What should I do with my two cases of 2015 Canon?

[JimHow]

I got these at a good deal on release, for $96 per bottle.
Musigny-151's recent note that this 100-pointer is not his cup of tea has me wondering whether I should dump or hold.
I've never sold wine before, wouldn't even know where to begin.

[robert goulet]

Paging Orl Bobby...get Roy Block on the line.

[stefan]

If you don't want it, trade it. That avoids paying 25% gain on the sale and the high fees when selling a small quantity.

[Gerry M.]

I haven't sold wine in a few years since the demise of Wine Commune but have started to think about unloading a few things. You have 3 or maybe 4 options. Auction, private sale, outright sale to a reseller or trade.

Auctioning is the easiest. You consign, they sell and you get paid. Both the seller and the buyer pay a commission. The buyers commission is usually a fixed % but the sellers is usually negotiable. On average, my guess is you would walk awsy with 2/3's of market value.

Private would give you a better return but you have to deal with the logistics of money and hand off of bottles.

Outright sale is the quickest way but the least return, probably 50 to 60 % of market.

Trade is intriguing but the most complicated in hooking up with someone who has something worth trading for.

[Nicklasss]

I think you need to open a bottle and taste, to have a better idea what to do with it.

Personnally, i would keep a case, and the second one you could sell (while i will never sell wine myself) of switch for a case of 2016.

When i taste it at the UGC tasting, i really thought it was one of the best 2015, with Rauzan Ségla and Brane Cantenac.

Nic

[Blanquito]

Nick gives good advice, I’d try one. If you don’t like, I am happy add it to the consignment Ricky and I are sending to K&L in mid January. You will definitely make a good profit if you sell it there with us (collectively our consignment is big enough that we pay only a 10% seller’s commission and that wine is fetching a premium these days).

[marcs]

Woah, wait a second....people are jumping to some radical recommendations here. What about the possibility of selling it at cost to other BWE members? Why are we just skipping over that?

[jckba]

I would agree with Nick and tell you to try a bottle for yourself and if not to your liking then I too am interested in the Canon after having missed out on it when it was reasonably priced and refused to pay up. Now, I have an extra case of the 2016 Les Carmes Haut Brion which I would be willing to part with in trade, though, I would have to tack on something else on to shore up the difference.

Let me know if at all interested though if you are turned off by the changes at Canon there are equal changes at LCHB but at least with the latter you get a wine from your vintage of preference

[marcs]

Seriously though, you do need to try it first.

[DavidG]

You need to try one. I think you and I have broader preferences for Bordeaux than Mark or OB.

Here's my note on the 2015 Canon: 10/10/2018 Just got these in and had to give one a spin. Pop and pour. Black core, purplish red at the rim.

Nose is there right away, no waiting or coaxing needed: dark fruits, flowers, moist potting soil, some oaky vanilla and tar.

Full bodied, creamy silky palate-coating lush fruit with good balancing acidity that keeps it fresh, label says 15% ABV but I’m not getting any alcoholic heat, can feel the tannins but no bitter or harsh notes to them. Very long finish.

After a couple of hours the nose is more intense with a bit of cherry added to the dark fruits, earth, flowers and oaky notes. Tannins are more evident but the ripe fruit and balance are still there.

Obviously no aged complexity yet. My only criticism is that it’s not showing much Bordeaux-ness but I wouldn’t expect that at this early stage. Not an AFWE wine and may never be, but it’s balanced, not overly sweet or too ripe. This is a baby monster and while it’s pumping out plenty to love right now, I’ll be waiting for that Bordeaux complexity to show up in another 15-20 years. Outstanding.

[Musigny 151]

Jim,
Absolutely try a bottle. I think you tend to enjoy modern wines more than I do.

[Nicklasss]

Woah, wait a second....people are jumping to some radical recommendations here. What about the possibility of selling it at cost to other BWE members? Why are we just skipping over that?

Marcs has the best recommendation. I'll take any bottles you don't want, at your purchase cost!

