by judges, law enforcement officials, physicians, or mental health professionals. There must be evidence that the person:

possibly has a mental illness.
is in danger of becoming a harm to self, harm to others, or is self neglectful.

Both of these are defined in the Baker Act.

Examinations may last up to 72 hours after a person is deemed medically stable and occur in over 100 Florida Department of Children and Families-designated receiving facilities statewide.[2]

There are many possible outcomes following examination of the patient. These include the release of the individual to the community (or other community placement), a petition for involuntary inpatient placement (often called civil commitment), involuntary outpatient placement (what some call outpatient commitment or assisted treatment orders), or voluntary treatment (if the person is competent to consent to voluntary treatment and consents to voluntary treatment). The involuntary outpatient placement language in the Baker Act took effect as part of the Baker Act reform in 2005.

[smoore4]

The president is PERFECTLY FINE! In fact, he is back to his usual routine - golfing.



That's actually for you Gene. Your story is quite sad but your Weekend at Bernies candidate comment made me laugh. Enough to make my first meme!