BWE Bordeaux 2022?

[Michael-P]

Are we reconstituting our 2020 trip for 2022?

Michael-P

[dstgolf]

M-P,

From where I sit I don't see that happening with any ease. I don't see the restrictions disappearing in France by the Spring and from Howards description of his experience transiting through CDG not fun. Personally I'd target 2023 to be on the safe side but I'm in for some arm twisting ! 2022 still runs the risk of being shut down again and I don't want to go through that hassle again. I lost the cost of my room in Bordeaux and Bergeron. I was promised a voucher that has yet to materialize from both places through Hotels.com.

[JimHow]

Well, let's just try to pull off the DC convention in October and see where we are at, both with the BWE group and the world citizenry.
Everything just seems so unstable to me right now and, like Danny said, Howard's posts have not exactly inspired hope for a smooth trip.
The problem for me is I have this insane court schedule in the next 6-9 months which is all-consuming, it should lighten up by the spring, but it is tough to make significant plans. For now, I have Oct 1st booked for BWE '21 and Nov 1st booked for my annual gathering with my law school buddies.

And I have some pilgrims making the pilgrimage to the Great State of Maine this weekend.... Safe travels, my pilgrims....

[DavidG]

I just hope we're not dealing with even greater case rates and more restrictions in the fall.

Between lower temps, ever evolving variants, and vaccine uncertainty, hesitancy, resistance, and/or dumbf*ckery we could be in for a long haul yet.

I think we limit October BWE DC to the vaccinated.

[JimHow]

Agreed.

[SF Ed]

I think we limit October BWE DC to the vaccinated.

+1

[Blanquito]

I think we limit October BWE DC to the vaccinated.

+1

For sure. And we should only let bordeaux lovers attend as well.

[Comte Flaneur]

None of these people https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ted-500784

[JimHow]

We're doomed. And I'm like not even joking.

[jal]

I think we limit October BWE DC to the vaccinated.

Ok, not that I’m against it, but why exactly? To be punitive? To set an example? To protect the vaccinated? The unvaccinated?

Seriously, I’m just curious

[SF Ed]

My POV would be to reduce my own personal risk getting infected.

[OrlandoRobert]

I think we limit October BWE DC to the vaccinated.

Things are currently evolving fast yet again. A couple weeks ago, I’m like, hey I’m vaccinated, no worries. Now I personally know two people that were vaccinated and still caught the new variant. Their symptoms are mild, fortunately, but still, shows to me that we all carry risk. My wife and son were both exposed this past week, my son came out clear on a Friday test result, waiting on my wife’s result. As a result, we are not seeing my parents this weekend, which is sad. I totally understand why you guys would ask those attending to confirm vaccination.

[Claudius2]

Folks
The efficacy of the common vaccines such as Pfizer, Moderna and Astra Zeneca is 88-95% against the earlier COVID variants. The local Govt here is suggesting the need for a third dose which is specifically developed for the Delta variant. The efficacy of existing vaccines against the Delta strain is likely to be only 60% though concrete data is not available yet.

I have received both Pfizer jabs though am under no allusion that I am entirely safe. The Delta variant is no more dangerous than the prior strains. Note that right from the start of the outbreak, there were two strains - the N and S and rhe two were found in China to coexist even in Dec 2019.

For those not into virology, viruses are very simple organisms and new variants occur due to random errors in cell replication. These mutations lead to the new strain having different effects. That is why the flu is different every year and getting a fax one year does not necessarily help the following year. So if I need a third jab so be it.

I am however getting a bit annoyed with the anti-vaxxers. COVID has already killed several million and is nowhere near done yet. I keep reading crap on my niece’s social media accounts that show she’s another conspiracy theorist and in any case, she was never any good at math or science.

The Singaporean Govt has also tested most of the freely available masks here. News is not so good as the common multi layer paper surgical masks reduce your chance of infection by only 19% and the cloth based masks which are very common here have been found to be ineffective. So don’t expect a mask to save you from COVID but at least the paper masks are better than nothing.

Surgical masks were never intended to avoid viruses in any case and their initial application was for TB and COVID virus cells are much smaller around 0.2 microns. The Delta variety is apparently a similar size.

At the moment I can’t easily travel anywhere as in the way back I’d be quarantined for 14-21 days not to mention the need for various tests. No thanks. The Govt here is suggesting that in a few months they may relax the quarantine requirement and if that happens I’m taking the first plane out of here. Singapore is not a nice place to be stuck indefinitely as it is so small.

I’m not commenting on the policy of only accepting vaccinated people to your US events other than to encourage everyone to get vaccinated ASAP. It is a much better form of protection than masks.

If anyone wants to read the official WHO report on the origins of COVID PM me as I’ve got it.

Regards
Mark

[stefan]

Lucie and I are in favor of requiring Covid vaccination for attending BWE events. Having all sorts of co-morbidities, we do not want to be around unvaccinated people.

