Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

JimHow wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:12 am I mean, we HAVE tasted a nice Lascombes here and there, no?
To me, as much as I'm down on Lynch Bages, the most overrated wine in Bordeaux is Grand Puy Lacoste.
I'll never forget that afternoon Nicola and I were in MacArthur's, and Phil Bernstein, without any leading whatsoever, said that GPL had been "underperforming its terroir" for decades.

AlexR wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:52 pm I'm much more bullish on Grand Puy Lacoste than some of you.

Jim, you are in danger of being served the wine blind by one of us and finding it to your liking! .

For my money, it should be bumped up not one, but two categories.

I see that the wine is quite well noted on Cellartracker, but then there is, of course, no need to follow the herd.
https://www.cellartracker.com/producer.asp?iProducer=97

Alex R.

AlexR wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:52 pm
For my money, it should be bumped up not one, but two categories.

Claudius2 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:20 pm Jim
GPL is a fifth growth in the 1855 classification and the wine at the moment would reasonably be classified in recent form as a 4th or 5th.

I wasn’t exactly impressed with either the 1996 or 2000 and after 2000, it was deleted from my own personal radar as the price is, irrespective of its 1855 classification, above its quality. Yet I do recall some good vintages of GPL in the 80’s. I’d say the 1990 was the best though I liked most of the vintages in the 80’s.

In regard to Lascombes, it is a second growth in formal terms and I have never tried a vintage of it that is near that level. I was hard on the 2004 largely as it was talked up numerous critics yet it was pretty ordinary and unbalanced to me. The price of Lascombes has also increased over the years relative to other Margaux wines. Ferriere does not get much love here but I’d say it is better than Lascombes based on recent form. And whilst uneven, at least I find Ferriere to be idiosyncratic.

As for Rausan Gassies, I have tried several vintages from the 70’s onward and tried a handful of vintages at the Chateau several years ago. The people were very friendly but the wines I tried were not classed growth level. I note Izak reports improvements recently and I’d like to try it again.

Another option is Camensac yet the 2009 and 2010 were pretty good though won’t blow anyone away.
La Tour Carnet is another choice but isn’t really rated anyway. This wine, Camensac and Rausan G are not rated by the market in any case based on EP prices.

Which you prick depends on your frame of reference, if based on the 1855 classification then RG and Lascombes are my picks. If price is the yardstick then I’d still pick Lascombes but delete RG and add GPL.

But based on both Lascombes is the winner (if you can use that term in this context) with runner up trophies to RG and GPL.

As for the right bank, I can’t decide. Bit surprised Angelus is mentioned as my experience with it has been fine.

Cheers
Mark

robert goulet wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:43 am

Claudius2 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:20 pm Jim
GPL is a fifth growth in the 1855 classification and the wine at the moment would reasonably be classified in recent form as a 4th or 5th.

I wasn’t exactly impressed with either the 1996 or 2000 and after 2000, it was deleted from my own personal radar as the price is, irrespective of its 1855 classification, above its quality. Yet I do recall some good vintages of GPL in the 80’s. I’d say the 1990 was the best though I liked most of the vintages in the 80’s.

In regard to Lascombes, it is a second growth in formal terms and I have never tried a vintage of it that is near that level. I was hard on the 2004 largely as it was talked up numerous critics yet it was pretty ordinary and unbalanced to me. The price of Lascombes has also increased over the years relative to other Margaux wines. Ferriere does not get much love here but I’d say it is better than Lascombes based on recent form. And whilst uneven, at least I find Ferriere to be idiosyncratic.

As for Rausan Gassies, I have tried several vintages from the 70’s onward and tried a handful of vintages at the Chateau several years ago. The people were very friendly but the wines I tried were not classed growth level. I note Izak reports improvements recently and I’d like to try it again.

Another option is Camensac yet the 2009 and 2010 were pretty good though won’t blow anyone away.
La Tour Carnet is another choice but isn’t really rated anyway. This wine, Camensac and Rausan G are not rated by the market in any case based on EP prices.

Which you prick depends on your frame of reference, if based on the 1855 classification then RG and Lascombes are my picks. If price is the yardstick then I’d still pick Lascombes but delete RG and add GPL.

But based on both Lascombes is the winner (if you can use that term in this context) with runner up trophies to RG and GPL.

As for the right bank, I can’t decide. Bit surprised Angelus is mentioned as my experience with it has been fine.

Cheers
Mark

BobbyOrl and I had the 2000 R.Gassies last summer...was a lovely wine, but I have little exposure to this estate

Right bank....Pavie, all day

greatbxfreak wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:30 am
Btw, Pavie Decesse has now been included in Pavie and Perse's Bellevue Mondotte is still GC.

JimHow wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:15 pm I've never understood the angst about the "new" Pavie.
I think it is a brilliant wine and, despite predictions to the contrary, the 1998s and 2000s have continued to perform brilliantly with age on them.

Musigny 151 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:59 pm

JimHow wrote: ↑Sun Sep 25, 2022 4:15 pm I've never understood the angst about the "new" Pavie.
I think it is a brilliant wine and, despite predictions to the contrary, the 1998s and 2000s have continued to perform brilliantly with age on them.

The 1998 was not made with Michel Rolland. It is not a bad wine.
As Jim, you would probably have guessed, I dislike everything made subsequently. I stopped tasting them with the 2014 vintage, and I hear they have dialed back.

Suffice to say that it has been a waste of a great terroir.