2016 Siran... Better than the '15 Siran.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:16 am

The 2016 Siran is SO approachable! It is just a smooth, fragrant, classy Margaux that, in the mid-$30s, is a great QPR.
The purple color is Margaux purple. My memory of the '15 is that it was BIG, like a lot of those huge, epic 2015 Margauxs.
This is just a bit more restrained and classy, but oh so drinkable now and for the next 20 years. Love it!
Rating: 94 points.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:49 pm

FWIW, the 2017 was very far away from the 2015. It would have bet 5$ the 2016 was "as good as" or "better" than 2015.

Nic

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:08 pm

I can see the 16 Siran being really good. I’ll hunt some down.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:11 pm

Both the 15 and 16 are excellent, Patrick.
I love the balance of the '16 just a notch better.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Thu May 07, 2020 12:33 am

Ok guys please don’t hate or ban this poor country lawyer from Orlando. I try, I really do. I bought some and decided to try my second one after again seeing more references to the Renaissance of Chateau Siran.

Oh de Medici, please bring back the old Chateau.

This Bouard version is terrible. It really is. The alcohol is cocktail level and I feel like I am chewing on a solid piece of an 4x4 column being shoved down my gullet. Abrasive and raw oak presence, dry astringent tannins. It literally is all alcohol and oak. There is no Margaux here, I’m not sure this is even Bordeaux. I’m about to dump it.

Perhaps I save it until tomorrow to try again. I just cannot imagine it improving. This is worse than my first attempt at assimilation.

Ok, I said it, can I keep my very important BWE card? I know I’m not VIP level, but I like the guest presence at this most awesome of places.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Thu May 07, 2020 12:38 am

maybe more foreplay needed

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Thu May 07, 2020 12:39 am

Racer Chris wrote:maybe more foreplay needed

Foreplay to enjoy getting pummeled by a big shaft of wood, or more foreplay to earn and keep my BWE card?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu May 07, 2020 12:45 am

Laughing out loud from Maine.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Thu May 07, 2020 12:54 am

OrlandoRobert, i guess you should try the "boring" 1993 Chateau Batailley. No de Bouard, Rollan or Derenoncourt involved for sure. No high alcohol and no intrusive oak. Only bitterness, coal, dark sand paper and elegant diluted fruit, surrounded by green pepper. A Chinon from a wet vintage, made in Pauillac!

Nic

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Thu May 07, 2020 1:08 am

I've had young bottles (not sure which chateau, not classified though) that were so oaky I had trouble drinking them, then a year or two later the oak had subsided to the point the wine was already enjoyable.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Thu May 07, 2020 1:13 am

Nicklasss wrote:OrlandoRobert, i guess you should try the "boring" 1993 Chateau Batailley. No de Bouard, Rollan or Derenoncourt involved for sure. No high alcohol and no intrusive oak. Only bitterness, coal, dark sand paper and elegant diluted fruit, surrounded by green pepper. A Chinon from a wet vintage, made in Pauillac!

Nic

Ha! What, sir, would possess you to buy anything from 1993?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu May 07, 2020 1:29 am

It's a long story, OB, that dates back about 18 years.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Thu May 07, 2020 1:32 am

It actually sounds pretty damn tasty!!!

JoelD · Post by **JoelD** » Thu May 07, 2020 2:59 pm

I can get some Siran 15 for $30 a bottle, and the 16 for 38 near me. Worth the price difference?

I was considering loading up more on the 15 since that is a better price vs market. And finding the 16 somewhere else.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Thu May 07, 2020 3:37 pm

OrlandoRobert wrote:Ok guys please don’t hate or ban this poor country lawyer from Orlando. I try, I really do. I bought some and decided to try my second one after again seeing more references to the Renaissance of Chateau Siran.

Oh de Medici, please bring back the old Chateau.

This Bouard version is terrible. It really is. The alcohol is cocktail level and I feel like I am chewing on a solid piece of an 4x4 column being shoved down my gullet. Abrasive and raw oak presence, dry astringent tannins. It literally is all alcohol and oak. There is no Margaux here, I’m not sure this is even Bordeaux. I’m about to dump it.

Perhaps I save it until tomorrow to try again. I just cannot imagine it improving. This is worse than my first attempt at assimilation.

Ok, I said it, can I keep my very important BWE card? I know I’m not VIP level, but I like the guest presence at this most awesome of places.

This is fun. Our palates so often align that I learn more when they miss, like they seem to with Baudry and now the new and improved Siran.

Not sure what’s going on but my bottle of the 2015 didn’t come across to me as oaky or boozy. Here’s what I wrote in 2/18: This wine is really impressively stacked but without any gloss or oak or heat or heaviness. It reminds me of some old school 2009s but with better acids and no evidence of elevated alcohol. I assume this will shut down eventually given the structure, but it’s really fun right now with tons of primary cherry and cassis fruit.

So it was fruity for sure, and it didn’t tick any old school boxes really, but I didn’t find it out of balance.

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Fri May 08, 2020 1:25 am

Say it ain’t so, Blanquito!!!

I saved the remainder, I feared scouring the drain pipes if I poured it down the sink. Second night, my opinion does not change. The oak astringency is over-powering in this wine.