[jal]

Ok, thanks. I got it. Basically it's a belief that even after being vaccinated, one is still vulnerable. But then other vaccinated people are carriers of the virus and can as easily infect others as unvaccinated people.

Honestly, I'm not trying to make any political statement one way or another. Jill and I are fully vaccinated twice now so I feel the risk of getting infected is small, and the risk of getting seriously ill if such infection happened are miniscule. I'm just trying to understand the rationale.

[DavidG]

Ok, thanks. I got it. Basically it's a belief that even after being vaccinated, one is still vulnerable. But then other vaccinated people are carriers of the virus and can as easily infect others as unvaccinated people.

Honestly, I'm not trying to make any political statement one way or another. Jill and I are fully vaccinated twice now so I feel the risk of getting infected is small, and the risk of getting seriously ill if such infection happened are miniscule. I'm just trying to understand the rationale.

I wasn’t being political or vindictive. Only interested in reducing risk.

The bolded part above is not accurate.
The vaccinated can transmit the virus, but are less likely to do so than the unvaccinated.
The vaccinated are vulnerable, but less vulnerable than the unvaccinated if exposed to COVID.

Requiring vaccination reduces risk of those attending spreading the disease to other attendees, even if the others are vaccinated.

[DavidG]

The Singaporean Govt has also tested most of the freely available masks here. News is not so good as the common multi layer paper surgical masks reduce your chance of infection by only 19% and the cloth based masks which are very common here have been found to be ineffective. So don’t expect a mask to save you from COVID but at least the paper masks are better than nothing.

Surgical masks were never intended to avoid viruses in any case and their initial application was for TB and COVID virus cells are much smaller around 0.2 microns. The Delta variety is apparently a similar size.

I’m not commenting on the policy of only accepting vaccinated people to your US events other than to encourage everyone to get vaccinated ASAP. It is a much better form of protection than masks.

Regards
Mark

Surgical masks are better than nothing, despite pore size > diameter of the virus and edge leaks.
A well-fit N95 mask is better than a surgical mask.
Vaccination is much better than any mask.

[jal]

Fair enough David. I am hearing of a lot of anecdotal evidence of vaccinated people getting infected. Happy to take extra precautions and not allow unvaccinated people into the convention, though I dont know any BWEers that have not been jabbed.

[DavidG]

Yes, Jacques, vaccination is not 100% protective against infection. I’ve seen ranges from 60-95% depending on study, population, vaccine, timing, etc. Even the low end is a solid success as vaccines go, and the Pfizer and Moderna versions tend to be on the high end.

Equally important, those who do get COVID are much more likely to be asymptomatic shedders or have mild disease if they have been vaccinated. The vaccinated have a very low risk of being hospitalized or dying compared to the unvaccinated.

[Claudius2]

David
I have tried N95 masks several times and can’t easily cope with them. It feels like I’m suffocating.
Yes I agree that they are more effective but seriously I feel like I’m going to die. They are recommended for smoke haze here whenever the Indonesians burn down what little forest area still remains in Borneo, Sumatra or Kalimantan. It was so bad in 2013 that I could not see the swimming pool from the front window and transport was shut down at times.

One issue with masks is that they need to be changed regularly and dirty masks can incubate other organisms. They are better than no mask at all but they cannot be solely relied on. Even worse, the huge demand for masks has also affected their quality and like everything else, many masks in Asia are terrible quality and some unscrupulous retailers have been found selling used masks which are obviously a source of contamination.

I’ve had two jabs of the Pfizer vaccine and will happily line up for a third if it becomes available to target the Delta variant. Unfortunately the Delta strain is causing havoc throughout many nations and particularly India (researchers here say that the actual death rate is 10 to 30 times the reported rate).

Cheers
Mark

[AKR]

My employer has started a voluntary return to office program, two days a week, for those who can prove they are vaccinated, and are willing to wear masks in the office. Of course, they don't actually have enough building capacity to fully socially distance, and they have not agreed on final terms with the unionized/collectively bargained workforce (union leadership doctrine is that any time the employer has a request, the union needs a quid pro quo from their standing list), so I'm not sure it means in practicality. We'd been initially told RTO happened in September, aligned with the local school systems, but now its being pushed back to October.

Our local school is determined to reopen - as parents are demanding - and has advised that kids who choose 'home schooling' will lose their slot in our desirable school if they want to return to in class learning later. The district will still provide a public education, but not necessarily at the current/preferred location.

[DavidG]

Even vaccinated, I’d work from home if that was an option.
Not really an option for medical practice. Tele-ophthalmology only goes so far. Glad I’m retired.

[gene m.]

Please put me on the list (or wait list if you are full) for 2023.
It's been about 10 years since my last Bordeaux visit.
I did a trip with CT group, Hamish Walker from UK and S. France was our guide.
It was a wonderful trip.