Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

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Comte Flaneur
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Blanquito wrote:I must say, this thread has been my favorite in a long while (however doubtful that Ian and Mark would agree)...
Patrick it was fun for about a day, now it is getting tedious.

Trust me I was not looking to pick a fight with our esteemed Australian expat, I was merely challenging the notion that just because a right banker has never won WOTY we should award it to one this year. I tried to do it in as civil a fashion as possible, by emphasising that right banks should not be seen as a poor relation to left banks. A rational and reasonable person would have countered with a civilised and well reasoned argument for a particular 08 right bank. It would have been a polite and dignified discussion.

Unfortunately just because I challenged his reasoning he took it as a personal attack. I am not a psychologist so I don’t know what this condition is called. Perhaps I could name it delusional paranoia syndrome (DPS), or something like that. Only after several incoherent diatribes and personal insults did he articulate the case for the 08 right banks. If he had done so in the first place we would not have had this back and forth.

I blame Arthur for goading our little aussie battler and for inflaming the situation...

You know me Patrick I don’t suffer fools gladly and I am not going to stand idly by and take that kind of bile from someone who is clearly mentally unbalanced. Yes and we have seen this movie before from another visitor you tried to present all of his opinions – or more accurately the opinions of the entity he was representing – as fact or gospel.

Yesterday he posted twice, merely repeating himself the second time...if anything the second (longer) post was even more incoherent and confused than the first. I mean what is the bloody point???

The notion that the middle class has fallen progressively behind is of course not new news. As if I was unaware of it given what I do for a living. It has been reflected in primary data sources for a very long time, for example earlier editions of the survey of consumer finances. In fact income and wealth distribution more so than ever has an important bearing on macroeconomic outcomes, but that is for a separate discussion. So when some armchair amateur voyeur picks this up in the Economist magazine – which by the way is good for reporting news but is often analytically weak – as if this is a completely new revelation – and then spouts the crap that middle class Americans should top themselves on an American board it is naive, offensive and unacceptable. And it was good to see a bon fide academic take him to task for it on a previous thread.

When I used to spar with Tom – we are best mates now – at least I knew I was sparring with someone with a strong intellect. This time it is getting very tedious because I know I will wake up to the same rehashed bile and vitriol. It reminds me of the Black Knight in Monty Python’s Holy Grail. You can chop all the limbs off but the torso on the ground will still be spitting poison at you.

Maybe another Monty Python sketch is appropriate for our well travelled and well schooled ex-pat. Anne Elk, who was dealt with more ruthlessly than the Black Knight.

P.S. You can substitute the bits about the Brontosaurus for the notion that the middle classes have been squeezed.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by robertgoulet »

2004 SHL
Last tasted during a 2004 Bordeaux horizontal at release. I can’t locate my notes right now, but seemed to be impressed by it for me to purchase and store a few bottles, all in magnums.
ha ha!! Yes, I would say you were impressed.
the wine that really stood out for me was the 05 d'Issan, followed closely by the 06.
d'issan, I tasted the '06 about 7 months back. A nice wine. As for the Margaux' s I discussed in previously in this thread, I feel the '04 Alter Ego currently is the better wine. Though, I may prefer the '06 d'issan over the '05 lascombes. I have the '05 D'issan, but yet to taste.


I will pick up an '08 SHL.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by Blanquito »

"Creamy", yes that's what I get from the (admittedly few) SHLs I've tried. And toasty oak.

It's funny, people refer to their evolving wine likes and dislikes through the years, and I know what they mean. One buddy's tolerance of "green" is now all but gone, for instance. For me, it's new oak, its heavy use really turns me off. I once liked it. I know some times it can integrate and be soaked up by the fruit, but even still why so much? I gather old wood has it's problems too (capable of imparting a musty note), but for me, excessive new oak is a terrible wine making sin of the first order. It hides the bouquet and masks the fruit, and can impart a prickly quality to the palate with rough oak tannins. Oh, it can be nice in a supporting role, but it's been taken to silly levels...

