Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

A mixed half case of 2016 Produttori Riservas.
May I live long enough to enjoy them at maturity.

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:44 am 3 x 1985 Chateau Trotanoy

Have you had the 85 Trotanoy lately? I'm thinking about getting a magnum for a good price. Thoughts?

JoelD wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:17 pm

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 2:44 am 3 x 1985 Chateau Trotanoy

Have you had the 85 Trotanoy lately? I'm thinking about getting a magnum for a good price. Thoughts?

I have not, but it is one of my favorite Chateau. I saw that John Gilman, in his retrospective a few years ago, gave this wine glowing comments. If the price was correct, I would grab a magnum as well.

It finished slightly below the middle of the pack in a California versus Bordeaux 1985 retrospective. But then it is the bottle not the wine, and a magnum is likely to be good.

6 2008 Nicolas Feuillatte Brut @ $50
5 2014 Francois Carillon Chassagne-Montrachet 1er Cru "Clos St. Jean" $409.50

Still buying more than we are drinking, but the buying is for Oregon (where we need more wine) and our drinking is in Texas (where we need less wine).

Not much to talk about but my 1st Bordeaux purchase in months.

2-2016 Ch Malescot St. Exupery on NH closeout for $53/btl. I already had enough but at that price I can't pass it up.

12 X 2015 Casanova di Neri Brunello di Montalcino - less than the 2016, and will drink sooner.
12 X 2018 Felsina Chianti Classico Rancia - either for my old age, or my nieces and nephews.

DavidG wrote: ↑Sun Oct 10, 2021 5:29 pm A mixed half case of 2016 Produttori Riservas.
May I live long enough to enjoy them at maturity.

Since i had that excellent 2017 Principiano Fernandino Barolo, i'm like focusing on Piemont wines lately.

So bought 3 bottles of the 2013 Damilano Lecinquevigne Barolo.

By curiosity, i also bought a single bottle of the 2020 Hurluberlu, a naturaly made wine of Cabernet Franc from Loire.

Gerry M. wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:30 pm Not much to talk about but my 1st Bordeaux purchase in months.

2-2016 Ch Malescot St. Exupery on NH closeout for $53/btl. I already had enough but at that price I can't pass it up.

I have some too, and your price seems very good. Since I opened a 2016 Chateau Saint-Pierre that was excellently glorious, i have a tough time keeping off my other 2016...

Les Forts Latour 2010 - 4x6 - this is a punt because it costs a sixth of the Latour GV - Carruades by contrast costs a third of the Lafite GV - so if all goes well I might eventually be able to sell three and drink one six pack for free

Leoville Barton 2017 - one case of 12 which I intend to drink one day.

Comte Flaneur wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:08 pm Les Forts Latour 2010 - 4x6 - this is a punt because it costs a sixth of the Latour GV - Carruades by contrast costs a third of the Lafite GV - so if all goes well I might eventually be able to sell three and drink one six pack for free

Leoville Barton 2017 - one case of 12 which I intend to drink one day.

Interesting. I am planning a tasting next year of 3 vintages of Latour, Forts de Latour and 3 Grand Vins priced the same or less than Les Forts.

They will be twenty years apart, and starting with the 1970, 1990 and then finish with the 2010. All single blind.

For instance the 1970 will be Latour, Forts, Pichon Lalande, Montrose and Lynch Bages. Etc.

I really look forward to reading how that pans out Mark. We know that if 2009 Latour is a 100 point wine, then the 2010 is a 103 point wine, but because the ceiling is 100 points the 97 point Les Forts strikes me as a bargain. But I would imagine the Pichons and Lynch would have a lot to say in this contest.

The 2010 Chateau Latour can't be a 100 pts wine, as it has 14.4 % alcohol... surely too high for some here to be a true great classic and fine Latour?

In my experience the 2010s are big strapping muscular wines which hold their alcohol well, like the 6 foot 4 inch 200 pound athlete.

