Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:22 pm**

You're reading my mind, Nicola, although after 21 years it may finally be time for a Pomerol.

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:46 pm**

Maybe we need a winery of the year award also. To acknowledge a currently overachieving winery each year. Nicola's suggestion of Clerc Milon might fit well for such an award.
Best, Dan

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:51 pm**

Issan would be my choice. They are quietly making some excellent Bordeaux at a really good price point given the quality. Never given much credit, but my go to recommendation when asked for value in Bordeaux

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:56 pm**

IMO it’s time for a Pomerol. And Conseillante is that Pomerol.

Of course my opinion is not the one that matters…

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2021 4:59 pm**

Lol... You make a compelling case, Marcus.
You are also up against some tough competition.
One thing is for certain: There will be no co-winners this year.

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:05 pm**

Imagine the Brady Bellichick Patriots losing on purpose because the Jets haven't won in a while, or the 60s Celtics, or the Sox.
If you think the WOTY should be the best wine, pick the best wine regardless of appellation.
Just pot stirring

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:12 pm**

As per the thread initiated by Mark, what about 98 VCC? Most of us have had it, and it would kill so many birds with one stone. It would 1/ recognise the brilliance of 98 RBs, 2/ be the first Pomerol to win this prestigious, internationally acclaimed, accolade and 3/ recognise the brilliance of VCC…which has been on fire…since the 1998 vintage.

You could do two out of these three by awarding it to the 2014 VCC and only one by awarding it to the 2014 Conseillante, an also ran in its own stable.

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:12 pm**

You are correct, Jacques.
I cannot allow my kindness and benevolence to interfere in the decision.

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:15 pm**

Interestingly, Comte, we have never had a wine from the 1998 right bank vintage, a vintage that rivals the 2005 Burgundy vintage as the greatest vintage, from any region, ever.

Posted: **Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:24 pm**

I’ve had the 1998 VCC twice this past year, it’s an astonishingly excellent wine. I’d still pick a more current vintage, with the 2014 VCC being the front-runner in my mind. I’d actually recommend something even more current so people can actually track it down more readily. I unfortunately I have not tried any 2018s and my only 2017 has been a Le Pin.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:00 am**

jal wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:05 pm Imagine the Brady Bellichick Patriots losing on purpose because the Jets haven't won in a while, or the 60s Celtics, or the Sox.
If you think the WOTY should be the best wine, pick the best wine regardless of appellation.
Just pot stirring

I would say like Jacques: please no pity when choosing a BWE WOTY. Choose the best BWE wine from Bordeaux.

Merlot being Merlot, that grape can surely do great wines in the Bordeaux area, but there is a reason why Pomerol wines don't have a classification (iron and truffle mushrooms are appealing in a wine, i mean really?)... or why Saint Émilion classification is a real mess (people making lot of money with glossy Merlot garage wines, using their money to buy a classification for their wine)... and Cabernet Sauvignon wines from the Left Bank have a classification that is recognized since 1855 and even before, and all countries in the World have been trying to "copy" those Left Bank Cabernet Sauvignon wines for many years... without any success...

Reason is truth. Truth is great. Great are Left Bank Cabernet Sauvignon wines from Bordeaux.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:15 am**

Nicklasss wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:00 am
jal wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:05 pm Imagine the Brady Bellichick Patriots losing on purpose because the Jets haven't won in a while, or the 60s Celtics, or the Sox.
If you think the WOTY should be the best wine, pick the best wine regardless of appellation.
Just pot stirring
I would say like Jacques: please no pity when choosing a BWE WOTY. Choose the best BWE wine from Bordeaux.

Merlot being Merlot, that grape can surely do great wines in the Bordeaux area, but there is a reason why Pomerol wines don't have a classification (iron and truffle mushrooms are appealing in a wine, i mean really?)... or why Saint Émilion classification is a real mess (people making lot of money with glossy Merlot garage wines, using their money to buy a classification for their wine)... and Cabernet Sauvignon wines from the Left Bank have a classification that is recognized since 1855 and even before, and all countries in the World have been trying to "copy" those Left Bank Cabernet Sauvignon Left Bank wines for many years... without any success...

Reason is truth. Truth is great. Great are Left Bank Cabernet Sauvignon wines from Bordeaux.

Haha, I f’ng love this post!!! We can disagree about Pomerol, but the post is classic!

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:03 am**

I'm more like Nic in my preference for the Left Bank, but one of the best wines I've ever had was the 2000 Peby Faugeres.
I don't think I've ever drank any Bordeaux in vintages between 1990-1999.