I cannot score this wine. It’s a dumper.

Again, no offense to my friends here, just calling balls and strikes. And yes, I have a Yak palate.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri May 08, 2020 1:45 am

In a crazy world, the insane are sane.
I like 2016 Siran.
Obviously the owners of Siran thought there was SOME merit to their crazy wine.
I mean, it wasn't Boones Farm Apple.
Was this 2016 THAT undrinkable, OB?
Sounds like undrinkable gutter swill from your description!
I wonder what the winemakers at Siran who spent millions on their estate were thinking, producing such a Boones Farm level of swill!
How could they be so blind.
Sincerely,
JimHow
Bordeaux Wine Enthusiast
(Not Rhone, Not Loire, Not Cali, Not Burg, Not...)

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Fri May 08, 2020 2:02 am

It’s the 2015, Jimbo. I’ve not had the 2016. Much better vintage, though.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri May 08, 2020 2:16 am

I dunno, I loved the 15 Siran, it's what prompted me to buy 10 bottles of the 16 Siran, which I thought was even a notch better. Neither I thought was outrageously offensive or vomit inducing, like the night when I was 15 years old and we were camping with my friends and my brother Tom and I drank a whole bottle of Boones Farm Apple, the first time I ever drank alcohol, the first time I ever vomited violently the next day from alcohol. Neither the 15 or 16 Siran were anything near that offensive.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Fri May 08, 2020 3:03 am

I've had 3 bottles of the '15 Siran so far. The third was just a month ago. None of them were objectionable to me, and certainly not excessively oaked. Obvious oak is something which bothers me and I would have noted such on cellartracker, even if that was the only comment I bothered to make. I scored my first bottle 92 points almost exactly 2 years ago. The only comment I made was that it was more understated than previous tasting notes suggested.
Perhaps Chateau Siran is not fully blended before bottling.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Fri May 08, 2020 3:09 am

I’m gonna have to pop another 2015 Siran soon!

OrlandoRobert · Post by **OrlandoRobert** » Fri May 08, 2020 3:30 am

Blanquito wrote:I’m gonna have to poop another 2015 Siran soon!

Please, Blanquito, just because I pissed all over it does not mean you have to stoop (rhymes with . . . ) to such levels of depravity!

Wines are funny like this, certain notes at a certain pitch send one off in another direction from what I consider to be a very erudite field here. No offense meant, this wine just didn’t work for me.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Fri May 08, 2020 6:49 am

At least it gave you wood.

I liked the 2015 Siran. A bit ripe and glossy but not offensively oaky or flabby. A very good wine, not excellent,good QPR a solid B. I passed on the 2016.

Jeff Leve · Post by **Jeff Leve** » Thu May 14, 2020 3:58 pm

Jim... I am doubly impressed! Siran has been on a roll since 2014, when they brought in Hubert de Bouard as their consultant. Though I prefer the 15 for its softer lusher tannins and greater volume. 16 is very good, but just a bit less IMO. 18 is beautiful as well.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Thu May 14, 2020 6:06 pm

Jeff what did you thought about 2017? At UGC tasting, I thought it was a small deception after the 2015...

Good to hear from you.

Nic

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Thu May 14, 2020 6:49 pm

I opened another 2015 Siran a couple of days ago, and boy has this clamped down since I last tried it 2 years ago. If I was looking for a modern flourish, I admit I did find the nose a little garish right out the gate, but the palate was tre serious with the structure taking center stage. I guess this is reassuring to me, as this used to be the norm for a young Bordeaux, to show well for a short window on release and then shut down hard.

I only had one glass, froze the rest. I'll report back on the remainder when I get to it.

Jeff Leve · Post by **Jeff Leve** » Fri May 15, 2020 3:09 pm

Nicklasss wrote:Jeff what did you thought about 2017? At UGC tasting, I thought it was a small deception after the 2015...

Good to hear from you.

Nic

I am not sure what you mean by deception Nic. But 17 Siran is not at the same level as the 15 or 16. You can see tasting notes on my site if you wish.

AKR · Post by **AKR** » Sat May 16, 2020 5:38 pm

I was reading on the WB site that there are apparently two Jeff Leve, a good one, and a bad one, a doppelganger. Apparently in the LA basin that is how they are differentiated: the good one and the bad one.

It's like some twisted dream out of WineWestWorld.

jal · Post by **jal** » Sat May 16, 2020 5:46 pm

Jeff Leve wrote:
Nicklasss wrote:Jeff what did you thought about 2017? At UGC tasting, I thought it was a small deception after the 2015...

Good to hear from you.

Nic
I am not sure what you mean by deception Nic. But 17 Siran is not at the same level as the 15 or 16. You can see tasting notes on my site if you wish.

Nic means "disappointment", so you are both on the same page.

Jeff Leve · Post by **Jeff Leve** » Sat May 16, 2020 6:02 pm

jal wrote:
Jeff Leve wrote:
Nicklasss wrote:Jeff what did you thought about 2017? At UGC tasting, I thought it was a small deception after the 2015...

Good to hear from you.

