Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

marcs wrote:I think it was pretty clearly marked as a combination of a bunch of different notes and thus a parody.

Just look at it as a more palate-coating, intense, and extracted version of regular Jeff Leve!

Frankly, you would have much better wine in your cellar if you paid more attention to the intense, and extracted version of regular Jeff Leve

marcs wrote: Just look at it as a more palate-coating, intense, and extracted version of regular Jeff Leve!

This bottle encapsulates everything I hate about modern Bordeaux, and Jeff likes.

Looking at our notes, we are not describing the same wine. We agree on the extraction and intensity but nothing else. Viva la difference.

BTW, there may be many ice creams, but only one butter pecan.

For old-school ice cream flavors at least, I’ve always been partial to maple walnut.

Guys
The type of tasting note that uses hyperbole and verbosity normally gives me a very cold feeling -which is pretty rare given the endlessly balmy weather over here.
Can I contrast such terms with the sort of words typically used to describe the ultra modern South Aust Shiraz like Greenock Creek, Shirvington et al.
These wines are typically described as having layer upon layer of flavour, intensity, complexity, massive fruit power, silky Or velvety tannins, concentrated, inky, dense and crap like “great core of bright fruit meshed with lashes of silky tannins and integrated oak”. Yes I read that on an actual winemakers note. Even worse I read that one Greenock Creek monster was “filled to the brim with Mississippi mud cake, Valhrona chocolate and tarry, Porty characters”. Clearly you need a spoon and fork to drink it.
Sorry if I sound cynical But I tend to read a bit between the lines and maybe as I age I also appreciate balance, poise and finesse more that being smashed in the face.

I actually bought a lot of 09 and 10 Bdx on EP and the few wines I have tried have varied from excellent to good, but it was not a vintage that showed well across the board. In any case the last vintage of Cos I bought EP was 2003 and along with various others, sent them to auction - except 2003 PC which I kept as an experiment.

Jeff Leve wrote:

marcs wrote:I think it was pretty clearly marked as a combination of a bunch of different notes and thus a parody.

Just look at it as a more palate-coating, intense, and extracted version of regular Jeff Leve!

Frankly, you would have much better wine in your cellar if you paid more attention to the intense, and extracted version of regular Jeff Leve

Hey man, you're not talking to Robert here or some other loser who only likes thin, insipid wines. My cellar has multiple bottles of 2015 Conseillante (99 JL), 2010 Conseillante (98 JL), 2016 Pichon Baron (99 JL), 2005 Pichon Baron (98 JL), and 2003 Cos d'Estournel (97 JL). We're talking THOUSANDS of Jeff Leve points ready and waiting to coat every nook and cranny of my palate with pure intensity, STAT!

Claudius2 wrote:Guys
I read that one Greenock Creek monster was “filled to the brim with Mississippi mud cake, Valhrona chocolate and tarry, Porty characters”.

Even reading this note gives me a shudder of revulsion.

If you search well marcs, you should buy some Trump winery wines from "the good era". J.L. Probably gave the wines ratings between 95-97, while M.R. was consulting.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/socie ... es-winery/


For my part, i probably have a nose and palate serious breakdown lately, preferring thiner and more insipid wines than OrlandoBobby, red Bourgogne.

So my favorite ice cream is water with harsh green wood and unripe cranberries.

Nic

Burgundy is possibly "thin" (I prefer light-bodied) but not insipid!

as you know I have become something of a Burgundy champion around here.

Nicklasss wrote:If you search well marcs, you should buy some Trump winery wines from "the good era". J.L. Probably gave the wines ratings between 95-97, while M.R. was consulting.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/socie ... es-winery/


For my part, i probably have a nose and palate serious breakdown lately, preferring thiner and more insipid wines than OrlandoBobby, red Bourgogne.

So my favorite ice cream is water with harsh green wood and unripe cranberries.

Nic

Yay! OrlandoBobby drinks Cru Beaujolais every week! Pairs so well with grilled salmon, chicken dishes, omelette, etc.

Jeff Leve wrote:

Blanquito wrote:

stefan wrote:I doubt that any regular reader of BWE thought that Marcus gave an accurate summary of your reviews.

Wait! That wasn’t an actual Leve tasting note?!?! Then what the hell am I supposed to do with this supposedly ‘intense’ case of 2009 Cos that I just ran out and bought???

Send it to me! I will find Magdelaine to send to you

Deal!

One thing I give you lots of credit for Jeff — in your notes, one usually gets a clear sense of this style of a wine whether or not you like it. Given how subjective wine appreciation is (and music, art, food, etc.), the style of a wine is at least as important as any qualitative measure of the wine (at least at the levels we all tend to drink on sites like these). A certain famous, now retired wine critic used to strenuously reject this notion on his wine board — that wine “quality” was really mostly a function of taste, not some objective measure of quality — to his lasting discredit IMHO.

