Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

Is Pop's still out of the futures game?

Like others, I get some satisfaction out of knowing I paid a fair value for purchases. It is ever more apparent that --- for whatever reasons --- many of the 2010 Bordeaux don't offer good value compared to many products coming out of Washington State, and compared to relatively recent Bordeaux vintages.

I'll join the boycott....and have not purchased a single 2010 Bordeaux.

Well done, Jon, we are pleased to have you in The Revolution.

Malescot out... Today's releases are about the same if not a touch more than 09!
Still 09 was TOO expensive.

I have been spreading the boycott word on my twitter account.

I've just seen 2010 prices from Danish merchant - La Fleur Petrus is 190 Euros and Trotanoy is 158 Euros. I think I won't comment this price difference in more than one word - ABSURD.

The prices to begin with are absurd... I bought halves of 79 Trotanoy at auction for roughly £25 all in! Fabulous wine and great drinking with only one duff half (sorry Ian).

Now why would I pay £140 a bottle before tax??

Has anyone thought to post information of our boycott on other sites, like Wine Beserkers, etc.? Just wondering if it's worth it?

You guys are thinking. I like that.
I think I'm going to circulate a press release to a bunch of newspapers and other media...

If the national press will go gavel to gavel on the great Whoopie Pie War, they'll eat (drink?) this up. French Wine Snobs Boycott Bordeaux. The only thing to watch out for is it has echoes of Freedom Fries (or whatever they were called) and people pouring French wine down the drain after the Iraq UN resolution thingy.

Good point. It will indeed require a balancing act.

20100 Freshly offered in Québec:

Pontet-Canet for a low 225 $
Lafleur-Petrus, a bargain at 310 $

Nic

JonoB wrote:Malescot out... Today's releases are about the same if not a touch more than 09!
Still 09 was TOO expensive.[/url]

Was just offered '10 Malescot for $109USD... 09 was pricier than I had hoped but I bought some @ 85/btl.

I notice there's a thread over on Wine berserkers about the pricing of 2010 Bordeaux, and lots promising to pass on the vintage. However, no one is suggesting a boycott, and no one refers to the boycott here on BWE. I'd post but I'm not a member. If you want to see what they're saying over there, it's here: http://www.wineberserkers.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46482

I'm going to work on a press release this weekend, I'll run it by the BWE membership for comment before release to the media.

Color me boycott.

I'm 40. At current consumption rates, I'm covered for wine into my 60's (depending how often my brother visits)...

Well done, Patrick. Very well done indeed.
I'm feeling it. A movement is afoot.

Jim
I'm also reaching an age (I'm slightly older than you) where buying wines like Latour or lafite is nuts even if I could afford them.

If there is a really awful trend in the industry it is the treatment of wine as status symbols and investment property rather than wine.
After all it is still something you pour in a glass and drink.
The example of Pontet Canet is galling as this was a BWE winner a few years ago yet it has escalated in price.
Beychevelle, always to me a good rather than great wine, is in ddemand in Asia as they like the boat on the label.
And Lafite is the plaything of the new rich of Asia who would not know good wine from camel urine.

The retailers and importers now bombard you with points - Parker, Suckling, Jancis R, Decanter, whatever.
It's like people buying cars based on magazine ratings and performance indicators.
Better get used to it I suppose.

Thirty years ago, the first growths were about 80% more than a second growth and about 3-4 times the price of an average fifth growth.
So my beef is not just with the producers.
It is the trade and the buyers.
In a world filled with twitter, facebook and email, everything is now numbered and rated.
Yet to be honest, I don't like the wines any more than I did then.
In fact, far too many wines now are too heavy and have little finesse.

I know our host encourages hyperbole, but camel urine? Really? And how exactly would one base telling the difference between Bordeaux and camel urine absent having tasted both?

Camel urine, which sometimes is used in humous, has a very distinctive bouquet that is highly prized by some. Don't confuse it with horse piss, which is quite nasty.

I have not purchased any Bordeaux since the '06 vintage and I will fully support the '10 boycot and spread the word any where I can.

Well done oldwinenut, very well done indeed.

Tom and Stefan, hilarious! I can only identify cat piss in N.Z, Sauvignon Blanc. Now I have to look for camel urine in hummus

This morning I got an email from PC with offerings for 2010 Bordeaux. I took one glance and then hit the d key.

JimHow wrote:SauternesSteve: Regarding Sauternes/Barsac, I'm afraid we are going to have to consider each application for exemption on a case-by-case basis. Without question, there will be innocents who will be harmed in this revolution. We will attempt to minimize that harm through the Benevolent Dictator Exemption application process.

I agree with you, that region is less at fault. In the end, we will just have to have faith in my beneficence. I am a kind and reasonable dictator!

Benevolent Dictator - I have thought long and hard about who to put forward for exemption from Sauternes & Barsac and therefore, by default, who to condemn. Yes, a few Sauternais have been foolish and listened to the persuasive words of the Bordelais and need to see the error of their ways. But, at the end of the day, the bond between Sauternes and Barsac producers is too strong to be broken by a war on their borders. This foolishness will be dealt with 'in house'.