Nic
I am not sure what you mean by deception Nic. But 17 Siran is not at the same level as the 15 or 16. You can see tasting notes on my site if you wish.
Nic means "disappointment", so you are both on the same page.

Oh... But I do not agree exactly because you need to take the vintage into consideration. I will be tasting 2019 Siran this week!!! I am looking forward to it.

William P · Post by **William P** » Sat May 16, 2020 6:42 pm

jal wrote:Oh... But I do not agree exactly because you need to take the vintage into consideration.

In my simple mind, I don't exactly agreed with the need for taking vintage into consideration. So if Nic is at a Siran blind tasting of 6 vintages, he picks the wine he thinks is the best. Now as we know, criteria for choosing the best is often highly subject with a myriad of criteria that one can use to judge. Some factor in potential, others not so much. However, in reaching his decision that bottle B is the best, he has done so without reference to the Vintage. At that point in time, vintage is irrelevant. JMHO.

Bill

Jeff Leve · Post by **Jeff Leve** » Sat May 16, 2020 8:16 pm

William P wrote:
jal wrote:Oh... But I do not agree exactly because you need to take the vintage into consideration.
In my simple mind, I don't exactly agreed with the need for taking vintage into consideration. So if Nic is at a Siran blind tasting of 6 vintages, he picks the wine he thinks is the best. Now as we know, criteria for choosing the best is often highly subject with a myriad of criteria that one can use to judge. Some factor in potential, others not so much. However, in reaching his decision that bottle B is the best, he has done so without reference to the Vintage. At that point in time, vintage is irrelevant. JMHO.

When rating a wine, the quality/character of the vintage is not a factor. It is what it is.

But if you say a wine is a let down from a previous vintage, the quality, character and style of vintage are important to consider in that singular context. Knowing all these years and the wine reasonably well, it was never possible that 17 would not be less than 15, 16 and 18. 17 was a difficult year. There is no red Bordeaux wine off the top of my head I can think of that made a better 17 than they did in 15,16 or 18.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Sun May 17, 2020 10:13 am

Guys
If any of you want some wine that really IS all alcohol and oak staves, PM me as I have some wine that precisely fits that description.
If you like I can easily add some road tar, cigar ash and molasses at the same price.
It will save me having to send it off to auction.

As for the Chinon, I think I will also pass.
Can we have some wine that tastes and smells like fermented grape juice rather than pickles and green pepper, or on the other hand, hot bitumen emulsion?
Or am I just being too choosy in 2020??

Peace brothers
Mark

Gerry M. · Post by **Gerry M.** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:04 am

I'll have to check out the 2016 Ch Siran but based on Jim's initial impression I'm a little hesitant. His impression was that 2015 was a much "Bigger" wine than the 2016 and the last bottle of 2015 I'm just finishing up it makes me wonder. I popped it open last night and it was indeed very "big" being full fruited, well balanced with tons of character and nuance. I only had a glass since it was late and came back to tonight. My, what 24 hours does. All that verve, spice and energy is totally gone. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good drinker but more pedestrian and lacking any excitement.

Based on this I'm a little suspect on it's long term future and am beginning to think I should just enjoy it in the current moment.

JoelD · Post by **JoelD** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:30 am

Gerry M. wrote:I'll have to check out the 2016 Ch Siran but based on Jim's initial impression I'm a little hesitant. His impression was that 2015 was a much "Bigger" wine than the 2016 and the last bottle of 2015 I'm just finishing up it makes me wonder. I popped it open last night and it was indeed very "big" being full fruited, well balanced with tons of character and nuance. I only had a glass since it was late and came back to tonight. My, what 24 hours does. All that verve, spice and energy is totally gone. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good drinker but more pedestrian and lacking any excitement.

Based on this I'm a little suspect on it's long term future and am beginning to think I should just enjoy it in the current moment.

Interesting that you say that Gerry, that is almost exactly how I feel about the 2015 Siran. I am definitely worried about its ageability. But it is a solid wine. I will try to find some 2016 to try soon as well.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:22 am

Good know Gerry.

I think that most of the time I opened a 2015 Siran, it was gone within 2 hours. I drank one bottle over 3 days, and i would agree that it was at it best on day 1, fading more and more the following days.

I will wait (i don't know how many yet) a few years before opening my next bottle.

Nic

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:34 pm

Same experience here with the 2015. Wasn't expecting a $25-30 wine to do the Bordeaux magic though you never know and no harm in holding a few if you have space in the cellar. Even if it isn't an ager, my oh my what a great QPR early drinker. So glad Patrick turned me on to it. Mine are already gone.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:57 pm

The 15 Siran was probably a wine best Howed. My last bottle in May had lost it’s upfront appeal and was fairly hard work. I’m sitting on 3-4 more bottles and I’ll see if the early charm reappears in a few years, but like all of you my optimism is tempered.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:13 pm

Same here, I enjoyed a more recent bottle less than one shortly after release.
Perhaps it is in a closed stage.

Racer Chris · Post by **Racer Chris** » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:58 pm

I'm hoping that in the 10-15 yo stage the 2015s will be drinking well again. I have 14 of them waiting.