Personal ranking of Pauillac fifth growths

[AlexR]

Picking up on Ian’s initiative, I thought it might be good to discuss the fifth growths of Pauillac, of which there are twelve. Some of these are not very well-known.

Here’s my ranking with a few comments:

Lynch Bages
Pontet Canet
Grand Puy Lacoste
Clerc Milon
d’Armailhacq
Haut Batailley (this needs to prove itself since the recent Cazes takeover, but I have little doubt that it will be a more exciting wine in the future).
Batailley
Haut Bages Libéral
Pédesclaux (a wine that is definitely coming up in the world).
Lynch Moussas
Grand Puy Ducasse
Croizet Bages


Best regards,
Alex R.

[jckba]

I like and wholeheartedly agree with your ranking of the Pauillac 5th growths.

[Comte Flaneur]

Hi Alex my ranking - very similar to yours - with comments

1. Lynch Bages - comfortable winner - super-second quality over time but I concede it can be variable across and within vintages
2. Pontet Canet - second growth quality still with some lingering question marks - does not perform well in blind tastings - but can be thrilling too
3. Grand Puy Lacoste - snags third spot on the basis of the trio of great wines in the mid-90s (94/5/6) and on great form since 2014, 2016 sensational
4. Clerc Milon - you get the feeling that if this estate just stepped up a bit more it could be really brilliant, look where it is situated…
5. d’Armailhac - like the Clerc Milon I have a soft spot for this wine which used to be Mouton Baronne Philippe - currently enjoying some 1986s
6. Haut Batailley - I have found this to be very trad Pauillac - similar to Batailley but with a little bit more class - could improve under Cazes
7. Batailley - good honest Pauillac,it can be austere and rustic and can be very good, but I don’t love it as much as some of my Brit friends do
8. Grand Puy Ducasse - I have enjoyed some pleasant bottles of this like the 2004 -
9. Haut Bages Libéral - historically almost painfully traditional, but seems to be making a comeback under Claire Villars-Lurton, one to watch?

These other three I don’t know well enough to comment on any recent encounters. Less recent encounters with the latter two have been underwhelming.
Cannot remember trying Pedesclaux but Alex tells me there is a lot of investment going into this estate.

NR:
Pédesclaux
Lynch Moussas
Croizet Bages

[JoelD]

Hard to argue either of your lists and they are almost the same. The only wines I might switch are Clerc Milon up to 3 and GPL to 4. But they're close for sure. I'm not as high on Pontet as some others in this forum are, but I'd still struggle to move any of those other wines above. Lynch Bages is clearly the king of the Fifth growths to me.

[Ognik]

Tough call.

Lynch Bages clear in front. Legend since early 80s.
19 vintage edges premier quality.
Pontet Canet is hot since mid 90s, but atypical and controversial styled since 2009. Big questionmark on that. No preference.
Grand Puy Lacoste offers value since late 80s, esp. in so called small vintages. 95, 96, 10 and 16 are 2. cru quality. Soft spot.
Batailley is a pqr winner in almost every manner. Classic Pauillac. Shame on you if you did not buy 95, 96, 16 and 19. Soft spot.
Haut Batailley. Softer style of Pauillac but great performance in 96, 10, 14 and 16. New owners.
One to watch.
Clerc Milon and d' Armailhac. Love it or leave it. Somewhat boring. Liked 09 and 10 Clerc but no real emotional link. Two for newbies.
Haut Bages Liberal perfoms excellent entry level without chi chi. Good value and quality.
Is there anyone coming behind?
Don' t think so.
P.S.
Did buy Lynch Moussas in 19. But that's a different story.....

[ericp]

Definitely a tough one, I'm closer to Ognik on Clerc/d'armailhac
1. Pontet Canet – they’ve been making arguably 1st growth wine for the last 15 yrs, I think edges out LB.
2. Lynch Bages – one of my favs
3. Grand Puy Lacoste
4. Haut Batailley – perhaps a bit controversial, but a long time fav of mine and pricing vs Clerc its no contest imo
5. Batailley – in very good years definitely a buy.
6. Clerc Milon – lost interest a while ago due to lack of QPR
7. d’Armailhac
8. Haut Bages Libéral
9. Grand Puy Ducasse
10. Pédesclaux
11. Lynch Moussas
12. Croizet Bages

[DavidG]

Without considering cost:
1. Lynch Bages
2. Pontet Canet
3. Clerc Milon
4. d’Armailhac
5. Grand Puy Lacoste

Might reshuffle depending on time frame.

Ranking the others would be random.

It would be interesting to see if my opinions have changed much since Ian’s last major ranking effort “The Aquitaine Papers.”

[Chateau Vin]

Hard to argue either of your lists and they are almost the same. The only wines I might switch are Clerc Milon up to 3 and GPL to 4. But they're close for sure. I'm not as high on Pontet as some others in this forum are, but I'd still struggle to move any of those other wines above. Lynch Bages is clearly the king of the Fifth growths to me.

That’s what I had in my mind, Joel— clerc milon just ahead of GPL these days... but could hardly argue against what others have put together...

[Claudius2]

Guys
I’ve never been a lover of Pontet Canet though recent experiences with 2010 and 2019 make we wonder if it is the equal at least of Lynch Bages. In the vintages LB does well in, it is the best 5th and has been a pretty good wine for some decades.

These two are in 2022 he best of the Appellation and I’d rate them equally on recent form but LB historically.

It gets harder from here. GPL has been reliable for some decades even if it does get some criticism here. So I’ll agree with third.

I’m struggling with any rational approach from here. I like Batailley and Haut Bateilley more than some others and they have been reliable for some decades. I have less experience with Clerc Milon and D’Armhaillac though I’d rate them on par with the Batailley pair.

Next to me is HBL and it over achieves in some vintages including 2005 - that vintage changed my view of it and more recent vintages have been pretty good. I’d rate it above GPD and the others and I bought a case of it EP from 2019.

Croizet Bages and Lynch Moussas are no more than CB level. Had the 2009 Croizet a year or two ago and is was simple and pleasant but not classed growth level. Not tried Pedescaux for a few decades and it came across as rather old fashioned though no recent experience.

Somehow I just don’t buy many Pauillac wines anymore. Since the 2005 vintage I’ve bought very few of them yet a lot of St Juliens, Margaux and St Emilions. When back in Australia, I had quite a lot of Pichon Lalande in particular though the only PL I have now is the 2005. Stopped buying the first growths after the 2002 EP.

Cheers
Mark