Buying 2020 futures is hard to justify.

[greatbxfreak]

Comte Flaneur,

I met Caroline Frey in 2008, 4 years after she came to La Lagune. Crush or no crush, she's great looks. And it's certainly not because of her looks that I score La Lagune highly. Have you ever visited La Lagune??

I have always believed that Wine critics grossly underestimated la Lagune. They are so afraid of getting out of their skins and award La Lagune a higher score. Wine critics - I mean 4 musketeers, guess who.

Believe me, that La Lagune has been on the great run since 2014. I often read here about older vintages of La Lagune, and posters are generally very happy about these.

To others:

Another proprietor with great looks - Anabelle Cruse Bardinet, Chateau Corbin. I've known her since 1996. It's not so often to see a chateau owner who constantly searches to improve every detail of her wine, even the smallest one. 2020 vintage is for the first time during her reign at Corbin that she didn't ask for external oenologist advice!! And the wine in the 2020 vintage is worth every point I have given. As 2015, 2016, 2018 and 2019!!

I was not too fond of Angelus after 1989/1990 until I tasted 2018 from the bottle and had a great ZOOM meeting with Stephanie de Bouard-Rivoal and heard her visions, style of wine etc., 2018 is very different from the style of her father's and 2020 as well. Elegant, much less oak, gentle extraction, sophisticated and staggeringly detailed, focused and precise.

Bourgneuf - finally, some wine critics recognize the quality rise at this property. Another woman reigns here, Frederique Vayron, since the 2008 vintage. 2020 is her best piece of work ever. Beautiful Pomerol, few steps after Clinet.

Petit Village - a woman winemaker again, Diana Berrouet Garcia. An unprecedented run of fine vintages since 2015. Stunning wines!

Carmes Haut Brion is one of my favourite wines in Bordeaux, and I don't think it's OK to call it names!

[JimHow]

Comte has indeed been to La Lagune, GBF, we have it on video... I guess that was Maylis we were with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3kZaUnaPF8

[Comte Flaneur]

Yes we did indeed Jim..

Have I visited La Lagune?? Ha! Does the bear shit in the woods?

Maylis de Labordiere welcomed us who had to defer to a masterclass from stefan.

Jim I think Maylis left not Caroline Frey.

We did not taste anything older than 2013, which was rubbish. But the 2012 was excellent.

I’m confused though. Stefan keeps saying La Lagune is rubbish, and you, Izak, say it is magnificent.

The last one I bought was the 2016.

Which is the best vintage out of 2016, 2019 and 2020? Am I right in thinking they made no 2018? And is 2017 a dark horse worth considering?

[greatbxfreak]

Maylis left and her reason was she and her boyfriend trying to find a new place to live and make wine at little property in Savoie.

She arrived in 2013 and it was her first vintage. Last was 2020. I think it was the best period for LL while she was there as cellar master. Leaving the hot seat too early. Women.....!

I think Stefan loves LL and he will have all of LL only for him. 2019 and 2020 are the best certainly, 2018 is 100% CS but won't be commercially available. Too little production. 2017 LL is certainly worth all attention and money!

[jckba]

Thanks Izak and it looks like I will have to track down some 2017 and then 2019 and 2020 to be able to put your order of preference to the test!

[AKR]

I have been ignoring the house of Jaboulet for a long time, but have started buying them again in the last year or so. Caroline Frey has really improved them. Distribution can be spotty for anything in the middle of their huge lineup - everything between the ubiquitous Parralle 45 and flagship La Chapelle - so one has to be a little alert.

It's kind of amazing to me that someone can be making good wines in the Rhone and Bordeaux, and not just on a traveling oenologue basis.

[stefan]

It is OK to say good things about young LL, but please tell people not to waste money on older vintages!

[JimHow]

Why did they not produce a La Lagune in 2018, and why was it 100% cab?
Was there hail or something?
Is 2018 a freaky vintage?
The only 2018 I've tried is the Haut Brisson, which I found stunning.

[greatbxfreak]

Jim,

Yes, LL had btw two hail storms, one in May and one in July.

Only a few good plots of CS were saved.

