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Re: Red Bordeaux and food match : how irreductible are you?
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:53 am
by AKR
There is a real difference between King salmon and other species. I had unspecified last night, but had King two weeks ago. It is so much richer, fattier. I think the restaurant trade picks off most of it?
I realize the Geneva Convention of Sommeliers has a task force hunting down all the Red Wine with Fish Criminals, but I'm hoping they'll go after the bigger fish (heh!) before they get down to the minnows (heh heh!) like me.
Re: Red Bordeaux and food match : how irreductible are you?
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:13 am
by DavidG
Salmon is often a good match for Pinot Noir, Beaujolais. Depending on prep/sauce, which is critical, it and other fish, including white-fleshed fish, can match a wider variety of reds. Including Bordeaux and cab.
Re: Red Bordeaux and food match : how irreductible are you?
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:07 am
by tim
I rarely have red bordeaux with fish. The only exception is when the fish is prepared with tomatoes or something that might match with a red wine. Note, though, I detest the taste of Salmon so I have little reason to pair it with anything.
Tonight I had a nice Cod with a California Chardonnay. It was a good pairing.
Re: Red Bordeaux and food match : how irreductible are you?
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:11 am
by jal
Sorry, no. I have a lot of white wine, I need to drink those with fish, I can’t drink them with beef, lamb or poultry (well, I could, but those foods go better with red). I’m happy having seafood with white and white only.
The exception is when we are dining out and one of us wants salmon and the other one fowl or lamb, then we share a bottle of Pinot Noir and the pairing works more or less ok.
Re: Red Bordeaux and food match : how irreductible are you?
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:58 pm
by marcs
double post
Re: Red Bordeaux and food match : how irreductible are you?
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:58 pm
by marcs
Musigny 151 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:34 pm
With 90% of fish dishes a very definite no. It is like watching a couple divorce. Both may be fine people but they don’t belong together.
And then there are the ten per cent that do work. Smoked sable in a red wine sauce, the octopus and bone marrow at Marea. They are not perfect, but they work well enough.
To some extent, if there is fine wine on the table, the food gets simpler. If you are pouring a mature Lafite, matching it with spices or complex flavors mask what the wine is trying to show. Like listening to Beethoven’s ninth on a transistor radio.
This is my perspective 100%. Keep it simple, the wine is the complexity. This is especially true in America where we tend to put hot spices in all kinds of complex sauces. Spicy heat absolutely kills red wine.
One thing I like about wine is that I'm an OK but not a great cook, and great wine makes it easy to elevate a simple dish to great heights.
Re: Red Bordeaux and food match : how irreductible are you?
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:00 pm
by marcs
jal wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:11 am
Sorry, no. I have a lot of white wine, I need to drink those with fish, I can’t drink them with beef, lamb or poultry (well, I could, but those foods go better with red). I’m happy having seafood with white and white only.
The exception is when we are dining out and one of us wants salmon and the other one fowl or lamb, then we share a bottle of Pinot Noir and the pairing works more or less ok.
When I visited Chablis we drank great Chablis with everything, including steak, and it was very good. White wine is ultra-flexible.
Re: Red Bordeaux and food match : how irreductible are you?
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:40 pm
by jckba
While I too generally always prefer a white wine with fish and/or shellfish, the big game changer is the sauce which can allow for a red wine pairing. Just take a look at some of the Le Bernardin fish dishes which routinely feature a red Burg or red Bdx pairing.
Re: Red Bordeaux and food match : how irreductible are you?
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:02 pm
by AKR
tim wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:07 am
I rarely have red bordeaux with fish. The only exception is when the fish is prepared with tomatoes or something that might match with a red wine. Note, though,
I detest the taste of Salmon so I have little reason to pair it with anything.
Tonight I had a nice Cod with a California Chardonnay. It was a good pairing.
Wow how unusual! I could swear my family are salmon slurping bears reincarnated
Re: Red Bordeaux and food match : how irreductible are you?
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:21 am
by Nicklasss
Musigny 151 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:34 pm
With 90% of fish dishes a very definite no. It is like watching a couple divorce. Both may be fine people but they don’t belong together.
And then there are the ten per cent that do work. Smoked sable in a red wine sauce, the octopus and bone marrow at Marea. They are not perfect, but they work well enough.
To some extent, if there is fine wine on the table, the food gets simpler. If you are pouring a mature Lafite, matching it with spices or complex flavors mask what the wine is trying to show. Like listening to Beethoven’s ninth on a transistor radio.
+1. But maybe more 95% white in my case. Sometime a very light red wine with seafood pasta with marinara sauce, but that would be my exception. I don't challenge taste or preference of others, but i guess I buy some nice dry white wines for what reason, if it is not to enjoy with fish, seafood, shells? Lobster or fat fish with Bourgogne blanc (or Prenier Cru Chablis), lowfat fish, crab, shell with good freshness dry white (Riesling, Sancerre, crisp Chablis village or Muscadet).
Re: Red Bordeaux and food match : how irreductible are you?
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:22 am
by Winona Chief
Guilty again tonight - 1982 Grand Puy Lacoste with salmon. Probably not the best match, usually go with red Burgundy or Oregon Pinot Noir with salmon but there was half a bottle of the’82 GPL in the frig that needed drinking. The GPL actually showed pretty well, it was still fresh after 3 days using a Repour.
Chris Bublitz
Re: Red Bordeaux and food match : how irreductible are you?
Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:18 pm
by AKR
as my people say in the old country, "Life wouldn't be Grand without Grand Puy Lacoste"
Re: Red Bordeaux and food match : how irreductible are you?
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:53 am
by tim
AKR wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:02 pm
tim wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:07 am
I rarely have red bordeaux with fish. The only exception is when the fish is prepared with tomatoes or something that might match with a red wine. Note, though,
I detest the taste of Salmon so I have little reason to pair it with anything.
Tonight I had a nice Cod with a California Chardonnay. It was a good pairing.
Wow how unusual! I could swear my family are salmon slurping bears reincarnated
I've had salmon two times in my life where I have liked it. The first was in Sweden, where it was a blood red salmon barely cooked. The second was a smoked salmon from Canada that was prepared in such a way as to mask the salmon taste. Besides those two, I have always found the taste repulsive (and it grows more repulsive the more it is cooked). Same for salmon roe.
Makes it difficult at sushi restaurants.