I therefore declare Sauternes & Barsac neutral in this conflict. The Sauternais are used to being ignored and neglected so I am sure it will not be difficult to refrain from any unprovoked verbal attack on their good and kindly nature for the duration of this crusade.

Blanquito wrote:Color me boycott.

I'm 40. At current consumption rates, I'm covered for wine into my 60's (depending how often my brother visits)...

I am one year less than Blanquito and also jmping on the boycott wagon.

Well done, Mike, very well done. You younger guys are the future generation of Bordeaux drinkers.

SautuernesSteve, your message is well thought out. I will take your message under advizement.

Sincerely, Your Benevolent Dictator.

Hey cheer up, everyone, Zachy's just released it's price for three 2010 "big guns":

Lynch Bages: $175
Montrose: $230
Pichon Baron: $230.


<rolls eyes>

The only intriguing higher-priced 2010 so far to me has been Grand Puy Lacoste at $90, which Neil Martin describes as virtually perfect (97-99 pts) and scores higher than Latour, Lafite, Haut Brion, Pontet Canet, Pichon Baron, Pichon Lalande, Lynch Bages, Ducru, Barton, Poyferre, LLC, Palmer, Cos, Montrose, Eglise Clinet, Lafleur, Petrus, VCC, Ausone and Cheval Blanc. Only Mouton and Margaux are scored the same or higher by NM. Michael Schuster, Michel Bettane and Thierry Desseauve similarly rave about GPL in WOFW, with Bettane & Desseauve calling it the best GPL in 50 years. I bought and love 05 GPL for the same price (albeit not on futures), and if this is potentially even better $90 isn't such a crazy number. Expensive, yes, but not totally unreasonable. I'm not trying to throw cold water on the 2010 boycott, which in general I wholeheartedly support, but this wine seems not unfairly priced to me relative not only to other bordeaux from the same vintage but also wines of similar quality throughout the world.

If you are seeking an Article 5.5 "catch-all" exemption for the GPL, pomilion, I am happy to give it consideration....

Well I am anti-GPL. Last year was bearable and they could have been clever and stuck at Thr same price. Over £600 and warning lights start to flash unless they were from a long time ago!

Jim -- yes, I think it would be merited for GPL...

Jon -- it's all relative and a question of personal taste and comfort level. I'm as dismayed and angry about the out-of-control price increases as anyone, but to me, looking at other comparable bordeaux from the past 5 vintages, as well as Cal cab blends from the same vintages, $90 seems arguably worth it to me for a world-class wine. It appears to be one of the best, possibly the best, 2010 bordeaux available for that price or less (again, depending on your taste and style preferences). I've had older GPL and I've also had (several times) 05 GPL and it's a style I enjoy. I wish it cost less but to me you have to compare it to what else you'd buy for $90...

You don't need a GPL exemption. You can have the 05 in your hot little hands overnight for less money. It's the same wine. Pretty much everybody says so.

I see JJ Buckley is letting you put 60% down on 2010 futures orders over $1000.

Now things are getting interesting. Is there some way to earn a hefty fee for selling this wine, offload the liability to deliver it for less, and pocket the difference? Because I don't want to have any skin in this game. I wanna be a banksta.

Houndsong -- I considered that, as they basically cost the same ($90). And you're right, some reviewers think the '10 is about the same quality-wise as 05, but from what I've seen at least half the commentators think the '10 is better. Also, I already have a bunch of the 05 and like a little variety! So even if they are the same quality-wise, it'd be nice to have another vintage in the cellar.

Apart from the issues you raise, I would guess JJ Buckley's 60% down structure will earn them a ton of business.

Sorry I missed or forgot your 05 ownership. Still, and I am perhaps in the minority on this viewpoint, if you want a little variety, that's what you'll be getting. Or at least that's what I'd be getting. But I get it. Which is why I keep buying this or that, even though it all tastes more similar than dissimilar to me.

Sorry for the sarcastic tone but this is the limit and the thread is about boycotting, and we already have a sub $30 exemption, a wedding/birthdate exemption, a perceived value exception. Talk about capturing the regulator.

By the way, somebody is making a name for himself by knowing all the dumb reasons a wine is gaining in popularity with the Chinese. Did you know GPL is known in China as the "crocodile wine?" it's too hard to pronounce, except for the Lacoste part. Of course I thought Lacoste's logo was an alligator. Duh!

A Message about 2010 Bordeaux Futures
from owners Ed and Michael Sands, Calvert Woodley

Lots of new wines out today -- big name chateaux -- but we passed on each of them. Since some of you have inquired we thought we'd take this opportunity to let you know our thought process. Wines released today (and in the past few days) include some that we've carried for many years, some that we even visited and enjoyed in April. Lynch Bages, Montrose, Pichon Baron, Pape Clement, Branaire Ducru, d'Issan, Smith Haut Lafitte, among others. These are great wines, truly outstanding, but we had hoped the release prices would be a little more in line with last year's prices and unfortunately that hasn't been the case. With the added difference in the euro against the dollar, we just felt they were a little too expensive and no longer represent the value they have in the past.