Now I almost regret not buying one bottle of 2014 VCC when I picked up JC's case in Massachusetts. I think JC left a couple on the shelf, but I had already spent close to $1000 on a mixed case of closeouts (like '14 Montrose for $100) and, it being December, the purchase was entirely over budget.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 12:26 pm**

JimHow wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:15 pm Interestingly, Comte, we have never had a wine from the 1998 right bank vintage, a vintage that rivals the 2005 Burgundy vintage as the greatest vintage, from any region, ever.

1998 RB was the theme for our 2018 BWE Convention. A lot of wines showed really well.

1998 VCC is a great wine that many of us have had.

OTOH, in recent years you’ve been picking wines that tend to be still available at retail. Not sure if that is still a consideration.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:04 pm**

True. Generally we pick wines recently released and still available at retail, like Barde Haut and Tour St. Christophe. Every so often we deviate.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:56 pm**

2014 Conseillante is one of the single best deals in high level Bordeaux still available at retail in bottle. It is widely available for about $110.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:21 pm**

marcs wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:56 pm 2014 Conseillante is one of the single best deals in high level Bordeaux still available at retail in bottle. It is widely available for about $110.

A serious challenge to the buying freeze.
Patrick’s already caved, feels like I’m hangin' by a thread out here alone…

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:55 pm**

marcs wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:56 pm 2014 Conseillante is one of the single best deals in high level Bordeaux still available at retail in bottle. It is widely available for about $110.

Gosh darn it, like David, now I gotta grab more. What retailers at $110?

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:07 pm**

Gerry and I got it for under $90 in NH, but it is long gone.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:11 pm**

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:55 pm
marcs wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:56 pm 2014 Conseillante is one of the single best deals in high level Bordeaux still available at retail in bottle. It is widely available for about $110.
Gosh darn it, like David, now I gotta grab more. What retailers at $110?

Just hit winesearcher, there are four retailers selling at $110-115/bottle.

I have 9 bottles already and I'm trying to resist getting more...

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:16 pm**

Hmmm $1,367 for a case of 2014 La Conseillante at Saratoga.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:37 pm**

I always like to add some facts to help my very good friend Jimhow to take his decision for the BWE WOTY...

I did a little search in BWE and here are Jimhow ratings for 3 wines:

2014 Chateau La Conseillante : 95 pts
2014 Vieux Château Certan : 97 pts
2014 Chateau Clerc Milon : 97+ pts.

And the last one is probably the more available and the cheaper of the 3...

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:05 pm**

Well done Nic. Could the dark horse candidate 2014 Clerc Milon surprise us all with a win? Stay tuned!

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:14 pm**

My case of BAMA just arrived, so you guys better clean out the stocks of 2014 Conseillante before temptation gets the better of me and I end up in hot water.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:13 pm**

That 2014 La Conseillante sure is tempting. May have to swing it. If any local DC area BWE'ers want to split a case, let me know.

And as much as I love La Conseillante(at least the top vintages, haven't tried many off vintages). I think it's time to get a VCC up there. The 2014 over the 1998 for this one. When a bunch of great palates on the board all rave about it, especially when its young. I think we have something here. It's still reasonable enough that everyone could own at least a bottle, and the price keeps increasing. Whether that be from the quality of the product or Musigny shouting from the rooftops all over the message boards

The Clerc is a sleeper but it appears that not many have tried it. I haven't been here long, but I think that part matters.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:36 pm**

post by JimHow » Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:16 am

Hmmm $1,367 for a case of 2014 La Conseillante at Saratoga.

And it ships free!

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:55 pm**

The 1998 VCC came fourth tonight. Nothing wrong with it, but the 2001 VCC showed a bit better, and was a classier wine, while the LLC 1982 was the star of the show. The 1996 LLC just edged the 2001 VCC for second spot, a junior version of the 1982, on the same evolutionary track. I think the 2014 VCC is a better wine than the 1998, based on most recent experience.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:17 pm**

Comte Flaneur wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:55 pm The 1998 VCC came fourth tonight. Nothing wrong with it, but the 2001 VCC showed a bit better, and was a classier wine, while the LLC 1982 was the star of the show. The 1996 LLC just edged the 2001 VCC for second spot, a junior version of the 1982, on the same evolutionary track. I think the 2014 VCC is a better wine than the 1998, based on most recent experience.