“One of the perfect wines of the vintage, Frederic Engerer challenged me when I tasted the 2010 Latour at the estate, asking, “If you rate the 2009 one hundred, then how can this not be higher?” Well, the scoring system stops at 100, (and has for 34 years,) and will continue for as long as I continue to write about wine...The 2010 is a liquid skyscraper in the mouth, building layers upon layers of extravagant, if not over-the-top richness with its hints of subtle charcoal, truffle, blackberry, cassis, espresso and notes of toast and graphite. Full-bodied, with wonderfully sweet tannin, it is a mind-boggling, prodigious achievement that should hit its prime in about 15 years, and last for 50 to 100.' RP 100 Points

“'The 2010 Latour can be summed up in two words: “The king.” It convincingly asserts its superiority over other 2010s, including First Growths, in terms of its aromatic complexity, precision, balance, intensity, complexity and persistence. Simply a faultless Latour that ranks among its greatest achievements. Tasted from an ex-château bottle at the BI Wines & Spirits 10-Year On tasting.' NM Vinous 100 Points

“'The 2010 Latour is deep garnet in color, and—WOW—it erupts from the glass with powerful crème de cassis, Black Forest cake and blackberry pie scents plus intense sparks of dried roses, cigar boxes, fragrant earth and smoked meats with aniseed and crushed rocks wafts. Full-bodied, concentrated and oh-so-decadent in the mouth, it has a firm, grainy texture and lovely freshness carrying the rich, opulent fruit to an epically long finish. It is incredibly tempting to drink now, but I suspect this hedonic experience isn't a scratch on the mind-blowing, otherworldly secrets this time capsule will have to reveal given another 7-10 years in bottle and continuing over the following fifty years' LPB 100 Points

It must be an LPB idiosyncrasy, that Black Forest cake and blackberry pie, because I think I’ve seen it in other reviews of hers. It doesn’t sound like anything I’d want to find in my Latour. I seriously doubt that the 2010 actually smells like that - but would gladly stick my nose in a glass of it looking for those aromas. I wonder what Black Forest cake and blackberry pie would translate into for me if I had a secret decoder ring in my nose.

DavidG wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:17 am I wonder what Black Forest cake and blackberry pie would translate into for me if I had a secret decoder ring in my nose.

Dessert.

3 x Ch Poujeaux 2009. Bit surprised to land these at auction, as I bid online but it stated "reserve not met" and 'unsold' at the close. Was today sent an invoice for them. Bit odd, but happy to have picked them up as I was fond of the 05s.

DavidG wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:17 am It must be an LPB idiosyncrasy, that Black Forest cake and blackberry pie, because I think I’ve seen it in other reviews of hers. It doesn’t sound like anything I’d want to find in my Latour. I seriously doubt that the 2010 actually smells like that - but would gladly stick my nose in a glass of it looking for those aromas. I wonder what Black Forest cake and blackberry pie would translate into for me if I had a secret decoder ring in my nose.

I can’t even read her reviews, they are silly. She uses Black Forest cake like 25% of the time. As if that’s a positive in Bordeaux. William Kelley should be doing Bordeaux for TWA.

I agree that Black Forest Cake is not very positive in a white or red Bordeaux wine review. For me. But for other it can be.

Last night, a 2009 Domaine de Pegau was all about horse and brett, on the nose and mouth. Weird, nothing good to me. But 2 tasters had it as their 3rd favorite CNDP!

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:04 pm

DavidG wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:17 am It must be an LPB idiosyncrasy, that Black Forest cake and blackberry pie, because I think I’ve seen it in other reviews of hers. It doesn’t sound like anything I’d want to find in my Latour. I seriously doubt that the 2010 actually smells like that - but would gladly stick my nose in a glass of it looking for those aromas. I wonder what Black Forest cake and blackberry pie would translate into for me if I had a secret decoder ring in my nose.

I can’t even read her reviews, they are silly. She uses Black Forest cake like 25% of the time. As if that’s a positive in Bordeaux. William Kelley should be doing Bordeaux for TWA.

I'm not a WA subscriber either, but I've seen her reviews quoted on various retailer sites. I think it means rich sweet fruit, maybe chocolatey notes? It's not a positive descriptor to me, but I question whether the wines really present that way or if it's just some construct she's made up. I suppose if I've got any wines in the cellar that she's hung that on I could see for myself what she means.

DavidG wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:38 am

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:04 pm

DavidG wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:17 am It must be an LPB idiosyncrasy, that Black Forest cake and blackberry pie, because I think I’ve seen it in other reviews of hers. It doesn’t sound like anything I’d want to find in my Latour. I seriously doubt that the 2010 actually smells like that - but would gladly stick my nose in a glass of it looking for those aromas. I wonder what Black Forest cake and blackberry pie would translate into for me if I had a secret decoder ring in my nose.

