Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

Jim...

did you hear 2019 Lynch a natural successor to the 1989

"The Holy Grail"

I'm surprised you are not biting

Yeah I saw something about that, Emil. I also saw something about magnums at K&L in three bottle cases.
I'll wait til they come out in NH in the summer of, what, '22?, and I'll buy a few bottles then.

I'm tempted...very tempted but see phenomenal deals on La Lagune, Sociando, Gloria, GPL, Lagrange, D'Issan, Prieuré-Lichine, Lafon Rochet ....its like being a kid in a candy store...some first tranche pricing may be as low as pricing for the 2000 vintage when i last purchased futures...even at 2% annual inflation these are superb deals...

We need to remember that most, if not all, of these prices are not factoring in the tariffs, since they do not know what the situation will be in two years. I'm hopeful that the 25% tariff will be gone by then, but no guarantees.

Yes, tariffs could be gone, or they could be even higher by the time the wines are imported. I've been mentally tacking on an additional 25% when looking at offers and a lot of the prices are still tempting.

I'm tempted...very tempted but see phenomenal deals on La Lagune, Sociando, Gloria, GPL, Lagrange, D'Issan, Prieuré-Lichine, Lafon Rochet ....its like being a kid in a candy store...some first tranche pricing may be as low as pricing for the 2000 vintage when i last purchased futures...even at 2% annual inflation these are superb deals...

A 100 point 2019 Figeac at $169 at Zachy's is awfully tempting!

Not that I'm buying, but....

The "new" Chateau Figeac is gathering more 100 points since vintage 2015, that all those "old an ordinary" Figeac from 1982, 1990, 1998, 2000, 2005, and even 2009 and 2010.

Things can change overnight in Bordeaux. Probably since 2015, it is > 13.5 % alcohol wine, and not before.

Nic

Was it laughing in the face of mortality?
An assumption that tariffs will disappear?
Best prices in over 5 years?
Great reviews by the critics?
Enthusiastic reports from trusted palates like Mark G?
Enablement by the BWE devils? I am looking at you Stefan, Jim, and Nic!
Pent up demand?
Passion over logic?

Ultimately, it was plain old irrepressible Bordeaux wine enthusiasm.

I caved. Badly. I just hope I'm around to collect these, let alone drink them at maturity:

2019 Clinet
2019 Conseillante
2019 Haut Bailly
2019 Haut Brion
2019 Lynch Bages
2019 Montrose
2019 Palmer
2019 Talbot

Nice going, David!

DavidG wrote:Was it laughing in the face of mortality?
An assumption that tariffs will disappear?
Best prices in over 5 years?
Great reviews by the critics?
Enthusiastic reports from trusted palates like Mark G?
Enablement by the BWE devils? I am looking at you Stefan, Jim, and Nic!
Pent up demand?
Passion over logic?

Ultimately, it was plain old irrepressible Bordeaux wine enthusiasm.

I caved. Badly. I just hope I'm around to collect these, let alone drink them at maturity:

2019 Clinet
2019 Conseillante
2019 Haut Bailly
2019 Haut Brion
2019 Lynch Bages
2019 Montrose
2019 Palmer
2019 Talbot

Yup. Crazy as a loon!

You should have at least hedged with Figeac, as it will not be subject to any tariff!

I am proud of you David.
Very, very well done indeed!

DavidG wrote:Was it laughing in the face of mortality?
An assumption that tariffs will disappear?
Best prices in over 5 years?
Great reviews by the critics?
Enthusiastic reports from trusted palates like Mark G?
Enablement by the BWE devils? I am looking at you Stefan, Jim, and Nic!
Pent up demand?
Passion over logic?

Ultimately, it was plain old irrepressible Bordeaux wine enthusiasm.

I caved. Badly. I just hope I'm around to collect these, let alone drink them at maturity:

2019 Clinet
2019 Conseillante
2019 Haut Bailly
2019 Haut Brion
2019 Lynch Bages
2019 Montrose
2019 Palmer
2019 Talbot

Nice group of Bordeaux for sure. If that 2019 Clinet is vetter than the 2015, you can't be wrong.

I guess you won't have any regrets.and i'm looking to the price here and the difficult dilemma what to buy.

Nic

Comte Flaneur wrote:So so far I have been out of control, I bought:

Pontet Canet, 1 x 12 x 375
Lynch Bages, 2 x 12 X 375, 1 x 6 x 750, 1 x 12 x 750 - the method in my madness is that my sixth sense tells me it will be the spiritual successor to the 1989 ...”son of” ... the next generation with the magic ‘#9’ leitmotif that will inherit that Holy Grail.
Conseillante 1 x 12 x 375
Figeac 1 x 12 x 375
D’Issan 1 x 12 x 375
Leoville Barton 1x 12 x 375
Clinet 1 x 6 x 750

...and the fat lady ain’t started singing yet...