Nic

[Claudius2]

Jim
I’d not be too quick to dump it.
At only 5 yrs of age a lot of right bank wines are rather clumsy and this may simply be the case with the Canon.
My albeit limited experience with Canon is that it takes many years to bloom and seems to go phases. The 1982 to my taste seemed to take some decades and even at 20 or so years seemed closed and surly. I wasted most of the case by drinking too early (and I tend to like them younger than many others).
The price of the wine will almost certainly appreciate with time so unless you want to cash out any buy something else then just forget about it in the meantime.
I’m also kicking myself for selling thousands of bottles when I moved to Singapore. It wasn’t about money it was a matter of not wanting old wines ruined in transit to balmy Singapore but with hindsight the auction house had lots of stock from me to sell.
The last Canon I’ve tried was the 2014 and it was pretty good and I did not think it was a modern or “New world” style.

[Jay Winton]

send mr vino a bottle, I will take one for the team and let you know. Issue resolved...how easy was that?

[s*d*r]

I’d keep that case of ‘96 Lafite.

[Comte Flaneur]

Hold

Cash is trash

Happy New Year Jim and all BWE

This has the same alcohol as 2015 VCC and most other esteemed 15 RBs ...it was a v warm vintage

Issue is did this go spoofy vs 14 for the wrong reasons?

https://www.wine-pages.com/community/th ... eaux.5919/

[OrlandoRobert]

Jim,
Absolutely try a bottle. I think you tend to enjoy modern wines more than I do.

Exactly what I was thinking, Jimbo has a broader palate and has clearly shown he likes the some modernist Bdx as well.

Would be crazy to flip them without evening trying one.

[JimHow]

Yeah, I'm inclined to just hold, I've never sold wine before and I just can't see myself doing it, unless I'm on my last legs in old age.

[Comte Flaneur]

Factoid: 15 Canon 14.5% abv, 15 VCC. 14.6% abv

[Michael-P]

1 - Yes, try it now since you like infanticide.
2 - Try one every year until one case is gone. Then decide what to do with the second case.

Or sell or trade them to someone (MP?) directly to avoid auction fees.

MP

[Musigny 151]

I have a case plus a couple of magnums, plus the extra bottles I tasted. Let me begin by saying whether you like this wine or not will probably be determined by how you react to some of the more modern vintages.

It is not the Canon I knew, it doesn’t posses the slight austerity and the later development of flavors and finish that can be coaxed from the glass I enjoyed in those old bottlings, and so it seems do others, as prices are on the rise for them.

More importantly, I did not get much more than a whiff of terroir; older examples possess much more. It is a lovely, plush wine, a tad amorphous, and incredibly friendly. I have noted that Jim seems to like this style more than I do, which is why he should try a bottle before getting rid of his cases. There is little downside, and the wine is probably still open.

My initial comments were to do with a sea change of a favorite property. My next clear out will probably include the Canon.

[Dandersson]

As many others have suggested drink a bottle and make up your mind. If you don't love it sell and buy 2014 Ch Cantemerle for money that you get for Canon.

[JimHow]

I think I'll hold those cases for now, but, hmmm, trading a case with MichaelP for a case of 1989 Lynch... hmmmmmm.

[Musigny 151]

I think I'll hold those cases for now, but, hmmm, trading a case with MichaelP for a case of 1989 Lynch... hmmmmmm.

Happy to make that trade.

[JimHow]

Man, you guys are tough!

