Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

Rolland does as much consulting as the owner wants; be it in the vineyard, where he is apparently very knowledgeable about the health of the vines or the cellar where he makes a pig’s breakfast out of everything. The biggest problem is his take on ripeness, where he pushes for the pruny over the fresh.
I know at Corbin, his assistant is only used in the vineyard, and Rolland does not determine picking or have anything to do with selection. OTOH, at Larrivet Haut Brion at least initially he was essentially making all the winemaking decisions.

Musigny 151 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:32 pm Rolland does as much consulting as the owner wants; be it in the vineyard, where he is apparently very knowledgeable about the health of the vines or the cellar where he makes a pig’s breakfast out of everything. The biggest problem is his take on ripeness, where he pushes for the pruny over the fresh.
I know at Corbin, his assistant is only used in the vineyard, and Rolland does not determine picking or have anything to do with selection. OTOH, at Larrivet Haut Brion at least initially he was essentially making all the winemaking decisions.

Stephane Derenoncourt took over Rolland’s role at Larrivet, but I do not know when. My uncle brought a 2018 Thanksgiving dinner. I poured a glass, hated it, Gloppy grape juice. Did not even finish more than 1/2, moved on to a more delicious, cheap Cotes du Rhône.

Pessac-Leognan/Graves is close to DTM. So many excellent wines have gone to the dark. Sadly, this was once my favorite appellation, and the one that drew me into Bordeaux.

Agreed. Not impressed by the latest efforts of La Mission and Haut Brion, and the also rans also seem spoofed. Haut Bailly seems ok, but have not tasted any since 2016.

I don't have to worry because there are enough classic 80-90's 2000/1 bordeaux to keep me happy until the day I die, plus Chinon and lovely Bojo cru for daily drinkers...sprinkle in some burgs and voila....a successful game plan

Two other interesting candidates for WOTY could be 2016 Potensac and Saint Pierre.

Anybody to recommend a 2017? At UGC, i thought the 2017 Talbot was solid.

My 2014 VCCs have shipped.
I will try one in the next couple weeks.
Too bad you can't get down here, Nicola, we could assess it among many other fine beauties from both the left and the right banks.

Conference with the Alaska judge coming up on Tuesday, I will know very soon how miserable my schedule will or will not be in the immediate weeks and months ahead.

I'm just not finding much enjoyment out of young wine...and as u have said Jim, with modern wine making techniques used today, all the houses are starting to taste the same.

I'm out

robert goulet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:10 pm I'm just not finding much enjoyment out of young wine...and as u have said Jim, with modern wine making techniques used today, all the houses are starting to taste the same.

I'm out

At 50, not a bad Idea to be buying up what you like, even if young, to set aside for drinking in your 60s. There are some awfully good 14s and 16s on the market that are still quite classic.

Let me just toss out one sleeper, Chateau Ferriere, since you like Margaux so much. It’s utterly classic and still around $50. It’s a Third Growth for Gosh sakes! And with a Leve-88 rating, on the Leve-Alfert Inverse Rating Scale (LAIRS), surely it scores a 94. The 2016 only saw 40% new oak (yay) and 20% amphora.

I remember tasting with Jeff the 1998 Magdelaine against the 1999 Pavie. I will leave you to guess which one he preferred.

I would recommend the 2016 Lafon Rochet.

I’ve never understood why Jeff just doesn’t drink Napa wines. I know he claims they don’t do the same thing as modern Bordeaux, but I don’t see it.

robert goulet wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:50 pm I don't have to worry because there are enough classic 80-90's 2000/1 bordeaux to keep me happy until the day I die, plus Chinon and lovely Bojo cru for daily drinkers...sprinkle in some burgs and voila....a successful game plan

Yes, we’re lucky. It’s the poor cows just building their cellars (since circa 2006) that are screwed, thinking they have a room full of 95+ pt claret, scores which Parker almost never gave pre-2005, when instead they’ve got something completely different.

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:39 pm

robert goulet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:10 pm I'm just not finding much enjoyment out of young wine...and as u have said Jim, with modern wine making techniques used today, all the houses are starting to taste the same.

I'm out

At 50, not a bad Idea to be buying up what you like, even if young, to set aside for drinking in your 60s. There are some awfully good 14s and 16s on the market that are still quite classic.