Jim, if you gave David a "very well done indeed" then Ian deserves like a special triple-strength VWDI from the master for this post, which may be one of the all-time great BWE en primeur posts:

• * 108 bottles purchased on first tranche
  
  * post ends with "I'm not done yet"
  
  * massive Lynch Bages purchase justified by comparing a not-yet-bottled wine that the purchaser has never tasted to the hallowed 1989 Lynch Bages based solely on the last digit of the year

A masterwork!

Don't you worry David..

Plan to live to a 100...build your cellar to last you for another 25 years....it will all come true..

DavidG wrote:Was it laughing in the face of mortality?
An assumption that tariffs will disappear?
Best prices in over 5 years?
Great reviews by the critics?
Enthusiastic reports from trusted palates like Mark G?
Enablement by the BWE devils? I am looking at you Stefan, Jim, and Nic!
Pent up demand?
Passion over logic?

Ultimately, it was plain old irrepressible Bordeaux wine enthusiasm.

I caved. Badly. I just hope I'm around to collect these, let alone drink them at maturity:

2019 Clinet
2019 Conseillante
2019 Haut Bailly
2019 Haut Brion
2019 Lynch Bages
2019 Montrose
2019 Palmer
2019 Talbot

Holy moly, David. Is there really no hope?

Ok, I just did a price check... the wine that caught my eye immediately? The 2019 Branaire, a chateau whose style I still firmly trust, at $38-$39! And the 2019 d’Issan for $48! And the 2019 Brane Cantenac for $55! And the 2019 Cantemerle for $25!

Tempting!

Blanquito wrote:Ok, I just did a price check... the wine that caught my eye immediately? The 2019 Branaire, a chateau whose style I still firmly trust, at $38-$39! And the 2019 d’Issan for $48! And the 2019 Brane Cantenac for $55! And the 2019 Cantemerle for $25!

Tempting!

Wow, basically back to 2014 pricing! Wonder what Sociando comes out at. The wildcard, of course, is the 25% tariff.

Yes, you have to check the tariff policies. Some are willing to split them 50/50, others will pass them all on to you but give you the option to bail out.

K&L's prices are quite competitive for 2019 futures (and their shipping rates are excellent, FWIW), and they are offering the option of a full refund if the tariffs are still in effect when these get bottled and shipped.

Sociando is $30 at K&L.

Do you think you'll like the 2019 style as much as the 2014 style, Robert? I haven't read anything about how the 2019s will show. Is it an Atlantic vintage or a Mediterranean one?

From my understanding it is more Mediterranean / solar and also most of the prices are higher than 2014.

3 bottles of Grand Puy Lacoste, my first ever Futures order.

marcs wrote:From my understanding it is more Mediterranean / solar and also most of the prices are higher than 2014.

So maybe shave a few points off the hype if you’ve got a "classic, cool climate" palate or more "AFWE" leanings?

Your pricing comment prompted me to do a little digging because my offxthe-cuff impression was that we were back to 2014 prices. I looked at CellarTracker, WineSearcher, and a couple of retailer sites like K&L that keep historic pricing. I am not sure how accurate or comprehensive my results are, but comparing what I paid for the 2019s I ordered to the prices of the same 2014s (some likely futures prices, some likely on release?), I found:

Haut Brion went down in price 0-10%
Palmer went down 15-20%
Montrose went down 0-10%
Lynch Bages went down 0-20%
Haut Bailly went up 25-30%
Clinet went up 0-7%
Conseillante went up 55-65%
Talbot went down 0-12%

At least for this small group, most of the 2019s were priced lower or the same as their 2014 counterparts. The exceptions from my list were Haut Bailly and Conseillante, which were well above 2014 levels but still quite a bit lower than the intervening years.

Second order..

2019 Lynch-Bages 1 btl
2019 d'Armailhac 3 btls
2019 Clerc Milon 2 btls
2019 Duhart-Milon 2 btls

DavidG wrote:

marcs wrote:From my understanding it is more Mediterranean / solar and also most of the prices are higher than 2014.

So maybe shave a few points off the hype if you’ve got a "classic, cool climate" palate or more "AFWE" leanings?

Your pricing comment prompted me to do a little digging because my offxthe-cuff impression was that we were back to 2014 prices. I looked at CellarTracker, WineSearcher, and a couple of retailer sites like K&L that keep historic pricing. I am not sure how accurate or comprehensive my results are, but comparing what I paid for the 2019s I ordered to the prices of the same 2014s (some likely futures prices, some likely on release?), I found:

Haut Brion went down in price 0-10%
Palmer went down 15-20%
Montrose went down 0-10%
Lynch Bages went down 0-20%
Haut Bailly went up 25-30%
Clinet went up 0-7%
Conseillante went up 55-65%
Talbot went down 0-12%

At least for this small group, most of the 2019s were priced lower or the same as their 2014 counterparts. The exceptions from my list were Haut Bailly and Conseillante, which were well above 2014 levels but still quite a bit lower than the intervening years.