[Claudius2]

Jim
I’m more hopeful than others and let me give a few examples.
The first en primeur vintage I ever ordered was 1982. For many years, 82 has been heralded as a top vintage but that seriously wasn’t the case back then.
RPJnr sang the praises of 82 at a time when several other renowned writers and critics were saying the same things that are now being said about warmer vintages like 2015. Okay the alcohol levels are now higher but 14.5% isn’t that unusual anymore.
Similarly 1947 Cheval Blanc was not universally loved back then and had high alcohol for that era. It has stood the test of time.
I have not tried the 15 Canon but I do understand the style of the wine. The 82 was never a showy wine and I wasted some of them by drinking too young. Yet I have tried numerous lesser Bdx from 2015 including some classed growths, second wines and numerous Haut Medoc and Medoc AC’s. My good luck the the airport duty free store shut down.
I understand why the vintage isn’t loved by traditionalists and I was surprised that some classified wines at only 4-5 yrs were open and quite drinkable. But does that mean that they will not age?? No way.
I have had 50 odd year old Aust wines (Cabernet and Shiraz) that were always open and tasty yet aged quite brilliantly. And I mean regions like the Hunter, Barossa and Coonawarra.
So I would not worry about it and better to just let in chill in the cellar for a decade or more and then try it. By then if you don’t like it, swap, trade or sell.
However I am sure that you would jump at a full case of 89 Lynch Bages. And still have a dozen 15 Canon to think about some other decade.

[Musigny 151]

It is interesting that Parker got all the credit for “discovering” 1982 Bordeaux. He certainly took credit for it, and it kick started his brand. But that was not the case. The Brits certainly knew about,the Bordelais were really excited by it, as were merchants in the US. The only exceptions were Robert Finnigan and a slightly less warm response from Terry Robards, who said the vintage was indeed superb, but felt the premium for the wines was too high when you could still buy 1981 for so much less.

As for the wines, I think they differ from the modern vintages you mentioned in two major respects, alcohol and acidity. Alcohol was by comparison low, most wines hovering around the 13 degrees though a little bit higher on the Right Bank. Second the wines were balanced, the acidity clear and the wines were fresh from the get go.

The 1947 Cheval which has always been the poster child for those who like warm wines. I have had this five times. The first one doesn’t count, a Van dear Muelen bottling that smelled and tasted of skunk. The other four along with other Parker greatest wines of the last century, Latour a Pomerol 1961, Lafleur 1975 and 1979 were not to my taste. Soft, pruney and relatively simple.

I have had some beautiful Australian wines with a few decades of cellaring. In the late nineties I bought some Normans Clarendon(?) 1984 for $7 a bottle that was a delight. I had the last bottle a few months ago, and it showed no sign of collapse. Similarly 1981/2/3 Grange. The 1982 was a little over the top, but still delicious.

[DavidG]

To echo Claudius' comments...
1982 was too ripe and modern - turned out just fine.
1990 was too ripe and modern - turned out just fine.
There are more examples.

And to reiterate my comment above, Jim you have broader palate preferences than some of the naysayers here. Don't sell unless you try one and hate it. You can always sell later.

[Claudius2]

Musigny
I’m now riding the exercise bike at the condo gym so if I lose my train of thought don’t be too surprised.
Can I make one point about Grange.
I have tried every vintage from 51 to 90 plus various others since then.
I have to admit I have never really loved it irrespective of the vintage yet I respect the views of others regarding the wine. By the way my most preferred vintage was 86.
I for one have constantly argued against the hi alcohol and dead fruit characters in extreme Aussie wines and arguably to the annoyance of other Australians who get a bit parochial about it.
Back in the 70s and 80s most Barossa, Hunter and McLaren Vale wines were much lower in alc and deliberately made in a more understated style with freshness and some savoury characters.
I think that all changed in the 90s and whilst these wines don’t suit my rather Francophile palate, they do have a place and if others want them they can have my share no problem.
Luckily that’s trend is now rather passé and Parkerised wines struggle at auction here and back in Aust.
I would have to say that the quality in Bordeaux is now a hell of a lot better than in the 70s when I first started drinking them and thus if one style does not suit then fine there are plenty of others.
A few Yrs back I went to a 2008 RB tasting that included a few top wines and a very decent range of GCCs and Pomerols. Mostly they had higher alc than I’d like to be honest yet with a handful of exceptions it did not throw them out of balance. And they still tasted better than many of the thin weedy wines from the 70s.
Maybe I am just getting old but I thought Bdx shined brightly from 81 to 90 and even the weaker vintages like 84 and 87 still gave some drinkable wines.
So if St Emilion and Pomerols are higher in alc than in past decades I’d not reject them outright as 14.5% is not extreme. The 47 Cheval Blanc by the way is reputed to have 16%.
Having said that we do not know how the modern vintages will age but i am more confident than some others that they will be nicer with age.
Now done 16klms on the bike with change to treadmill and then weights.
Cheers
Mark

