Decanting

[smoore4]

I would love to hear thoughts from people smarter than me on decanting. Specifically, older vintages and different regions. For example, would you decant a 1964 Vosne-Romanee at all (yeah, I know, this is Bordeaux)? How long for a 1983 Phelan Segur for example? Or a 2005 Cote-Rotie (I know...). Or say a 2001 Montrose. I have read at least 3 different opinions but they either state the obvious or it is a religious war about what to do. Seems like this group would know. Thanks!

[stefan]

I never decant old wines. They are two likely to fade very quickly.

Sometimes I decant young wines, but I prefer to open them early and let them breathe in the bottle.

I would call a 2005 Cote Rotie youngish.

[JimHow]

I agree with Stefan, Steve. I don't see any big compelling need to decant a 2001 Montrose. It will still be youngish, but heck it is nearly 20 years old, it should evolve nicely over the course of a 2 hour dinner.

[jal]

My question is why do you decant in the first place?
If it's to eliminate sediments then I would only decant older wines and then pour them immediately into glasses (I'm assuming at least 4 glasses), by the way, I never decant old Burgundies or Nebbiolos, I never saw enough sediments there to justify that.
If it's to give the wine some air so it opens up, then as Stefan said, I never decant older wines.
That said, some 1986 Bordeaux, some 1988, some 1989, not 1990 but all 1994 and younger would benefit from decanting.
Cote Rotie I would not decant. That may just be me.

[smoore4]

J'aimerais vous dire un grand merci pour les reponses. Les conseils sont sages et je les prendrais en compte. Le Montrose 2001 apres 1hr sans decanter, mais ouvert dans la bouteille, etait sublime ! Steve

[Racer Chris]

For bottles with enough age to have thrown significant sediment I like to double decant in the morning, then return the refilled, uncorked bottle to my wine fridge until shortly before dinner. If I open the bottle shortly before dinner I'll pour from the decanter.
I use a slightly modified Rabbit filter/funnel, only inserting the stainless steel filter when I see sediment about to reach the bottle neck. My preference is to decant the final, filtered portion (2 oz +/-) directly into my glass for the first taste, to eliminate any possibility of sediment affected wine getting into the decanter.

[s*d*r]

Does anyone ever decant white wine (young or old)?

Neil Martin claims Laville Haut-Brion doesn’t show its best until several hours in the decanter. I tried it once but not sure I could tell the difference. I might try it with some baby white Burgundy as an experiment.

Otherwise, I decant reds for sediment and to check condition, then put it right back in the bottle. Very useful if you are taking the bottle to a restaurant. Despite that, I have been embarrassed too many times and brought a corked bottle anyway (and paid the corkage fee).

Stu

[dstgolf]

Agree with what the masters have said with a caveat. When an older wine seems seems DOA upon opening and you let it sit a few minutes swirl and sip and still seems dead we've been surprised a couple of times to decant and revisit later during dinner and we've had a few resurrections witnessing a rise from the dead to give it a chance rather than just giving up on the old friend.

Unfortunately last weekend (I'll report on the night when I have a chance) we have a Lafite vertical and the 83 cork was starting to push out and suspected heat damage. Wine smelled off and was muted. Still dark colour younger than anticipated but an off acrid finish with little to no anticipated Lafite elegance. Decanting unfortunately provided no revival in this case. The 85 was a stunner and the 2000 is going to be incredible but still very primary. The 2004 bottle that we shared in Fort Lauderdale was far superior to the one that we had Sat night but it still showed well. All of the wines unfortunately were drank too cold as our event was held outside to minimize covid risk and the temperature had dropped into the 40sF or 8C and the wines were all muted.

[DavidG]

So what does decanting do? Red or white...

Gets some oxygen into the wine. Does that do anything over an hour or two? Enough "oxidation" type chemical reactions?

Or is it mostly differential off-gassing of various volatile-ish compounds that change the nose, with smell being the larger part of taste?

Either way, or both, I would imagine whites are as susceptible as reds. But less going on with respect to the number of compounds to react or blow off in whites, so it has less effect. I’ve never thought decanting made much difference, at least in comparison to changes in temperature. But then I may have the palate of a yak.

[Jay Winton]

How about champagne?

[OrlandoRobert]

I agree with Stefan, Steve. I don't see any big compelling need to decant a 2001 Montrose. It will still be youngish, but heck it is nearly 20 years old, it should evolve nicely over the course of a 2 hour dinner.

A 2001 Montose is still a young Montrose, I would decant it. I’m not sure where the break-point is for me - it is more likely on a bottle by bottle basis - but I do decant when possible young and youngish wines, and prefer not to decant old wines unless I know I have a sediment issue to deal with.

[DavidG]

I don't decant Champagne so no personal experience. You're the Champagne whiz, Mr. VIno, what is your experience?

I would guess that there is definitely an added aspect with the bubbles. You'd lose a lot of effervescence with decanting, and maybe even more over time once decanted. So definitely a difference in mouth feel, and maybe in how the bubbles drive the aroma. Not sure if it would affect acidity as I imagine the CO2 remains saturated in the wine as long as there are still some bubbles being produced?

[AlexR]

Hmmm. Color me a fan of decanting.

Obivously, there are two purposes: eliminating sediment and letting the wine "breathe" and express itself.

Question is: which wines and for how long?

I find that young wines benefit the most.
I have also seen old wines positively transformed far more frequently than I have seen them check out.

Of course, there is the Audouze method, a compromise.

A fun way to check this would be to take an old wine, decant one bottle and "pop and pour" the other.
I've not done this.
Has anyone else?

Alex R.

[smoore4]

...Unfortunately last weekend (I'll report on the night when I have a chance) we have a Lafite vertical and the 83 cork was starting to push out and suspected heat damage. Wine smelled off and was muted. Still dark colour younger than anticipated but an off acrid finish with little to no anticipated Lafite elegance. Decanting unfortunately provided no revival in this case. The 85 was a stunner and the 2000 is going to be incredible but still very primary. The 2004 bottle that we shared in Fort Lauderdale was far superior to the one that we had Sat night but it still showed well. All of the wines unfortunately were drank too cold as our event was held outside to minimize covid risk and the temperature had dropped into the 40sF or 8C and the wines were all muted.

83
85
00
04
Lafite!

I am out of my league. Would love to hear more about this event. Too bad about the 83 cork. I'm sure it would be exquisite otherwise.

[JimHow]

Yes we've had some great Lafites over the years, Steve, we were supposed to visit their cellar this past April as Covid started its full rage, an enormous disappointment. Back when this site started in 2000 we used to be able to get the likes of Lafite and Romanee Conti for as low as a hundred bucks or so, you'll have to join us for one of our events sometime in the future, there's usually a bottle or two floating around.

[Michael-P]

I am with Alex on this. Generally I decant, although sometimes I do the Audouze method with older (+50 years) wines.
I have quite a few experiences where decanting an old wine helped, to be clear helped a LOT. Some 15-20 years ago, repeated tries with half bottles of 66 Haut Brion (from the same case) come to mind. The best time was about 3 hours in the decanter and good for another hour or two.
Michael-P