I can’t even read her reviews, they are silly. She uses Black Forest cake like 25% of the time. As if that’s a positive in Bordeaux. William Kelley should be doing Bordeaux for TWA.

I'm not a WA subscriber either, but I've seen her reviews quoted on various retailer sites. I think it means rich sweet fruit, maybe chocolatey notes? It's not a positive descriptor to me, but I question whether the wines really present that way or if it's just some construct she's made up. I suppose if I've got any wines in the cellar that she's hung that on I could see for myself what she means.

An exemplar, sounds pretty disgusting to me:

Château Beau-Sejour-Becot St. Émilion 2018 Bottle $78.99, Case $947.88
“Sixty-five percent of the wine will be matured in new barriques, while 35% will be aged in vats, amphorae and large
oak casks of 20-hectoliter capacity. Deep garnet-purple colored, it leaps from the glass with bold, expressive notions of stewed plums, blackberry pie and Black Forest cake with nuances of menthol, mocha, molten licorice and wild sage plus a waft of lavender. Full-bodied, the palate is laden with latent energy, offering slow-releasing glimpses at dark, seductive berry preserves layers and vibrant earthy accents, framed by firm, grainy tannins and seamless freshness, finishing long and mineral laced.” (93-95 pts. Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Wine Advocate)

Holy leaping stewed plums, Batman!!!

POW!!!

Sounds like a laxative, actually.

DavidG wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:14 pm Holy leaping stewed plums, Batman!!!

POW!!!

Sounds like a laxative, actually.

Suckles would have given this a 98!

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:32 am

DavidG wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:38 am

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:04 pm

I can’t even read her reviews, they are silly. She uses Black Forest cake like 25% of the time. As if that’s a positive in Bordeaux. William Kelley should be doing Bordeaux for TWA.

I'm not a WA subscriber either, but I've seen her reviews quoted on various retailer sites. I think it means rich sweet fruit, maybe chocolatey notes? It's not a positive descriptor to me, but I question whether the wines really present that way or if it's just some construct she's made up. I suppose if I've got any wines in the cellar that she's hung that on I could see for myself what she means.

An exemplar, sounds pretty disgusting to me:

Château Beau-Sejour-Becot St. Émilion 2018 Bottle $78.99, Case $947.88
“Sixty-five percent of the wine will be matured in new barriques, while 35% will be aged in vats, amphorae and large
oak casks of 20-hectoliter capacity. Deep garnet-purple colored, it leaps from the glass with bold, expressive notions of stewed plums, blackberry pie and Black Forest cake with nuances of menthol, mocha, molten licorice and wild sage plus a waft of lavender. Full-bodied, the palate is laden with latent energy, offering slow-releasing glimpses at dark, seductive berry preserves layers and vibrant earthy accents, framed by firm, grainy tannins and seamless freshness, finishing long and mineral laced.” (93-95 pts. Lisa Perrotti-Brown, Wine Advocate)

Oh no, I have some bottles coming... where are the merlot berries, cab franc herbal rasberries and calcaire minerals?

Well, i'll just have it desset wine.

Musigny 151 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:08 pm

Comte Flaneur wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:08 pm Les Forts Latour 2010 - 4x6 - this is a punt because it costs a sixth of the Latour GV - Carruades by contrast costs a third of the Lafite GV - so if all goes well I might eventually be able to sell three and drink one six pack for free

Leoville Barton 2017 - one case of 12 which I intend to drink one day.

Interesting. I am planning a tasting next year of 3 vintages of Latour, Forts de Latour and 3 Grand Vins priced the same or less than Les Forts.

They will be twenty years apart, and starting with the 1970, 1990 and then finish with the 2010. All single blind.

For instance the 1970 will be Latour, Forts, Pichon Lalande, Montrose and Lynch Bages. Etc.

MichaelP poured us some 1990 Les Forts a while back....it was so good it just makes me gasp. It had very tough competition that night too....

Picked up a case of the 2009 LdH Bosconia Reserva (12), a case of Savart l’Ouverture (12), a case of mags of the 2019 Baudry Les Grezeaux (6) and 5 cases of the recently released 2016 Olga Raffault Les Picasses (60).

