Margaux appellation pecking order

[Comte Flaneur]

Greetings from flaming London where the mercury reached 40C/104F today - totally nuts

I am going to use a liberal, expansive perhaps not strictly accurate definition of the appellation, perhaps I should call it Margaux and the Southern Medoc, but I am not including any second wines or white wines - so no Pavillon Blanc or Rouge

My Margaux pecking order is:

1. Chateau Margaux
2. Chateau Palmer

Couldn’t be any different but now it is gets more interesting

3.Rauzan-Segla
4.D’Issan
5.Brane-Cantenac

I think these three are evenly matched and could have come in any order, now I am going to bend the rules a bit

6. Giscours
7. La Lagune
8. Du Tertre
9. Bel Air-Marquis d’Aligre
10. Prieure-Lichine
11. Cantemerle

After this estates I am pretty indifferent to so will stop when I get to 16even though I will miss quite a few that I have had little experience of trying

12. Malescot-St-Exupery
13. Lascombes
14. Ferriere
15. Kirwan
16. Dufort-Vivens

What are yours?

[William P]

Good thread Ian.

1.Chateau Margaux
2.Chateau Palmer
3.Rauzan-Segla
4.Brane-Cantenac
5.D’Issan
6.La Lagune
7.Giscours (True it's been on a roll for the last few years)
8.Du Tertre
9.Cantemerle
10. Prieure-Lichine
11. Marquis De Terme (okay small sample of vintage size here. I liked the 2015)

[Racer Chris]

I thought Cantemerle is classified as Haut-Medoc.

Cru Bourgeois Margaux wines in my cellar currently:
Marsac Seguineau
Labegorce
Siran
Tour de Mons

[Musigny 151]

Margaux
Palmer

Rauzan Segla

Brane Cantenac
Issan
Giscours

Du Tertre
Prieure Lichine
Cantermerle

Chris is right. La Lagune is not a Margaux but an Haut Medoc.

[Racer Chris]

Cru Classe Margaux wines in my cellar currently:
Ch. Margaux
Rausan Segla & Rauzan Segla
Brane Cantenac
Cantenac Brown
Giscours
d'Issan
Malescot St Exupery
Prieure Lichine
du Tertre

[Nicklasss]

Did i have drank enough different Margaux of different vintages to do a listing? I guess i never had any Desmirail, Rauzan Gassies, Marquis de Terme or Boyd Cantenac. I had once Prieuré Lichine (1995), Kirwan (1996), Dauzac (2017). I had two times Durfort Vivens, Ferriëre and Lascombes (the 1970 is quite good btw). So for those i had more often:

The evidences (the swans)
1. Margaux
2. Palmer (i know the terroir is slightly different, but i would like to try a Palmer with more Cab)
3. Rauzan Ségla (need more years to become great, as can be not perceived as a great wine when young)

The tough part to grade (the herons)
4. Brane-Cantenac
5. D'Issan
6. Giscours
7. Du Tertre

The sometimes hard to understand (can be ugly ducks or herons)
8. Malescot Saint Exupéry (good to excellent, seems to be more seductive young, losing "something like it gloss" with time)
9. Cantenac Brown (not bad, but surely at this position vs Châteaux above)

[Comte Flaneur]

Chris and Mark if you read my post you would see that I am using an expanded definition, to include the southern Medoc - properties like La Lagune and Cantemerle - just as Robert Parker did in his tome ‘Bordeaux’ various editions.

[JoelD]

Basically had to copy and paste Musigny's list with a few additions. I even agreed with basically the exact order and I really like having Rauzan Segla in it's own tier.

Margaux
Palmer

Rauzan Segla

Brane Cantenac
Issan
Giscours

Du Tertre
Prieure Lichine
La Lagune
Cantermerle
Bel Air-Marquis d'Aligre

Malescot
Cantenac Brown

I wonder, for future votes like this, should we narrow the vintage parameters a bit? So many changes from the 80's till now in Bordeaux in general and at many of these estates. Also some taste many young wines, others taste almost none.

[AlexR]

Hi Ian,

Very good idea for a post.
For what it’s worth, here’s my feedback, thumbnail version.

Yes, Margaux and Palmer are indeed head and shoulders above the others.

Issan: This château gets a lot of love but, in my opinion, more than it deserves.
There are ten third growths in Margaux. As I see it, Issan is cited out of all proportion to its intrinsic value compared to the others.

Brane Cantenac: They have come up in the world starting in 2010 in my opinion. Now has 2nd growth quality.

Kirwan: Went through a bad phase but have since picked up.

Ferrière : Great value for money, underrated.

Cantenac Brown: The new owner is pouring millions into the estate. Money many not be everything, but I’m willing to be that we will be hearing much more about this estate in the near future.

Malescot Saint-Exupéry: I’m more bullish than you on this classic and somewhat under-the-radar claret.

Boyd Cantenac: Never knocked anyone’s socks off, but good old-fashioned attractively-priced stuff. Their 4th growth, Pouget, somehow seems like a second wine.

Marquis d’Alèsme: Unexciting.

Du Tertre: always liked their wines, and good value for money.

Giscours : gets criticized a lot, but can be surprisingly good.

Bel Air-Marquis d’Aligre : An anachronism, good but people ofen love it for reasons other than the quality of the wine.

Prieure-Lichine: If you take the wine on its own merits, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. A 2000 tasted recently was delicious.

Marquis de Terme: I’ve attended vertical tastings of this wine on a couple of occasions and was never impressed.

La Lagune: worthy of its classification and perhaps then some.

Cantemerle: Very reliable, medium-range, good value wine.

Rauzan Ségla : I’m less enthusiastic than many of you.