Given this reality, I support wine critics who like modern style wines as long as their personal predilections are clear. The thing that irks for old-school palates like mine though is we’ve essentially had no champion for traditionally made wines amongst the ranks of the professional wine critics (there is Gilman, but he came too late and has too little market influence to turn the tide) and as a result the market place shifted seismically and the bordelais started making more and more modern styled wines. Oh, I am not saying the Parker and subsequent critics systematically trashed old-school wines; far more important was the fact that it was the modernist (swill) which got all of the hype and praise and mega-bucks, and the bordelais took note. And Parker made things worse for the consumer for a time by effectively lumping the well-made traditionalists that he still liked (e.g. L. Barton, Sociando) in with the big, ripe, glossy modern wines with no real effort to point the fundamental differences in style out to the consumer. We eventually figured this out on our own (especially that Rolland = Bad!), but not before many of us had bought a bunch of futures that we had no idea were not in actuality their “best ever” wines, but were in fact just totally different in style, extract, taste, alcohol, oak substance. I for one was burned by this with a number of 2005 Bordeaux, for which I had mostly relied on Parker’s notes to guide my futures purchases.

It would be great if there were chateau out there for all palate preferences, but all of the old-school stalwarts of the St Emilion are making modernist goop or no longer even exist. Caveat: I don’t buy nor try Cheval Blanc and Ausone, but I’ve tried all the rest at the UGCs and what’s happened at Figeac, Belair-Monange, Canon, Angelus, l’Arrosee, Dominique, Grand Mayne, etc. is a viniferous crime against humanity as far as I am concerned. Even in the Medoc and Graves there are fewer and fewer traditionalists left.

Thank the heavens for Loire and Beaujolais!

Blanquito wrote: One thing I give you lots of credit for Jeff — in your notes, one usually gets a clear sense of this style of a wine whether or not you like it. Given how subjective wine appreciation is (and music, art, food, etc.), the style of a wine is at least as important as any qualitative measure of the wine

Thank you Patrick. That is all I strive for. The score is my view. The experience is, or should be universal. A good note should convey what to expect should you taste the same wine.

I’ve tried all the rest at the UGCs and what’s happened at Figeac, Belair-Monange, Canon, Angelus, l’Arrosee, Dominique, Grand Mayne, etc. is a viniferous crime against humanity as far as I am concerned.

How many of these wines have you tasted recently, from current vintages? My guess is, you will not like the wines getting my highest marks. But you should give them a try. IMO, everyone of those chateau makes better wine today then they have at any point in their history.

Those souped up St Ems have their place. Plenty of people love them. I lament their loss of classic character but really enjoy a glass now and then when in the mood for a cocktail wine. Whatever you think of Rolland, hiring him is hardly a crime. It’s not like they added ethylene glycol to the wines. It may taste like that but it won’t kill you.

You know what I've enjoyed from the right bank are those souped up merlots from Joanin Becot, they go for $20-something and are delicious high alcohol lascivious sex goddesses.

David G
Just to change the topic I visited numerous Austrian producers in 1985 during the glycol scandal and had you tried some of these wines I think you would happily just drink the glycol instead. Many of the wines from the 84 vintage were as nice to drink as battery acid. I wasn’t game enough to drink Austrian wine for many years after.

>>
Many of the wines from the 84 vintage were as nice to drink as battery acid.
>>

ROTFL

JimHow wrote:You know what I've enjoyed from the right bank are those souped up merlots from Joanin Becot, they go for $20-something and are delicious high alcohol lascivious sex goddesses.

Yes. I just had an 05 of this and to my surprise it was quite good (not OTT for me) and ready to go.

Thanks for that perspective Mark. I never had any sense of how bad those Austrian wines were.

Blanquito - go looking for the Clives Coates kinds of right banks if you are looking for a slimmer profile merlot. He's always been high on Larmande and perhaps that might be of interest to you. There's a bunch beyond that name. I think the wines must be harder to sell so they don't get consistent importing, and don't do as well in panel tastings.

Just what I do NOT need: BWE driving up the price of Larmande.

Stefan
Actually Larmande isn't one of my favourites.
I know I will probably be pilloried for saying that, but I find it just a bit TOO lean and minerally.
I have tried the 2010 a few times and have the rest of the case in storage, but I'd love to see a little more fruit.
I also don;t accept the narrative that it needs long cellaring as I have deliberately kept a few older vintages (eg, 1995) in the hope that they would show tertiary characters.
Well, it just lost whatever fruit was present in it when younger.

Jim
had a laugh over your comment. It made me think of the Larmande as something of a wine with anorexia nervosa.
If you are really after a "lascivious sex goddess" you should try coming to SE Asia some time. Times are tough due to the goddamn virus, but not all of them have gone back home to Korat, Saigon, Phnom Penh or the Philippines.....
But just remember - "no money, no honey". Don't bother changing your currency as greenbacks are very welcome (in fact, nobody wants Cambodian Riels or Vietnamese Dong anyway).

Don't forget there is another Cos, probably less "ostentatoire" than the Estournel in the 2009 vintage, more classical, and still 3rd growth.

Nic

Claudius2,

Larmande did substantially improve after its cellarmaster, Veronique Corporandy, also became winemaker in 2012. She also makes wines at sister property, Soutard.