Bacchus, your thoughts about the 2005 d'Issan are great. I haven't opened any of my 05 d'Issan yet, but I loved the 2000 version and I thought the 2004 was also excellent. It's become one of my go-to chateau.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by JimHow »

I'm going to pick up a 2008 SHL as well, Robert, any idea whether you, Bacchus, myself and anyone else can drink it in the coming week? We can devote a thread to it.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by Nicklasss »

I'm posting my TN about the 2006 Chateau Smith Haut-Laffite and 2006 Chateau Gruaud Larose. I'm not saying I'm the best taster or writer, but I try to stay ''fair and equal'' when I'm evaluating wine. By reading these, you can see that I really liked both wine, but they are very different and I personnally give the edge to the Gruaud, for it traditionnal claret style. I bought some more 06 Gruaud, but no 06 SHL. But like I already said, I understand that a ''candy wine'' (or call it ''sex in a bottle wine'' if you like) please most of wine lovers and can win the BWE Wine of the year. ''Candy wine'' has nothing ''negative'' for me, the 2006 Chateau Smith Haut Laffite is still complex, pleasing, more oaky and sweet, with Graves characteristics. ''Candy wine'' is probably my definition of a ''wine giving a lot''', ''impressive'', but would you ate only candy? The 2006 Gruaud Larose is not a candy, but delicious, medium structured and balanced. So compare to a meal, I would say the 06 Gruaud is like the main plate for me, as the 06 Smith Haut-Laffite is the dessert, and personnally, I can eat a second plate of the main meal, but rarely a second dessert.


2006 Chateau smith Haut-Laffite
My parents came back from Spain 3 days ago, after 2 months away. They invited Simone and me for dinner, and with the T-bone on the grill, I brought a 2006 Chateau Smith Haut Laffite to pair. This Pessac-Léognan is really nice. Dark red color, envouting nose of blackberries, earth, smoke, light blueberries and some vanillin and oak. Still primary but really good nose anyway. Creamy. In mouth, well it is a velvety style of wine, with good core of black berries and smoke, add some tobacco, minerals, maybe a light cedar/medicinal touch, oak and toffey, and a medium structured final with smooth abundant tannins. This is well done, typical from Pessac-Léognan, concentrated but balanced with light acidity too. All in all, I'm recommending it. I don't know if Smith Haut Laffite can be better. TN : 92-93. I think this will develop well over 15 years.

2006 Chateau Gruaud Larose
The wine is quite good. This is typically funky St-Julien, remind me a mix between Talbot and Lagrange. Color was light purple red. Nose is powerful, with lots of red berries, rasberries, funky leather, oak, vanilla, dark berries, black currant. A really nice nose, for a 2006. Probably one of the most interesting/concentrated nose I had for a 2006, up to now. Mouth is flavorfull as well. Good core of santalwood, mixed with some rasberries and blackcurrants, a light touch of animal, with a long medium tannic mineral and ripe red currants finish. Really balanced too and reconfirm that my favorite AOC in the Médoc is St-Julien. i would like to try that wine again in 15-20 years, as it has good matter to get there. TN : 91-92+. I liked the 2006 Chateau Smith haut-Laffite as well, but that 06 Gruaud is more classical to the claret style, so i preferred it.

And yes, the word ''Creamy'' is only in my description for the SHL...

Nic
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by Ianjaig »

I tried the 06 SHL at a Bordeaux tasting a couple of years ago and it was outstanding. So much so that I went out a bought a case. The word that stood out for me when describing the wine was Mocha!!!

I havent tried the 08 SHL but of the 08s I have tried two have stood out - the Leoville Barton and the Malescot. Both delicious wines.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by Bacchus »

Thanks for the notes, Nic. I too like GL. In fact, I like it a lot; got cases of the 04, 05 and 06. In fact, the only wines I may own more of are PLL and PC. By the way, for me "sex in a bottle," is not the same as "candy." Having drunk Aussie wines (along with Cali cabs) for a good 15 yrs before switching to Bdx a few years back (actually, returning to Bdx is the truer descriptor, since I drank more Bdx than anything else in the late 80s), I have some sense of what a candied wine is. For me candy is Willy Wonka, sex in a bottle is Scarlet Johansen, or, if like your wine you prefer your women with more maturity, Sophia Lauren! But there is certainly a great distance between GL and d'Issan. And you're right about another thing -- there are times when I prefer to drink GL over d'Issan; hence the case lots. We're probably all like that: some nights are for coffee, some for hot chocolate, and others for a good scotch!

I'm heading over to the store now, as a matter of fact, and will pick up an 08 SHL. Look forward to it.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by JimHow »

Great, Bacchus, we should do a thread on the 2008 SHL.
I don't think I'm going to be able to get down to NH this afternoon, though, more likely tomorrow.
Robert Goulet, are you in?
Anyone else?
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by dstgolf »

Over the years I've tried quite a number of vintages of SHL on peoples recommendations. I must say it's not my sttle. A little too much extraction and heavily toasted oak is off putting. 98 was a little green pepper with oak juice chaser that tainted my initial opinion. Only thing worse for me than over toasted oak is green pepper and olive juice from unripe Cab!