In some way, Caroline Frey maintained the style of La Lagune despite the hail. The soil played a big part in that.

2020 Haut Brisson is better. I wasn't so fond of 2018.

[Musigny 151]

Palmer out at $335. The 2019 was $225.

[Nicklasss]

Ouch, what a jump for Palmer.

Musigny 151, looking forward 2020 VCC price (rating of 99 i guess)?

[Tom In DC]

I had a rant about the discrepancy between scores at several wines in vintage 2020 on Facebook the other day.

Visiting the website of Farr Vintners, I saw a difference of 10 points between scores for one property. We are many wine critics right now, many indeed.

Must be a vast difference in tasting buds.

..

The last critic I remember who thought he could get away with saying effectively "Any critic who disagrees with me is wrong" was Robert Parker. He has been pilloried for this ever since.. In his defense, he probably had 50,000 PAID subscribers at the time.

[greatbxfreak]

But Bob has been the best wine critic, and this is indisputable.

He was a great wine writer/taster:

1. Who was not wearing the same clothes every year, neither training suit to attend tastings, neither work-out shoes for big dinners at different chateaux, neither wrote in boring language and who didn't announce after tasting one wine or was it three, that it was the best wine of the whole vintage.

I miss him a lot!

[PghMike]

Montrose released today at $182. Haut Bailly too at $140.

Picked up 3 2019 Montrose today at $137. Glad I already got 3 2019 Haut Bailly at $92.

[OrlandoRobert]

But Bob has been the best wine critic, and this is indisputable.

He was a great wine writer/taster:

1. Who was not wearing the same clothes every year, neither training suit to attend tastings, neither work-out shoes for big dinners at different chateaux, neither wrote in boring language and who didn't announce after tasting one wine or was it three, that it was the best wine of the whole vintage.

I miss him a lot!

That is a statement of opinion, not indisputable fact. There is a huge difference there.

I would posit that Bob was an excellent critic and commentator through the 1980s and into the 1990s, and then he fell apart. And he helped usher in a pretty bad era of wines, think 2007 Chateauneuf du Pape and 2005 St. Ems., and arguably ushered in the era of the ubiquitous modernist consultants like Rolland, Cambie, Bouard, et al.

I first broke up with Bob in 1999. Back then his worship of California Cults had become too much for me. I joined eBob around 2004/05 as wine blogging and wine websites had become quite popular, and it was a way to reconnect. I did not know then how his palate had changed and how this new class of wine that he was praising - modern, glossy, higher alcohol, darker fruit, more oak, etc. - would be so distasteful to me. I bought many of these modern St Ems and lots of CDP, and have since gotten rid of just about everyone single one of those. I have practically written off St Em as a Bordeaux appellation, and only up until recently, have I dipped back into the CDP market, buying Beaucastel, Charvin and Pegau.

I could go on and on here. And there are many others like me. Not everyone thinks Bob was a genius or the best ever. He was a man that was relevant for a short window, made a big impact on the wine industry, and then things devolved substantially. Hard to separate the failures from his successes in his legacy. And yes, he did have major successes.

I wish more “critics” would develop their own style. I prefer the critics like Gilman who call balls and strikes. It’s even gotten to the point that some of the critics’ notes read the same whether the Bordeaux is a classic stalwart or a modern concoction.

[JimHow]

Yeah I think that's about right, OB, I remember considering his 1996 left bank notes to be among some of his best work, and I think 1998 right bank was a great vintage and he produced nice work there accordingly, but I think by 2000 he was starting to get burned out and in the new century the damage to Bordeaux was done. There's no doubt he left his mark, the question is, was that a good thing or a bad thing.

[Musigny 151]

Parker’s final tally is somewhat spotty. He really stayed at the party long after he was useful, and in that final period, as Robert A wrote, he did an awful lot of damage. If he had retired in 1995, his legacy would have been extraordinary.

Even as a professional, I learned a huge amount from early Parker and was able to buy confidently based on his calls. A great example, 1979 Du Tertre which he scored in the high eighties (that was an excellent score then) but by the descriptors, I knew I would love the wine. Still have a couple of treasured bottles.

