When President Obama is re-elected!!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:21 pm

We are never going to see any progress on gun control in our lifetimes, are we.
Do you think Obama will let loose with a far left agenda if he is reelected?
Take on the gun lobby, the banks, the Joe Arpaios, etc?

JScott · Post by **JScott** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:01 pm

Interesting proposition, Jim. I think it will depend on how things are structured post-election. Virtual certainty the GOP holds the House. With events of this past week or two, looking more likely the Dems will hang onto the Senate, though that's still a tough call. (McCaskill went from dead in the water to a sure winner.) Regardless, he won't get his way with Congress. He will also not likely have a "mandate" in the sense that it will likely be very close and divisive. Frankly, I think he has a few simmering problems that could mar a second term. The DOJ issues - Fast and Furious, etc. - will be on the front burner early next year. Regardless of how that works out, it will be a major distraction at the least. Holder could be packing. I think Hillary will send in her pink slip shortly after the election, too. She's too smart to get herself tarred with the mess. She doesn't need it and she will be formidable in '16. We've been so focused on the election I didn't really start to consider some of this until your question, but, although I still think this is Obama's election to lose, hardcore progressives will likely be overall disappointed with what comes out of eight years of Obama. He will take a pass at gun control but lose. Same with Cap and Trade or anything similar. He will be forced to ease off the banks and Wall Street, too, at ;east for a year or two, because the economy is just too tenuous.

BTW, SwiftBoat II starts in less than 48 hrs.....

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:11 am

Jim
It is interesting in the USA from an Australian point of view.
You talk of a "far left" persepective being curbing gun laws.
Well that is NOT "far left" in virtually every other country.
In Australia, there was mass killing in Hobart a decade or so ago and the relatively right wing govt under John Howard considerably toughened up gun laws which were implemented with a buy back system and were strictly enforced.
Few can legally own guns of any sort - you need a reason to have one rather than the govt neweds a reason to NOT let you have one.
And gun related injuries, deaths and felonies have fallen.
And you will get a prison sentence for gun ownership that is not licensed.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:23 am

Ah, Claudius, but you never had John Wayne. Billy the Kid. O.K. Corral. Bonnie and Clyde. Doc Holliday. Al Capone. Marlon Brando. The Earp brothers. The Revolution. The Civil War. Our country was conceived in violence. It is essential to what we are. Sadly. We are so great, and yet so small, simultaneously. We are the big penis. America is a fascinating psychological study.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:37 am

Chris Christie has just stepped onto the stage, Billy Joel like. Oh this should be good...

Must say, though, a slow start...

New Jersey... Blah blah blah... Siscilian mother.. Zzzzzzz. Now he's talking bout his dad. Snoring.....

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:39 am

Oh god now he's saying he's his mothers son...

So far, an enormous disappointment...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:40 am

You'd think that the keynote speaker at the convention... even despite being the governor of NJ... could get a suit that fits.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:41 am

"Tonight, I say enough...."

Uh oh, here it comes...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:42 am

He's got some sort if herpes sore on the side of his mouth... It must be nerves....

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:44 am

About 8 minutes into his speech. He hasn't mentioned the Big O yet. I thought this was gonna be the big Obama bashing.

Good grief, he's talking about how he cut taxes in NJ.

It's not about YOU, big man!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:45 am

Now he's bashing teachers...

Still not a mention if the Big O! He's talking about ME, ME, ME!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:46 am

Twelve minutes in, still not a single reference to the prez.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:47 am

Cuomo in '84 this is not!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:51 am

Amazing... He's talking about seniors and teachers...
Not a word yet about Obama! Absolutely fascinating.

"They believe in teachers unions... We believe in teachers..."

Big applause from the blonde blue eyed crowd in the home of the Tampa Bay Lightning...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:52 am

"We need politicians who care about DOING something rather than BEING something."

<rolls eyes>

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:53 am

"Mitt Romney will tell us the truths we need to hear..."

Riiiight.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:55 am

24 minutes into his speech. Not one mention of the president. Absolutely fascinating.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:03 am

"We have never been victims of destiny. We have always been masters of our own.."