[Musigny 151]

Sorry did not see this.
Lot of thought provoking stuff here.
I have always found most higher alcohol wines to be out of balance for my palate. I used to buy Viognier from George’s Vernay when I lived in Geneva. The Condrieu was a bargain, so he never understood why I always bought the less alcoholic straight Viognier. So was never enthused by the extracted Aussies starting with the 1998 vintage. As well as the alcohol, there was also an unpleasant bubble gummy finish/aftertaste.

The wines from the seventies and eighties are not homogeneous. Required a lot more selection, as the climate at the time resulted in wines that were barely ripe. But when they were good, they were marvelous. Take an unsung hero like 1979 Du Tertre. Still going strong, forty plus years later. And at the top end, few wines nowadays can compete with Mouton 1982 and Haut Brion 1989. The problem of course was that a lot of lesser wines came from that era. The first time I tasted 1979 Figeac, it was pure asparagus. The 1982 is a marvel; most of the wines from the chateau are. But there are enough failures to require tasting before buying.

The situation is a little different today. Ripeness has changed, both the definition and the ability to do so. The wines now are powerful, the tannins softer, the acids lower, and there is opulence and early drinkability perhaps at the expense of some freshness. The critics are fine with it, and the paradigm for better or worse, has changed. Luckily, there are still vintages like 2014 and 2016, where I still find the freshness and slight edginess I loved in earlier vintages. The question of ageability of these wines is still out there, but less important than it used to be. The wines are much more homogeneous, and few wines or vintages can be thought of as seriously subpar.

Interesting that you found the Right Bank wines from 2008 alcoholic. I don’t have facts and figures at my fingertips, but I do know the levels were way below 2009, 2010 (especially) and 2015.

Musigny
I’m now riding the exercise bike at the condo gym so if I lose my train of thought don’t be too surprised.
Can I make one point about Grange.
I have tried every vintage from 51 to 90 plus various others since then.
I have to admit I have never really loved it irrespective of the vintage yet I respect the views of others regarding the wine. By the way my most preferred vintage was 86.
I for one have constantly argued against the hi alcohol and dead fruit characters in extreme Aussie wines and arguably to the annoyance of other Australians who get a bit parochial about it.
Back in the 70s and 80s most Barossa, Hunter and McLaren Vale wines were much lower in alc and deliberately made in a more understated style with freshness and some savoury characters.
I think that all changed in the 90s and whilst these wines don’t suit my rather Francophile palate, they do have a place and if others want them they can have my share no problem.
Luckily that’s trend is now rather passé and Parkerised wines struggle at auction here and back in Aust.
I would have to say that the quality in Bordeaux is now a hell of a lot better than in the 70s when I first started drinking them and thus if one style does not suit then fine there are plenty of others.
A few Yrs back I went to a 2008 RB tasting that included a few top wines and a very decent range of GCCs and Pomerols. Mostly they had higher alc than I’d like to be honest yet with a handful of exceptions it did not throw them out of balance. And they still tasted better than many of the thin weedy wines from the 70s.
Maybe I am just getting old but I thought Bdx shined brightly from 81 to 90 and even the weaker vintages like 84 and 87 still gave some drinkable wines.
So if St Emilion and Pomerols are higher in alc than in past decades I’d not reject them outright as 14.5% is not extreme. The 47 Cheval Blanc by the way is reputed to have 16%.
Having said that we do not know how the modern vintages will age but i am more confident than some others that they will be nicer with age.
Now done 16klms on the bike with change to treadmill and then weights.
Cheers
Mark