I am not sure what happened, but his palate and mine very quickly diverged. Not a little deviation, but enough that I stopped reading the newsletter and buying. I think it might have been ill health, and the prescription drugs he took, it might have been palate fatigue. Three times on my professional career have I tasted 100+ wines in a day. Apart from being an utterly miserable experience, apart from discarding most of my later notes, because I could not trust them, it took me several days to recover. And yet this kind of tasting was for him pretty routine for several decades.

I will mention that I was a long time member of a wine group. I left after twenty years because the older people only wanted to drink Turley and the like. There is a natural proclivity for some older drinkers to demand ever more alcohol, flavor, fruit etc. Sadly I think Parker was on that path.

[JimHow]

Good stuff, OB and Musigny-151.
My claim to fame with RMP was an email exchange, and a recognition of BWE as "one of the best wine websites on the internet" in one of his books.
Ah, those were heady days, but they seem so frivolous now.
Sipping on a 2016 Corbin this evening on the back deck, on a spectacular June summer Maine evening.
I have seen exactly two mosquitoes, zero black flies, and about 6 moths so far this summer, this is a completely bizarre phenomenon.
The irony? My friends Orlando Robert, Musigny 151, and GBF are divided on Annabelle's wines.
Musigny and GBF love her modern wines, OB thinks they are too modern.
Myself, as much as I love OB's palate, I agree with Musigny and OBF on the modern Corbins, I think they are an outstanding value in right bank Bordeaux.
The 2016 is excellent to outstanding.

[OrlandoRobert]

Great post, boys!

Mark’s palate is golden, follow his over mine! Yea I think the Corbin is glossy for my country, clunky palate. Tasty, but not something I buy again. Felt the same about the Siran y’all were raving about. I’d take the old Siran all day long.

I like classic wines. Honestly, I like slightly rustic wines.

Drinking a 99-point Super Tuscan right now. Does not move me one iota. Not bad. Quite good, just has no soul. I need soul. Think, Magdelaine, Levet, Sociando, Rougeard, Juge, Raffault, Benetiere, Jaugueyron, Lanessan pre-2015, Jamet, Baudry, Allemand, Figeac pre-2014, et al. Bring back the Cordier wines of the 1980s baby!

My cellar is narrow, I like what I like, lol.

[jal]

I will mention that I was a long time member of a wine group. I left after twenty years because the older people only wanted to drink Turley and the like. There is a natural proclivity for some older drinkers to demand ever more alcohol, flavor, fruit etc. Sadly I think Parker was on that path.

Certainly not in my case, as I get older, the alcohol bothers me more and more, the result is I can only drink wine with food and I abhor syrupy alcoholic fruit bombs. Heck, my last Turley was probably fifteen sixteen years ago.

Tonight with roasted Sockeye salmon, we are drinking a lovely perfumed 2017 Pierre Guillemot red Bourgogne, light colored and light bodied but so elegant and floral.

[JimHow]

Ha I had sockeye salmon tonight... with Maine oysters, red hot radishes, fresh asparagus, and... les pie de la whoopee.... with a 2016 Chateau Corbin. The salmon is mouth-watering.

We have some BWEers coming up to the Great State of Maine next week!

[OrlandoRobert]

I will mention that I was a long time member of a wine group. I left after twenty years because the older people only wanted to drink Turley and the like. There is a natural proclivity for some older drinkers to demand ever more alcohol, flavor, fruit etc. Sadly I think Parker was on that path.

Certainly not in my case, as I get older, the alcohol bothers me more and more, the result is I can only drink wine with food and I abhor syrupy alcoholic fruit bombs. Heck, my last Turley was probably fifteen sixteen years ago.

Tonight with roasted Sockeye salmon, we are drinking a lovely perfumed 2017 Pierre Guillemot red Bourgogne, light colored and light bodied but so elegant and floral.

My dad’s arc followed Mark’s trajectory, say age 65-75, and now at 81, and still healthy and enjoying the good life, is back to classic, nuanced wines. So funny as a few years back he thought 07 Clos de Papes and Janasse were the Holy Grails. I guess in truth, our palates are just not static.