Sorensen/Kennedy this is not.

Now he's asking everyone to stand up for American greatness...

Hey! There's Mitt in the audience.

The speech is over... Watching Fox... The announcer just said the same thing... He never once mentioned Obama...

Fucking bizarre...

I'm sorry... Some of my best friends are Republicans... Republicans are just plain fucking bizzarre....

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:05 am

So now the Fox guy is saying.... "It is the most curious keynote speech he has ever seen."

The Fox guys are disappointed by the Christie speech.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:07 am

Juan Williams liked it.

If I were a Republican I would not have liked it.

Mixed reviews on the wife's speech.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:11 am

On to msnbc. They think he was off tonight.
I agree. This was not Christie's best moment.
He did not seize the moment. His stock just bottomed big time.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:16 am

Jim
So was ours.
We had WWII on our doorstep - Darwin was heavily bombed - more landed there than an Pearl Harbour.
We were also a convict colony more so than the USA - okay you got some too BUT the USA was more colonised by free settlers inlcuding the religious groups looking for freedom.
The Englsih dumped all sorts of unwanted felons in Australia who did dastardly things like stealing bread to stop starving to death.
We STILL have a slight convict mentality - and we have lots of famous outlaws as well - Ned Kelly the most famous.
And we still have a slight anti-authoritarian mentality and I have to say, there is LESS respect for authority in Australia than in the USA.
We also have less respect for bosses at work - read about cultural imprinting in Australia (a topic I've researched heavily over the yrs as a consultant and also academic).

We did not have a war of independence but the Poms hardly left on friendly terms and there is still considerable rivalry.
We also did not have a civil war (unless sport counts) though the states still hate each other.

And like the USA mainland, Aust is 3 milion sq miles. And has lots of feral pests.
We also have unfriendly neighbours (no, not just NZ... sorry Aust joke).

And Canada is another example.
it is simply a mindset. Once guns proliferate it is hard to stop it.
it took political courage here to reduce guns (and resultnat violence).
Sure the issue will never be resolved entirely but neither will cancer.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:22 am

The United States, Claudius, is all about money. The National Rifle Association is all about money. The politicians willing to stand up to the NRA -- Michael Bloomberg -- can literally be counted on one hand. The NRA will never be defeated in our lifetimes.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:26 am

The Christie speech is fascinating.
Mixed reviews from both the left and right.
I honestly feel it was a disappointment.
I was really expecting him to lay into Obama.

Claudius2 · Post by **Claudius2** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:30 am

Jim
I agree.
The NRA advised the local gun industy here before bans BUT locals here laughed at the motherhood and anecdotes they pedalled.

Like "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"
That's what we wanted. Then if you have a gun YOU are an outlaw. We know who you are and are coming for you.
They were shocked by such a response.
Don;t start on the "guns don;t kill, people do". Actually its the bullets.
'

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:40 am

I've given up any hope on the gun issue, at least in my lifetime.
We will always be a violent country. We will have our mass shootings every 2-3 months or so. The occasional assassination. It's just going to be a part of the way of life in the great U S of A. That's all there is to it. It is just one of those problems that our political system is not capable of fixing.

Can't get over what a bizarre night this was for the Republicans. I honestly think this was a good night for the Dems.

DavidG · Post by **DavidG** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:48 am

Not watching. In fact, I'm assiduously avoiding it. Your description of the Christie speech sounds a bit like Clinton's first convention address - long and booorrrring.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:57 am

It was just plain weird, David! I've always been fascinated by this Christie guy, even though I disagree with most of what he stands for. I thought he was the perfect keynote choice. I was expecting Republican raw meat. Instead, he gave us the first speech of the Christie '16 campaign. He didn't mention Obama once, and he didn't mention Romney until like the last 30 seconds of his speech. All he did was talk about himself. Absolutely bizarre. Don't the Republicans vet this stuff? I'm sorry. I know the Democrats are strange, but the Republicans are fucking freaks. They are insane. I try to give them the benefit if the doubt, but I can't. They are fucking mad. If the country votes for these lunatics, may heaven help us all.