Rauzan Gassies: bor-ring

Durfort Vivens: There’s considerable buzz about this wine in Bordeaux, which is making huge strides. Definitely one to watch.

Alex R.

[AKR]

I'd think the non classified d'Angludet and Monbrison along with neighboring Medoc Cambon La Pelouse are at least worth some mentions at the end of the film credits!

[AlexR]

Ohn, and L'Aura, the AOC Margaux from Cambon La Pelouse, is a really good wine.

AR

[Nicklasss]

If you want to include Cantemerle and La Lagune, they would be ex aquo on number 5 with d'Issan.

[JimHow]

I think you guys got it about right, I might move Giscours up a notch but otherwise....

[ericp]

I agree, I'd also bump Malescot up a bit as well.

1. Margaux
2. Palmer

3. Rauzan Ségla

4. Giscours
5. Brane-Cantenac
6. D'Issan
7. Du Tertre

8. Malescot
9. Cantemerle
10. La Lagune (apologies Bill!)

[Nicklasss]

It is amazing how the Margaux ranking consistency, between all of us, is quite the same.

I guess we would not see that for any other major aoc (St-Estèphe, St-Julien, Pauillac, Pomerol or St-Émilion).

[DavidG]

Margaux
Palmer

Rauzan Segla
d’Issan
Giscours
BAMA, for going their own way
Prieure Lichine - personal/sentimental soft spot for this
du Tertre

Lots of high marks for Brane Cantenac but I haven’t had any of the vintages since 2000 so no comment.

[Winona Chief]

Not too good at this since I have not enough red Bordeaux from vintages after 2001 to evaluate and rank the various producers.

Chris Bublitz

[Winona Chief]

But if we are looking at 1966 to 1999:

Margaux (really not so well before 1978)
Palmer
Rausan Segla
Giscours
Brane Cantenac
Cantemerle
Lascombes
Prieure Lichine

Chris Bublitz

[Ingaux]

What about Lascombes?
Thank you winona

[Winona Chief]

I drank probably 15 bottles of 1970 Lascombes. The first time I had it (about 1978) it was the best wine I had ever had up until that point. As the decades went by Palmer became my go to Margaux wine with Giscours and Rausan Segla moving up. Chateau Margaux moved to the top with all the fine stuff they produced 1978-1983 and there after.

Chris Bublitz

[Nicklasss]

I brought once a 1970 Lascombes, for blind tasting before a BWE convention dinner (it was in DC, but which year?). I thought it was excellent.

[Claudius2]

Guys
My view on Margaux is that there has been tremendous improvement in recent decades at many Chateaux though a few are becoming a bit too commercial. The tastings I’ve done recently showed that the Margaux wines were very good with no failures. Giscours was the winner of the second tasting and I’ve found that in the last few decades it has moved ahead.

I’m a bit out of date on a few wines particularly Palmer. However I’ll put it second on reputation and Rausan Segla is third. Margaux is one of the best wines in the world so it is an obvious first place.

So the top flight is:
Margaux
Palmer
Raysan Segla.

From here it is a bit harder and the ranking is affected by the vintages you have had and the endless other factors involved.

So my views of some of the wines from Margaux are a bit rusty such as Brane Cantenac, Lascombes and Rausan Gassies. Others will rate them higher than me due to more recent experience.

So in order I’ve ranked them in groups. The second flight includes in NO particular order:

Giscours
Malescot St Exupery
D’Issan
Dufort Viviens.

Next group:

Brane Cantenac
Prieure Lichine
Cantenac Brown.

Next group:
Lascombes (never really been a fan)
Du Tertre
Cantenac Brown (mixed experiences)
MarquiscD’Alesme (some progress recently despite uneven history)

Next:
Labegorce (an over achieving CB)
Rausan Gassies
Marquis du Terme.

Never tried BAMA and don’t include the Haut Medocs.

Checking my storage manifest, the wines from this Apellation I have the most of are Giscours, Prieure Lichine, and then Dufort Viviens. Also a few vintages of D’Issan, Du Tertre, Labegorce, Marquis D’Alesme, Cantenac Brown and Malescot. Only a few odd bottles of Rausan Segla, Lascombes and none of Palmer or Margaux worse luck. Also have numerous vintages of La Lagune and one of Cantemerle (2005) for good measure.

Cheers
Mark

[Ognik]

Margaux appellation was a minefield for several decades. There were few constants.
For over 30 yrs now Chateau Margaux perfoms on top level again.
Palmer is a class of its own.
Lot of improvement in many chateau can be seen today.
The second crus Rauzan Segla, Brane Cantenac, Durfort Vivens and third cru Giscours are on par with their classification now.
Marquis d Alesme, Malescot (love the 1990), Cantenac Brown and Lascombes (good 83) are close behind.
Have a soft spot for Ferriere and the more international styled Labegorce. Pity that Labegorce Zede is gone (btw great 89 and 90).
Tour de Mons can do better, Siran made a good 2015 in my book.
No idea about Rauzan Gassis.
Few experience with BAMA, but 2000 and 01 were excellent in an ancient style wich i love.

[ericp]

Rauzan Gassis - geez haven't even thought of that wine in 15 yrs since committing infanticide on a case of the 2000 when they actually made a good wine. Wonder if they're performing any better these days.

[Claudius2]

Eric
Izak (Great Bordeaux Wines) has commented that RG is making better wines these days. Try checking his own website as he provides detailed notes. Bordoverview is also worth checking as it summarises ratings and EU pricing.

I have tried the 2000 at the cellar door when very young and the 2005 at a tasting in Australia before I moved to Singapore. I didn’t find either to be impressive compared to other Margaux wines but both seemed reliable and better than the handful of older vintages I’ve tried.

Cheers
Mark