I'm pretty sure that first tranche prices for 2019 are also significantly higher for Pichon Baron, Pichon Lalande, Leoville Barton, Cos d'Estournel, Calon Segur, and others. This is just from memory though. There were amazing deals in 2014, Leoville Barton was about $50 on release and both Pichons were under $100. Compare $73 for 2019 Barton, $130 for 2019 Pichon Baron, and $144 for the 2019 PLL (I got 2014 Lalande for $90 on first tranche, wish I'd bought more!)

Not sure 2019 will actually be a better vintage than 2014 for a traditional palate. 2014, STILL UNDERRATED!

marcs wrote:

DavidG wrote:

marcs wrote:From my understanding it is more Mediterranean / solar and also most of the prices are higher than 2014.

So maybe shave a few points off the hype if you’ve got a "classic, cool climate" palate or more "AFWE" leanings?

Your pricing comment prompted me to do a little digging because my offxthe-cuff impression was that we were back to 2014 prices. I looked at CellarTracker, WineSearcher, and a couple of retailer sites like K&L that keep historic pricing. I am not sure how accurate or comprehensive my results are, but comparing what I paid for the 2019s I ordered to the prices of the same 2014s (some likely futures prices, some likely on release?), I found:

Haut Brion went down in price 0-10%
Palmer went down 15-20%
Montrose went down 0-10%
Lynch Bages went down 0-20%
Haut Bailly went up 25-30%
Clinet went up 0-7%
Conseillante went up 55-65%
Talbot went down 0-12%

At least for this small group, most of the 2019s were priced lower or the same as their 2014 counterparts. The exceptions from my list were Haut Bailly and Conseillante, which were well above 2014 levels but still quite a bit lower than the intervening years.

I'm pretty sure that first tranche prices for 2019 are also significantly higher for Pichon Baron, Pichon Lalande, Leoville Barton, Cos d'Estournel, Calon Segur, and others. This is just from memory though. There were amazing deals in 2014, Leoville Barton was about $50 on release and both Pichons were under $100. Compare $73 for 2019 Barton, $130 for 2019 Pichon Baron, and $144 for the 2019 PLL (I got 2014 Lalande for $90 on first tranche, wish I'd bought more!)

Not sure 2019 will actually be a better vintage than 2014 for a traditional palate. 2014, STILL UNDERRATED!

No doubt it will vary by wine. Price was one of the reasons I picked the wines I did over the Pichons, etc., which I also love.

I particularly agree on the bolded part. I should have bought more 2014s than I did. I hope they remain underrated, as that will make them great backfilling candidates once mature.

I've jumped back on the train as well

I am certainly crazy and am also a certified Bordeaux nut in his 30s and recently moved to a home with functional underground passive storage conditions that have been working well so far. To answer the question of "why?" that may answer some of it - since 2014 I have seen the most accessible pricing of my bordeaux-drinking lifetime for the Pauillac/St. Julien and all Bordeaux that I love. 2019 dipped back close to that 2014 level once again for some (Lynch, Pontet Canet).

There's some price speculation, and I agree with some of the currency devaluation currently occurring and will occur in the future - so far I have not regretted any of the plunges to build a cellar of wines that I love

2014s were my first huge plunge into futures, as I was seeing a price inefficiency after a few less-than-exciting vintages. A few cases each of '14 PLL and '14 Ducru will always be a memorable purchase
2015s I went half-in. Cases of Pontet Canet, Leoville Barton, and PLL. Lots of entry-level Margaux for value drinking.
2016s Absolutely all-in. 25 cases. Will be a legendary vintage IMO
2017s Zero purchases
2018s Limped in. Limited purchases for exposure to PLL, Lynch, and Pontet Canet. All-in on Les Carmes HB - we'll see. Worried about elevated abv across the board
2019s All-in on Lynch, PLL, and Pontet Canet so far! Some Calon Segur because I loved the 2016 so much, but concerned again about abv.

Wow, 25 cases of 2016s! That might be as much or more than Jim - I am humbled by the both of you.

tiesface, you will have a lot of Bordeaux wines maturing in about 20-25 years! Let us know if you need help keeping up with them.

I purchased mostly mags of:

LLC
Montrose
PLB
Malescot
Chevalier
LMHB
Calon-Ségur
Poyferre
HB (6x750ml)

Planning to pick up some PLL too. The sad thing is that I had no intention of purchasing any 2019s until all the hysteria broke out around the good vintage and pricing!

Of course, JCNorthway! I can't do this alone I am seeing some successful BWE events in the future

Well done, BigTex! I like to grab some large formats (and splits) with futures.