Next up was a bottle of 2000 SHL in Paris with my wife. Again too much toasted oak with good backbone of fruit and tannins. 2001 all I remeber was the oak and 2004 made me feel "welcome to California"! 2006 tannins were on the harsh side overpowering the toasted oak.

Maybe some like the direction some Bordeaux houses are heading but this is not one that I enjoy.

d'Issan has been a more consistant new world styled wine with nice extraction,dark red/purple fruits but without the toasted oak. It has been a reliable wine year in year out since at least 2005. If it comes down to a contest between the SHL and 05 d'Issan my vote would go to d'Issan because of its consistancy,affordability and the fact that BWE left their mark around there vineyard in 2005. I wish I had pictures of the number of guys taking a leak amongst the vines during our visit in 2005 with BWE. Maybe that's why the wine has been so good!
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by DavidG »

In my very humble opinion, if you're drinking a Bordeaux from a vintage that starts with a "2" it is too early to write it off for having too much oak. Unless you just plain like drinking them within 10 years of release. That's not my thing, but if it is for you and you don't like the presence of obvious oak you are going to have to pick a different group of wines than you would if you aged most of them. The majority of 1st-5th growth Bdx that have tasted oaky to me in their youth have developed nicely. Tho overt oak disappears.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by robertgoulet »

Nailed down an 08 SHL today and a bonus, i was offered a mag of 99 d'issan half off so i got it for 9o bucks
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by JimHow »

Okay great, I'm going to start a separate 2008 SHL thread.
I don't have my bottle yet, I'm going to get one in NH.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by robertgoulet »

I may pop the 04 and 08 together but would like to do it with my bordeaux buddy here locally if we can swing it
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by Bacchus »

Dan, other than the 2003 Lillian Ladouys, which isn't available here, what other Bdx have you had this year that excites you, and might be considered for BWE WOTY (or not)?
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by Bacchus »

Thought I'd put together a list of the wines so far suggested for WOTY, with some indication of their relative support. That was a bit difficult to determine sometimes because people sometimes praised a wine without actually voting for it. But I've tried my best to sort that out by being "sensitive" to tone. But I admit it is possible to get a slightly different count depending on how each individual reader responds to things. Nonetheless, hopefully it'll give us a broad sense of how things are developing:

96 PLL 4 votes
04 SHL 4 votes

06 Gruaud Larose 3 votes
05 GPL 3 votes
98 Grand Mayne 3 votes

02 SHL 2 votes
05 d'Issan 2 votes

And then a series of suggestions receiving only the vote of those recommending them (i.e., 1 vote each): 08 Beausejour DL, 95 Rauzan-Segla, 96 Cos d'Estournel, 06 Domaine de Chevalier, 94 Gazin, 08 La Consellante, 08 VCC, 08 Gazin, 08 Haut Bailly, 05 Lascombes, 94 Pape Clement Blanc.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by dstgolf »

David,

I don't entirely agree with your assessment with young wines and oak. Heavy toast with those charred notes will mature into those torrified wines with age. Lots of people enjoy the tarry/burnt rubber notes. A little is acceptable but a lot....Everything in youthful Bordeaux(wine in general) is balance. When oak is dominating and especially charred/over toasted oak it turns me off in its youth and won't age into the graceful balanced elder gem. If you want to prove me wrong and 15-20 years from now my wife can wheel me down to DC/Baltimore and I'll visit you in the nursing home and we can share through a straw. :D

Bacchus,

Best wine with promise this year is the 2006 Leoville Las Case. Wine of the vintage??
Best young Bordeaux in reasonable price range, youth and promise 2006 Domaine de Chevalier
Best aged Bordeaux 1986 Gruaud Larose
Best Californian 1997 Caymus
Best Italian 1998 Gaji Sori Tilden

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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by DavidG »

Danny, the most astonishing example of oak integration over time that I ever experienced was a bottle of 19-ninety-something Elderton Command Shiraz. It was an oak monster in its youth and I gave away most of my bottles as they were too oaky even for me. Then someone brought a 12-yo bottle to a tasting and lo and behold, the oak had integrated. The wine did not turn into Bordeaux, but then it was never meant to be. And this could be the exception that proves the rule.