[greatbxfreak]

Jim,

You should drink white dry Bx or sweet Bx to your salmon and oysters, mot a red wine.

Corbin isn't a modern wine. At max semi-modern. Modern for me means extracted, tannic and "in your face".

I tasted last week Corbin Michotte 2020, neighbour to Corbin, and it was a beautiful one. Different in style than Corbin and more traditional old school St.Emilion. It was very juicy, vibrant and luscious. I hope it will come back to GCC next year when the new classification arrives.

[JimHow]

Ha, ha, yes, I have been told that many times, Izak.
When we go out for oysters in Washington, D.C., with Stefan and Lucie, Stefan usually brings a nice white Burgundy or two, but also a red Burgundy or Oregon pinot as well....

[OrlandoRobert]

Jim,

You should drink white dry Bx or sweet Bx to your salmon and oysters, mot a red wine.

Corbin isn't a modern wine. At max semi-modern. Modern for me means extracted, tannic and "in your face".

I tasted last week Corbin Michotte 2020, neighbour to Corbin, and it was a beautiful one. Different in style than Corbin and more traditional old school St.Emilion. It was very juicy, vibrant and luscious. I hope it will come back to GCC next year when the new classification arrives.

Love hearing the comments on the Corbin Michotte, I have a soft spot for this Chateau. Any changes in winemaking, or just a product of the vintage?

Thanks!

PS. Yea, Jimbo is crazy like that. We can only sigh, roll our eyes and humor him. I was thinking the same thing, oysters and fish with Bordeaux, yuk. And pie, major yuk. Definitely needed a crisp white Bdx or a higher acid Cru Beaujolais (at least with the salmon, a very decent pairing). The pie, just pitch it!

[JimHow]

Oooooh, the Maine whoopee pie with a fine northern Medoc....
Ha, you do not know what you are missing....

Although, Francois and Nicolas, for starters, would agree with you that it is a ridiculous match.

[Blanquito]

For me, when Parker first started to stray was when in the late '90's/early '00's wine makers, by hiring several famous enologists (one in particular), overtly started changing their wines to get Parker Points. Before that, Parker had his proclivities like preferring the riper vintages, but he was a useful barometer of wine's style. We had a good idea what it mean to be "Bordeaux" and what the range in style was around that.

Then the ground started to move under our feet, but it took me a long while (~10 years maybe... I don't drink my Bordeaux young, as you may have heard) to realize just how much and how systematically the style was changing along the Gironde. Suddenly a 95 pt Parker wine, a very big score when I first got into wine in a serious way, could mean several things wildly different things stylistically and he often made it hard to tell in his notes which was which.

Shortly thereafter, the train pretty derailed entirely with grade inflation, climate change, Parker's palate falling apart seemingly overnight, Parker cosy up to wine makers and chateau owners (something he used to brag about never doing, unlike the "British wine press" with the boots of their cars filled with cases of free "samples"), etc, etc.

[Blanquito]

P.S. I consider both the current Sirans and Corbins mid-modern, definitely not old school/traditional/rustic. I wouldn't call them soulless, but they ain't your dad's claret either.

[greatbxfreak]

Still same people at Corbin Michotte.

They make a rare Pomerol, Cantelauze, which is several parcels in mid-Pomerol. 2020 was impressive stuff and up to Corbin Michotte's quality. Very significant black winter truffle scent.

You guys should also look after Bourgneuf 2020, called by Antonio Galloni from Vinous, the most improved Pomerol right now. For me, it's the best Bourgneuf ever made. Clinet is on a roll too, and fairly priced.

Clos de Jacobins and Laroze in St.Emilion are splendid.

Seguin in Pessac Leognan, Boyd Cantenac in Margaux, Lamothe Bergeron in Haut Medoc, Tour des Termes in Saint Estephe, Fonbadet and Pauillac in Pauillac, Moulin Riche in St. Julien, Clarisse Cuvee VV and Roc Becot in Puisseguin St.Emilion, etc. My hidden treasures.