Let me just toss out one sleeper, Chateau Ferriere, since you like Margaux so much. It’s utterly classic and still around $50. It’s a Third Growth for Gosh sakes! And with a Leve-88 rating, on the Leve-Alfert Inverse Rating Scale (LAIRS), surely it scores a 94. The 2016 only saw 40% new oak (yay) and 20% amphora.

LAIRS ...bahahaha luv it...so true...I've tasted the 2010 amd '03 Ferriere...'10it was too young and tight bit promising and can't really recall the '03, it was in a big line up, so it kinda got lost ...thanx for the rec. though

Musigny 151 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:45 pm I remember tasting with Jeff the 1998 Magdelaine against the 1999 Pavie. I will leave you to guess which one he preferred.

I brought the '99 pavie to a pavie vertical with Bobby...its was the only somewhat decent bottle in the line up, but in no way can it compete with Magdelaine.

robert goulet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:46 pm

Musigny 151 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:45 pm I remember tasting with Jeff the 1998 Magdelaine against the 1999 Pavie. I will leave you to guess which one he preferred.

I brought the '99 pavie to a pavie vertical with Bobby...its was the only somewhat decent bottle in the line up, but in no way can it compete with Magdelaine.

While not on par with the 98 Magdelaine, but I have had the 98 Pavie twice and enjoyed it. I think Perse bought Pavie by then but clearly had not exerted his heavy hand yet. That really hit in 2000, and by 2003 this baby was DTM.

William P wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:58 pm I would recommend the 2016 Lafon Rochet.

I am not sure if a third WOTY from 2016 is in the offing...

robert goulet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:46 am
Musigny 151 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:45 am
I remember tasting with Jeff the 1998 Magdelaine against the 1999 Pavie. I will leave you to guess which one he preferred.
I brought the '99 pavie to a pavie vertical with Bobby...its was the only somewhat decent bottle in the line up, but in no way can it compete with Magdelaine.
While not on par with the 98 Magdelaine, but I have had the 98 Pavie twice and enjoyed it. I think Perse bought Pavie by then but clearly had not exerted his heavy hand yet. That really hit in 2000, and by 2003 this baby was DTM.

I loved the 1998/99/00 Pavies in their infancy.
I've got a half bottle of the 1998 left, should probably uncork it at some point.

Chateau Vin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:58 pm

William P wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:58 pm I would recommend the 2016 Lafon Rochet.

I am not sure if a third WOTY from 2016 is in the offing...

That's why I didn't suggest it earlier, but Nic nominated two 2016s so I thought I would mention it.

Bill

I am sure the 2016 Lafon-Rochet is a splendid wine Bill. However in my opinion it would be a travesty - perhaps that is too strong a word - to award this coveted BWE accolade to a wine from this vintage when they will never be drinking as awkwardly as they are now. Viz Lynch & Baron. Some say the hallmark of a great wine is that you can drink it at any stage of its life and it delivers maximum pleasure - surely 1982 Pichon Lalande is the best example of this phenomenon? - I first encountered it in 1991 aged nine and it showed a clean pair of heels to a posse of first growths - but, more generally, there is probably never a worse time to drink a 2016 than in 2021/22. So why 2014? Because it is a much more easy going vintage. I would wager that the 2014 VCC is drinking a heck of a lot better than its 2016 bigger, albeit, younger sibling.

I discovered that Montrose never made it for the BWE wine of the year. I recently drunk a bottle of 2003 and it was one of the best Bdx wines I ever had.

Montrose is definitely a wine I've had my eye on for quite some time, sisler, to me they have been making some of the most compelling wines in Bordeaux over the past 30 years. Performance over a sustained period of time is one of the factors I consider. I have Montrose right at the top of my second growth ranking, along with Pichon Baron.

sisler wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:30 pm I discovered that Montrose never made it for the BWE wine of the year. I recently drunk a bottle of 2003 and it was one of the best Bdx wines I ever had.

Have you tried the 2005?

Personally I think it is better than the 2003, it is a stunning wine. I went out and immediately bought more.

My bordeaux WOTY so far is 1993 D'issan

sisler wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:30 pm I discovered that Montrose never made it for the BWE wine of the year. I recently drunk a bottle of 2003 and it was one of the best Bdx wines I ever had.

That's what I thought too.

(I have not had one in a very long time so those were my impressions when it was young)

The 1989 Montrose was the first wine that blew my mind.

robert goulet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:16 pm My bordeaux WOTY so far is 1993 D'issan

BobbyG, you are a very odd duck.