"Value" is certainly a relative term, because a $150 wine can be a good value and a $15 wine can be over-priced. Our decision to pass on these chateaux is in no way indicative of our feelings about the quality of these wines. Once again, these are outstanding...we have simply made the business decision to pass on them for now. That being said, if any of you would like to purchase some of these wines (or others not listed) we would be happy to get in touch with our negociants and try to obtain them for you.

The likelihood is that almost all of these wines will be on the store shelves for the same or less than they were en primeur....at least if the last 5 vintages are any indication.

Well done, Calvert Woodley. Very, very well done.
I implore more retailers to join the revolt.

This is like Tunisia, I sense a Bordeaux Spring in the offing, or maybe we should call it the Claret Clarion. All the BD has to do is publically douse himself in some overpriced 2010 Bordeaux, and the contagion will hit Burgundy... Barolo... even Napa... Carry it on!

JonB wrote:A Message about 2010 Bordeaux Futures
from owners Ed and Michael Sands, Calvert Woodley

Lots of new wines out today -- big name chateaux -- but we passed on each of them. Since some of you have inquired we thought we'd take this opportunity to let you know our thought process. Wines released today (and in the past few days) include some that we've carried for many years, some that we even visited and enjoyed in April. Lynch Bages, Montrose, Pichon Baron, Pape Clement, Branaire Ducru, d'Issan, Smith Haut Lafitte, among others. These are great wines, truly outstanding, but we had hoped the release prices would be a little more in line with last year's prices and unfortunately that hasn't been the case. With the added difference in the euro against the dollar, we just felt they were a little too expensive and no longer represent the value they have in the past.

"Value" is certainly a relative term, because a $150 wine can be a good value and a $15 wine can be over-priced. Our decision to pass on these chateaux is in no way indicative of our feelings about the quality of these wines. Once again, these are outstanding...we have simply made the business decision to pass on them for now. That being said, if any of you would like to purchase some of these wines (or others not listed) we would be happy to get in touch with our negociants and try to obtain them for you.

The likelihood is that almost all of these wines will be on the store shelves for the same or less than they were en primeur....at least if the last 5 vintages are any indication.

Sokolin had some similar thoughts last week:

http://www.sokolin.com/Blog.aspx?articl ... ectionid=4

In the past decade Bordeaux has seen significant globalization that by nature is more than ever subject to global forces such as: currencies, foreign stock markets, regulation, politics, economies of the world, etc. This year, Americans face a weak dollar buying Bordeaux priced in expensive Euros. It’s a tricky vintage in that “Points, Price and Pedigree”, our general criteria, are only part of the picture in assessing whether to buy Bordeaux futures.

As mentioned in my book “Investing In Liquid Assets” the only reason to buy futures is to secure a hard-to-get wine at the lowest price, but in this year it may not be the case. Here’s why:

1. The dollar may strengthen against the Euro making 2010 Bordeaux less expensive later, possibly even before they are delivered to the US market in 2013.

2. Back-to-back great vintages 2009 & 2010 may decrease the rabid demand for the great 2010 vintage, as we saw with 1989 & 1990 Bordeaux. Believe it or not, the 1990s weren’t gobbled up when they were released since most were bought-out on 1989s. It’s true!

3. Some Bordeaux Chateaux have priced their 2010’s at 30+% more than 2009 (50+% if you factor currency). Can the market absorb all of this, and will the wine still be available at the same price two years from now?

Houndsong wrote:Sorry for the sarcastic tone but this is the limit and the thread is about boycotting, and we already have a sub $30 exemption, a wedding/birthdate exemption, a perceived value exception. Talk about capturing the regulator.

By the way, somebody is making a name for himself by knowing all the dumb reasons a wine is gaining in popularity with the Chinese. Did you know GPL is known in China as the "crocodile wine?" it's too hard to pronounce, except for the Lacoste part. Of course I thought Lacoste's logo was an alligator. Duh!

Houndsong -- I totally understand the sentiment and am as upset as anyone about the out-of-control prices. I thought 05 was bad, 09 was crazy and 10 is twice as crazy. And with the exchange rate compounding everything here in the States... For the most part, I'm done with expensive bordeaux. Just wish I'd been collecting for longer and had a bigger stash of great bottles for bargain prices, since it's my favorite wine region... And yes I had heard about GPL and the Chinese, crazy what sells wine there sometimes! Beychevelle too (had a nice '86 recently), though I'm not as enamored of it as GPL.

With the latest overpriced releases of Pichon Baron, Montrose. Pichon Comtesse and Lynch Bages, I understand that this vintage is for me to avoid. Priced have never been so high and for young collectors who are not that rich, primeur capmaign 2010 is simply a disaster. I'm perfectly satisfied having 2001 and 2004 vintage of several wines, which in 2010 are 3-4 times more expensive.

In all, I think all the buzz/prices about 2010 vintage, is big tragedy for young generation, which may leave Bordeaux completely and turn to other wine-districts.