Nice recent testimony Comte. I'm with you and very ok with 1982 or 1996 Château Léoville Las Cases as BWE 2021 WOTY.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:18 pm**

Comte Flaneur wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:55 pm The 1998 VCC came fourth tonight. Nothing wrong with it, but the 2001 VCC showed a bit better, and was a classier wine, while the LLC 1982 was the star of the show. The 1996 LLC just edged the 2001 VCC for second spot, a junior version of the 1982, on the same evolutionary track. I think the 2014 VCC is a better wine than the 1998, based on most recent experience.

Wow, thanks for that, I’ll check into 96. I had the 82 in October and it edged the Mouton and the La Mish to me that night.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:31 pm**

JoelD wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:13 pm That 2014 La Conseillante sure is tempting. May have to swing it. If any local DC area BWE'ers want to split a case, let me know.

I'm in. Just don’t tell anyone I bailed on the freeze.

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:33 pm**

DavidG wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:31 pm
JoelD wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:13 pm That 2014 La Conseillante sure is tempting. May have to swing it. If any local DC area BWE'ers want to split a case, let me know.
I'm in. Just don’t tell anyone I bailed on the freeze.

Didn’t you just get a case of BAMA because some other yak palate motivated you?!?

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:48 pm**

DavidG wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:31 pm
JoelD wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:13 pm That 2014 La Conseillante sure is tempting. May have to swing it. If any local DC area BWE'ers want to split a case, let me know.
I'm in. Just don’t tell anyone I bailed on the freeze.

I've been bailing on the freeze almost every day. Justifying it by buying piecemeal with big deals. Just got 2 bottles of L'Evangile 2014 for about 110 a pop.

Can't decide if I should convince Marcus to join in on this to cut my overhead down, or if I should really have at least 6 bottles....

Posted: **Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:50 pm**

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:18 pm
Comte Flaneur wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:55 pm The 1998 VCC came fourth tonight. Nothing wrong with it, but the 2001 VCC showed a bit better, and was a classier wine, while the LLC 1982 was the star of the show. The 1996 LLC just edged the 2001 VCC for second spot, a junior version of the 1982, on the same evolutionary track. I think the 2014 VCC is a better wine than the 1998, based on most recent experience.
Wow, thanks for that, I’ll check into 96. I had the 82 in October and it edged the Mouton and the La Mish to me that night.

Damnit. Those two bottles of 82 were ones that I was considering selling as the going rate seemed to be a nice return/worth more on the market than they are to me. Guess the only Bordeaux I can sell are the spoofy parkerized ones now.

Always planned to keep an try my one bottle of the 96 though.

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:38 am**

DavidG wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:31 pm
JoelD wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:13 pm That 2014 La Conseillante sure is tempting. May have to swing it. If any local DC area BWE'ers want to split a case, let me know.
I'm in. Just don’t tell anyone I bailed on the freeze.

Hey!

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:46 am**

I have one bottle of 2014 La Conseillante in my cellar.
As much as I would like to have 12, I am going to... just... say... NO.
It has been a good year of moderation in wine purchases, I'm not going to bust my budget in the last month.

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:54 am**

JimHow wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:46 am I have one bottle of 2014 La Conseillante in my cellar.
As much as I would like to have 12, I am going to... just... say... NO.
It has been a good year of moderation in wine purchases, I'm not going to bust my budget in the last month.

I can't speak for David but i'd be happy to split some of my bottles with you, oh wise and self controlled BD.

Since you enable everyone else. I vote for a BD exception for the BD to get more 2014 La Conseillante

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:56 am**

You are a wise young man, JoelD. Put me in for whatever percentage of the stash you deem worthy... four bottles each? Three? However you want to break it up, I defer to you, in my kindness and benevolence.

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:48 am**

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:33 pm
DavidG wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:31 pm
JoelD wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:13 pm That 2014 La Conseillante sure is tempting. May have to swing it. If any local DC area BWE'ers want to split a case, let me know.
I'm in. Just don’t tell anyone I bailed on the freeze.
Didn’t you just get a case of BAMA because some other yak palate motivated you?!?

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:49 am**

Blanquito wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:38 am
DavidG wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:31 pm
JoelD wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:13 pm That 2014 La Conseillante sure is tempting. May have to swing it. If any local DC area BWE'ers want to split a case, let me know.
I'm in. Just don’t tell anyone I bailed on the freeze.
Hey!

Posted: **Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:51 am**

JimHow wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:56 am You are a wise young man, JoelD. Put me in for whatever percentage of the stash you deem worthy... four bottles each? Three? However you want to break it up, I defer to you, in my kindness and benevolence.

A three-way split sounds fine to me. I’m already feeling 33% less guilty.

Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

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Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

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Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

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Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

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Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

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Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...

Re: Time to start thinking about the 2021 BWE Wine of the Year...