You make a good point about us being OTH by the time the '09s are 10-15 years old. Name a few '00s that were too oaky and maybe we can do this in about 5 years, when we still have our faculties.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by Bacchus »

Interesting list Dan. Couldn't agree more about the 06 DomChev. Indeed, it was I who suggested we consider it for WOTY. Shall we say it now has 2 votes?! :)

I never did try the 97 Caymus, which is odd since I drank a lot more Cali Cabs back then and it received a lot of accolades. The last Caymus I tried was the 07, which received almost as many accolades. I found it undrinkable, but at least I was able to patch my driveway with it. :lol: On the other hand, perhaps because I used to drink a lot of new world oak monsters, I don't seem to be as bothered as you and some others by the amount of oak being used in Bdx these days. Maybe there's a drinking strategy here. Drink a few Henry's Drive or Torbreck shirazes, and you'll appreciate the lighter touch on even an 04 Lascombes! :lol:

Never tried the 06 LLC; at $389 its a bit too rich for my wallet.

As for Italians, picked up a mixed case of 07 Barolos a couple of weeks ago. They're threatening to be very good wines.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by dstgolf »

The Caymus had been sitting in the cellar for years being brought back from Florida. Hadn't had one in years but I must say this was pretty amazing mature high end pomerol like. If this was an oak monster in its youth then I'll eat my words but I certainly don't remember Caymus as ever being over oaked.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by DavidG »

Caymus most definitely has had a reputation for receiving heavy oak treatment, though my personal experience stopped with the '94. I remember tasting the '94 Caymus Special Selection in its youth and my immediate reaction was "pickle barrel." It turned into a decent wine.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by Winona Chief »

My impression of the 1994 Caymus Special Selection is very similar to that of DavidG. After tasting it at age 10, I gave away my last bottle to a charity auction.

But back to the issue of wine of the year. My vote (and I realise this isn't a democracy) is for 1996 Pichon Lalande. It was my wine of the night in a rather large Pichon Baron versus Pichon Lalande vertical at Palena in DC in May. Most eveyone there had it in the top three (along with 1983 Pichon Lalande and 1989 Pichon Lalande). The top five wines were all Pichon Lalande - unfortunately the 1989 Pichon Baron was off and many of the other Barons seemed simple in comparison to the Lalandes.

Every time I have had an opportunity to drink the 1996 Pichon Lalande it has been wonderful. Furthermore so many recent bottles of Pichon Lalande (including 1970, 1975, 1978, 1979, 1981, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1995 and 1996) have been just so lovely it is challenging Haut Brion as my favorite Bordeaux.

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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by Houndsong »

For me the 2006 SHL was unmistakable as SHL from most descriptions I'd then read of it, and I'd put creamy at the top of my impressions. Still it was enjoyable, although I preferred the 06 Domaine de Chevalier as more my style.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by robertgoulet »

I'm still lobbying!!!

the latest cellartracker note: (not me)


2004 Château Smith Haut Lafitte (France, Bordeaux, Graves, Pessac-Léognan)
Tasted by CdP in NYC on 12/29/2011 & rated 94 points: Consistent w/ 3/13/2010 tasting. Big time espresso as well. This is a thing of beauty. (48 views) Report issue,
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by JimHow »

I may be sipping on the BWE Wine of the Year right now, Robert, I dunno...
In some ways it would be a controversial choice....
But I have to do what I, in my benevolence, feels is right....
Decisions, decisions....
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by robert goulet »

do what u must sir, I respect ur decision
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by pomilion »

Bacchus wrote:Thought I'd put together a list of the wines so far suggested for WOTY, with some indication of their relative support. That was a bit difficult to determine sometimes because people sometimes praised a wine without actually voting for it. But I've tried my best to sort that out by being "sensitive" to tone. But I admit it is possible to get a slightly different count depending on how each individual reader responds to things. Nonetheless, hopefully it'll give us a broad sense of how things are developing:

96 PLL 4 votes
04 SHL 4 votes

06 Gruaud Larose 3 votes
05 GPL 3 votes
98 Grand Mayne 3 votes

02 SHL 2 votes
05 d'Issan 2 votes
Of those receiving votes (in some sense) so far, I'd "fourth" 05 GPL -- have had it multiple times, and it's going to be an absolutely sensational wine in another 10 years (and is available for under $100). I'm also a big fan of 04 SHL (haven't had 06). But I humbly respect the decision of the power that be...
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by DavidG »

Boy, is Jim really gonna keep us in suspence until 11:59PM (?:29 for our Newfoundland friends)?
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by JonoB »

Bloody hell, it will be 2012 by then here!!

I would from that list go for 06 Gruaud Larose.
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Re: Seeking nominations for the 2011 BWE Wine of the Year....

Post by robertgoulet »

Jim did u ever read the note(cellartracker) from 6/11/08 on the '04 SHL by the Pavie Princess, talk about an impressive note. A wine consultant friend of mine knows the Pavie Princess and says the Princess is a serious bordeaux drinker with a deep deep cellar.
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