Big Papi needs to pop better wines for you!

I guess the 2016 Château Saint Pierre is that type of excellent wine that will never shut down.

Blanquito wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:26 pm Yes, we’re lucky. It’s the poor cows just building their cellars (since circa 2006) that are screwed, thinking they have a room full of 95+ pt claret, scores which Parker almost never gave pre-2005, when instead they’ve got something completely different.

Since I only started in 2017!!!! what does that make me?!? Oh god, what have I done???

OrlandoRobert wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:10 am

robert goulet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:16 pm My bordeaux WOTY so far is 1993 D'issan

BobbyG, you are a very odd duck.

Big Papi needs to pop better wines for you!

U have! ...what can I say?...that wine spoke to me...I would of bit someone's hand off if they tried to pour a glass!!

One particular wine that is not discussed a lot on here is Montrose 2016.

It is comfortably the best wine this estate has ever produced - this was clear at a vertical I attended with Herve Berland.

Kicking myself for not buying it as the price is really on the move as the market has cottoned on.

Maybe for another year for the coveted and internationally prestigious BWE wotv accolade.

Comte Flaneur wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:40 am One particular wine that is not discussed a lot on here is Montrose 2016.

It is comfortably the best wine this estate has ever produced - this was clear at a vertical I attended with Herve Berland.

Kicking myself for not buying it as the price is really on the move as the market has cottoned on.

Maybe for another year for the coveted and internationally prestigious BWE wotv accolade.

You are killin me!!!

I’ve been trying not to buy this wine, me being 56 and Montrose usually needing so much time!

God do I love this Chateau.

Comte Flaneur wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:40 am One particular wine that is not discussed a lot on here is Montrose 2016.

I am sure the 2016 Montrose is a splendid wine Ian. However in my opinion it would be a travesty - perhaps that is too strong a word - to award this coveted BWE accolade to a wine from this vintage when they will never be drinking as awkwardly as they are now. As you say maybe another time.

My wines of the year
1998 Figeac (at Bill and Jan’s place back in March)
1996 Lafite (at Jim’s place in August)

I vote for 1998 Figeac as my BWE WOTY and I don’t care about recent years and vintages, I hate voting based on potential. The Figeac is a deserving WOTY. My 2 cents

jal wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:39 pm My wines of the year
1998 Figeac (at Bill and Jan’s place back in March)
1996 Lafite (at Jim’s place in August)

I vote for 1998 Figeac as my BWE WOTY and I don’t care about recent years and vintages, I hate voting based on potential. The Figeac is a deserving WOTY. My 2 cents

This makes me very happy, having just purchased 6 bottles of the next BWE WOTY!

And your comments about the 98 captures my reaction exactly, except it was for Harry’s magnum of the 95 Figeac in DC on 10/1 (not having had the 98 Figeac since you and Jill were in Denver in 2017). I’ve had so many incredible wines this year, at the Convention, in London and France, but there was something extra special about that 95 Figeac.

I had a 1970 Figeac that is one of my top 5 scoring wines this year.
But my top wine, in spite of it's stature, is probably not a candidate for WOTY in 2021 - 1961 Ch. Latour.

William P wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:34 pm

Comte Flaneur wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:40 am One particular wine that is not discussed a lot on here is Montrose 2016.

I am sure the 2016 Montrose is a splendid wine Ian. However in my opinion it would be a travesty - perhaps that is too strong a word - to award this coveted BWE accolade to a wine from this vintage when they will never be drinking as awkwardly as they are now. As you say maybe another time.

LOL

William P wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:34 pm

Comte Flaneur wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:40 am One particular wine that is not discussed a lot on here is Montrose 2016.

I am sure the 2016 Montrose is a splendid wine Ian. However in my opinion it would be a travesty - perhaps that is too strong a word - to award this coveted BWE accolade to a wine from this vintage when they will never be drinking as awkwardly as they are now. As you say maybe another time.

Seems to me like this thread has gone stale, so which way is Jim leaning and when is the big reveal?

I predict: 2014 VCC.

Not a vote either way, just a guess at Jim's pick based on his posts.
But he’s a cagey "simple country lawyer," unlikely to reveal his hand, so I’m probably wrong.

Hmmm it’s a tough call this year….

I would surely consider the strong case shown by Clerc Milon lately...