[OrlandoRobert]

I’ve been a longtime fan of Bourgneuf! Rustic elegance. Just got in 12 x 375 of the 2015. Need to grab some more releases!

[Musigny 151]

An interest factoid. Annabelle once told me a long time before she was in charge, the Corbin group was given the choice of the Pomerol or Saint Emilion appellation and chose Saint Emilion.

[JimHow]

When we visited Annabelle Cruze Bardinet in 2015, I told her... we met you a couple times back in 2004-2005 in NYC.
She didn't remember us.
Timmy then pulled up some pictures on his iPhone (none of which contained Musigny-151 in the pictures).
Ah... Do you know Mark Golodetz?
Oui oui!

[greatbxfreak]

Mark G,

She was offered, Certan Giraud and Corbin.

OrlandoRobert,

2018, 2019 and 2020 Bourgneuf are better than 2015.

Bourgneuf is consulted by Stephane Toutoundji from Thomas Duclos team.

[OrlandoRobert]

Mark G,

She was offered, Certan Giraud and Corbin.

OrlandoRobert,

2018, 2019 and 2020 Bourgneuf are better than 2015.

Bourgneuf is consulted by Stephane Toutoundji from Thomas Duclos team.

Interesting. An early disciple of Rolland. When did he become involved on this Chateau?

[greatbxfreak]

OrlandoRobert,

I met the guy in question during harvest 2012, so he must have been there a couple of years before.

Btw, one of my favourite wines at the moment went up almost 50% en primeur. It's Petit Village, and I think it's the new owners' decision. A bad one, for sure. I've great difficulty convincing myself that I should buy it. More expensive than Clinet now.

[AKR]

Mark G,

She was offered, Certan Giraud and Corbin.

OrlandoRobert,

2018, 2019 and 2020 Bourgneuf are better than 2015.

Bourgneuf is consulted by Stephane Toutoundji from Thomas Duclos team.

Poor Certan Giraud. But they really should have made better wines if they wanted to keep the name....

We drank a double mag of the 85 at the 'Necrophiliacs Ball' up in Vermont a lifetime ago.

Steve Hirshberg from Acton/Boston came up for that along with some others.

[Blanquito]

I had an 82 Girard Certan double blind a couple of months ago that was shockingly good. That’s the lone wine I’ve had from that address.

[AKR]

I've had 3-4 examples across various vintages - although never the 82 - and none of them would have (fairly) slotted in at anything beyond a B-. Still I like Pomerol, and will pay more for middling quality there, versus comps in other regions, like Washington State Merlot etc.

It's amazing & impressive that La Fleur Petrus has turned the old Certan Giraud vines into modern day gold.

[greatbxfreak]

AKR,

La Fleur Petrus has nothing to do with Certan Giraud! La Fleur Petrus got some old vines from Le Gay.

You obviously were thinking about Hosanna and Certan Marzelle.

I had a fabulous 1982 Certan Marzelle which was an exclusivity for a negociant but same wine (Certan Giraud).

[Musigny 151]

OrlandoRobert,

I met the guy in question during harvest 2012, so he must have been there a couple of years before.

Btw, one of my favourite wines at the moment went up almost 50% en primeur. It's Petit Village, and I think it's the new owners' decision. A bad one, for sure. I've great difficulty convincing myself that I should buy it. More expensive than Clinet now.

It is interesting how chateaux price themselves, and how careful they need to be to price itself at a new stratum. If the wine has triple 100 point reviews you can, but it is sheer foolishness to try and do it in 2020 with excellent but not extraordinary scores.

Let us see the problem. Since 2015 (and I am excluding 2014, which is as good but does not have the press) you have FIVE well regarded vintages. You have a pandemic and an uncertain economy. Most of your foreign clients have 10% less buying power because of weak currency. Inventory is huge as only 2019 had a really successful campaign, your competition was slightly more measured with their pricing etc etc.

I agree with you it was not a good move. I would go further and say that it was idiotic. My question is did the negotiants buy at this inflated price?

As a final note, and it may just be me, I have a problem taking any chateau seriously with a name that includes Petit. If it were called Grand Village, maybe it wouldn’t sound like an underachiever.