Claret · Post by **Claret** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:51 am

JimHow wrote: If the country votes for these lunatics, may heaven help us all.

The Republicans will have their hands on the handle ready to flush the toilet with a giant whoosh. Mighty scary.

I have been reading this thread for a while. I have to applaud the participants for being so civil on a political thread in today's venomous culture.

Nobody cut my taxes when I lived in NJ. It was quite the contrary and one of the main reasons that I moved.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:13 am

I agree Glenn, it is almost impossible to find civil discourse about politics on the internet.

I thought these analyses of the Christie speech have it about right:

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc/48821773/#48821773

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:55 pm

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... peech.html

Houndsong · Post by **Houndsong** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:12 pm

Just scanning here. Seeing references to Christie mentioning American destiny and also references to Pearl Harbor. So did he utter that most American of all platitudes, "we didn't give up after the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, did we?!"

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:32 pm

Obama gained two points in Gallup today, which included polling from yesterday, and is now up by a point. The polls should be going the other way during the Republican convention. Romney should be getting a bounce of 5 points this week, not losing ground. I still say that Obama's salvation might end up being Romney and the Republicans. I mean, the Democrats truly are irresponsible big spenders, etc., etc., but these Republicans are completely overtaken by radicals. I thought Christie was an enormous disappointment. He definitely did not seize the moment!

JScott · Post by **JScott** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:20 am

Christie's Achilles heel (okay, he's got more than one) is his ego. He apparently decided to make this his formal introduction to the world in preparation for his '16 run. Big mistake. He did nothing to help his party or himself. Disappointment. Overall, I wouldn't personally categorize the convention as anything other than typical. But then my bar is low for these things.....

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:33 am

Since Nixon (more then 40 yrs!), the rate of government spending, and more importantly, the size of the of the deficit have grown faster under republican presidents than democratic ones. Yet, some how we all just agree that the dems are the big spenders. They both are! One spends it all on big defense and tax cuts, they others on less defense (but still a lot) and social programs. That's the difference.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:37 am

And the countdown continues towards the Ryan speech....

Watching a couple attorneys general up there, trashing Obama... Ah, yes.... Nothing like marrying politics and law enforcement.... Ah well, it's been going on forever, Attorney General Bobby Kennedy comes immediately to mind.

I will say, at least, that Florida AG is a looker!

Effective speech tonight by Rand Paul (who is vileness incorporated).... Too bad for the Republicans it was basically outside of primetime. As for old man McCain.... I think it is time for him to retire to that great Senate chamber in the sky....

So.... What do you think? Will Paul Ryan pull a Sarah Palin, and sed the Republicans into ecstacy? Should be a fascinatig speech! Need to brush up on my Ayn Rand....

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:38 am

Poor Mitt is not helped by the speakers at the convention. You and everyone else noted the self promoting keynote speech. I tried to watch the neverwas McCain, but he was so booorrring that I had to switch to the Giants' non game. Maybe Mitt can salvage something when he talks, but with friends like he has, who needs enemies?

JScott · Post by **JScott** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:41 am

Blanquito wrote:Since Nixon (more then 40 yrs!), the rate of government spending, and more importantly, the size of the of the deficit have grown faster under republican presidents than democratic ones. Yet, some how we all just agree that the dems are the big spenders. They both are! One spends it all on big defense and tax cuts, they others on less defense (but still a lot) and social programs. That's the difference.

If you're basing this on the Politico analysis, it's pretty flawed. That said, I completely agree neither party can claim to be responsible fiscally.

JScott · Post by **JScott** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:43 am

Ryan will be solid, always is. It's Mitt's address that will be most important. And I don't expect much.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:44 am

Jesus, when did John Roberts join Fox? I liked him at CBS. Now they're saying "they pulled Christie back," "wasted" him, etc.... <rolls eyes>

O'Reilly seems on edge tonight. He doesn't seem impressed by the Republican message so far.

I think this campaign, from the Republican perspective, needs a Sarah Palin moment.... I don't see it coming from Rob Portman, I don't see it coming from Marco Rubio or Mitt Romney.

It is either going to come from Paul Ryan and/or Jeb Bush, or it's not gonna come at all....