6 half bottles of Voirin Jumel Champagne BdB
6 half bottles of 2014 Louis Michel Chablis Vaudesir GC

3 half bottle of 2019 Cristom Mount Jefferson

JeanFred is responsible for that as he opened one last Saturday and I thought it was in the same league (even if sligthly different in profile) as St Innocent. Fruit very luminous and nice character to that Cristom.

jckba wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:51 am Picked up............. 5 cases of the recently released 2016 Olga Raffault Les Picasses (60).

?!

is that something that is flippable? or do you just drink a ton of Chinon/Bourgeils etc.

I do drink a lot of Loire Valley wines and think that the value proposition in Chinons like Olga Raffault Les Picasses or Baudry Les Grezeaux is unmatched as they pair perfectly with a wide variety of weekday meals without breaking the bank and they will last for years to come. I also have plenty of room in the cellar so storage fees do not apply.

Now it is my sincere belief that since global warming has been kind to this under-ripening variety; the thin, weedy examples are pretty much a thing of the past and if and when their popularity grows, I anticipate that the back vintages will eventually begin to appreciate thus giving me a better ROI as well as more options should I subsequently choose to trade, consign and/or sell provided that I don’t drink them all.

So Arv, when’s the next time you will be in NYC?

Just snagged five bottles of 1999 Togni, no condition flaws noted, for $108 each all in at auction. Not sure why 1999 tends to go for so much less than other Togni vintages from the 90s, but it’s not because it’s a bad wine

Been doing some non-Bordeaux purchases recently:

12 x 2018 Felsina Chianti Classico Rancia
12 x 2015 Casanova di Neri Brunello di Montalcino
12 x 2019 Domaine du Cayron Gigondas
12 x 2019 St. Cosme Cotes du Rhone Les Deux Albion
12 x 2018 Roco Pinot Noir Willamette Valley

AKR wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:29 pm

jckba wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:51 am Picked up............. 5 cases of the recently released 2016 Olga Raffault Les Picasses (60).

?!

is that something that is flippable? or do you just drink a ton of Chinon/Bourgeils etc.

That’s just how ballers roll…

3 bottles each of Huet Sec Le Mont and Clos du Bourg '19

4 bottles of 2016 Il Palazone Brunello di Montalcino at a great price of $48/btl. The 2016 BdM's are slowly starting appear in NH and anticipate picking up at least a case or two of mixed examples

Time to reload on some Olga Raffault Picasses. I see 2014, 2015, and 2016 available. Other than the obvious "all of the above," any comments on characteristics of these specific wines?

DavidG wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 2:48 pm Time to reload on some Olga Raffault Picasses. I see 2014, 2015, and 2016 available. Other than the obvious "all of the above," any comments on characteristics of these specific wines?

My strong order of preference would be 2014, 2014, 2014. The 2014 is more classically styled and when I had it side by side with the solar 2015 a month or so back on a Sunday funday, it showed less ripe, purer and longer. Yet to try the 2016 but maybe I’ll pit all 3 up against each other within the next week and get back to you.

Here was my note on the 2014 from May and it is at this stage that I decided, if I see it lingering on the shelf somewhere for a good price to just buy it as I will never regret it.

Absolutely pure, unadulterated Cabernet Franc aromas of black currant, tobacco leaf and wet earth that lead to a medium bodied, beautifully proportioned, juicy red fruited and bell pepper flavors that turn slightly drying on the finish. 93+

Where is the 2014 available?
I drank through six bottles of it and really liked it.

JimHow wrote: ↑Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:28 pm Where is the 2014 available?
I drank through six bottles of it and really liked it.

The 2015 and 2016 is what is currently available via wholesale here in the metro NYC area. You can find the 2014 here and there and Posner @ Grapes has 25 bottles left @ $32.99/per but which comes down to $28/per after the 15% case discount. I can pick up and hold for you should this prove to be the best price you can find at this stage.

Funny you guys just initiated this conversation, Bobby Goulet and I just grabbed a case of the 2014 from Gary’s, and I found a six pack of the 2010 today from a private source.

I agree with the post above, 2014 is probably my favorite vantage of this wine in recent years, and honestly probably my favorite vintage since 2005. It is without a doubt a case purchase.