Speaking of, I worked with Fine Wines International for a rate reduction on their 2016 GPL in-stock and made a purchase today. They updated the rates on their actual website and I noticed they are still updated. I have only ordered from them 2-3 times but they offer free shipping which is a nice bonus. GPL is $84/btl 750ml and $168 per magnum - with fees that is less than the 2016 futures price. Lots of deals in this environment, but I really like the '16 Pauillacs. I think you will even like this GPL, Jim! It's a winner.

https://www.finewinesinternational.com/ ... ance-750ml

Alex and others
I am trying hard not to buy any 2019 EP's.
However, my endurance is failing.
Which 2019's in the medium price bracket (no 1st, super seconds, et al) on both banks do you recommend?
Not all the usual suspects have tried them and I am wondering if JS and one or two others suits my palate in any case.

I am thinking more about wines such as Branaire Ducru, Malescot, Giscours, Lagrange, La Lagune, etc.
I may splurge on one super second but no more.

I like your list Mark. In that price range I’d think about:

Domaine de Chevalier (too modern?)
D'Issan
Du Tertre
Grand Puy Lacoste (don’t tell Jim!)
Lafon Rochet
Malartic Lagravière
Malescot St Exupery
Talbot

I actually like the ones you listed better. Except maybe Talbot.

Did silly (last time was 2015...)
Canon 3 bottles
then 12 halves each of
Branaire Ducru, Chevalier, Gaffeliere and Clinet
A lot of earlier maturing halves then...

David,
Thanks for the ideas.
I have several importers spamming me several times a day whenever a new wine is released. The prices are quite good at the moment so I intend to buy a few.
Funny, I have never seen Dom de Chevalier as modern. Has it recently changed???
I have a case of 09 and 10 each but have not tried either (in any case, they are right at the back of the storage unit).

Some of the wines you mention I have not bought for decades. Last vintage I bought Du Tertre was 2000, and the last Talbot was 1989 (and it was a weird wine and put me off it).

Was 2019 good in the right bank as well, or more a left bank vintage?
I've heard good stories about the Medocs and Graves but hardly a word about the right bank.

Mark, DdC is a bit on the ripe and glossy side but not over the top unless you're really averse.
I like Talbot but it remains a shadow of its 1980s glory.
Honestly, I kind of liked the ones you listed and would put them at the top of my list.
Of course, having tasted none of them my recommendations are based solely on past history.

You’ve probably seen these posted in other threads, but here are a couple of write-ups from Antonio Galloni and Neal Martin. Martin doesn’t seem to feel that either bank is head and shoulders above the other in 2019.

https://vinous.com/articles/uncertain-s ... 9-jun-2020

https://vinous.com/articles/2019-bordea ... p-jun-2020

Interesting article.
I am a little confused and surprised that it says the wines are NOT for keeping and try in 4-5 years.
Is that true???

Claudius2 wrote:Interesting article.
I am a little confused and surprised that it says the wines are NOT for keeping and try in 4-5 years.
Is that true???

Who knows? Not me. I plan to give a few a try on arrival and let the bulk of them rest 10 years or more. Apparently the lab tests say there are plenty of tannins.

My interpretation of what Neal Martin says about timing differs from what I think you’ve taken from it. This is what he wrote:

7) Longevity. That’s the $64,000 question. Many winemakers stressed that their wines must appeal to those who are not inclined to cellar bottles over many years. The 2019s are amazingly approachable, hence my drinking windows advising you could broach many of these wines after just four or five years of bottle age. While I understand the wish to appease oenophiles less disposed to cellar fine wine, it risks denying the next generation the pleasures of fully mature Bordeaux replete with all the nuances and secondary aromas/flavors that only time imparts. Most winemakers are convinced that their 2019s have the structure to also age 20–30 or more years. Time will tell.

Yup, time will tell. Assuming we don’t drink them all up after they hit 4-5 years of age. I’m confident that won’t happen.

I just received my first e-mail that the Futures sale is coming here. Our liquorstore is always trying to boost the enthusiast of buyers, to sell the wines at a higher price than elsewhere. We'll see.

Nic

Guys
I have now finalised the 2019 EP order. I am not interested anymore in buying the 1st growths, super seconds or garagiste wines.
So I bought the following:

Graves/Pessac:
Domaine de Chevalier
Malarctic Lagraviere

Margaux:
Du Tertre
D'Issan
Prieure Lichine
Marquis D'Alesme (I could not get Malescot St Exupery so I took this instead)

St Julien:
Braniare Ducru
Lagrange

Haut Medoc:
La Lagune
Sociando Mallet

Pauillac:
Haut Bages Liberal

St Emilion:
Laroque
Lafleur Cardinale
Bellefont Belcier
Clos de L'oratoire

As Jim would say: Well done. Well done indeed!