St.Emilion's new classification has been published...

[greatbxfreak]

New PGCC A - Figeac

Corbin Michotte now GCC - to say as Arnold the Terminator - I'm back!! Deservedly so imho.

Some surprises in GCC for me.

[AlexR]

Full classification here.

https://www.sudouest.fr/vin/vins-de-bor ... 202607.php

Let the comments roll!

Alex R

[Musigny 151]

I am delighted for Figeac, as it has been a constant objective, but I still remain dubious as to whether it is meaningful in any way apart from that one class.

[greatbxfreak]

Imho, it's huge mistake that Corbin hasn't been upgraded to PGCC. It's soil is as good as Cheval Blanc's, consistency is perfect and Corbin's wines are a lot better than 90% of GCCs!!

[Musigny 151]

I am with you that it should have been promoted, but curious as to it being as good as Cheval Blanc’s terroir. They are located a couple of kilometers apart, Cheval has three distinct soils, and a very different grape percentages.
I love Corbin wines, and Annabelle is a great winemaker, and she extracts everything she can from the vineyard, but has never made a wine that has come close to 100 points.

I think it’s a serious stretch to say the terroir is Cheval’s equal, both in terms of type and above all quality.

[AKR]

Full classification here.

https://www.sudouest.fr/vin/vins-de-bor ... 202607.php

Let the comments roll!

Alex R

I don't understand how Trottevielle keeps its PGCC status, and this is coming from a person who buys it every now and then.

[greatbxfreak]

Musigny 151,

I didn't imply that Corbin has the same quality as Cheval Blanc. I've just said that the composition of the soil was the same. Some geologists have researched that and confirmed the similarities.

Corbin is only 2 km from Cheval Blanc. 90% Merlot and 10% C. Franc. Cheval Blanc is 60% Merlot and 34% C. Franc and 6% C. Sauvignon.

You say that Corbin never got 100 p rating. What about Trottevieille and Pavie Macquin? I am puzzled by the omission of Corbin! I expected the promotion for all the work Anabelle has done since 1998 and her innovative vinification in recent vintages.

Imho, Fleur Cardinale should have been promoted at the expense of f.i. La Croizille and Tour Baladoz.

[Musigny 151]

From my understanding, Cheval has three different soils, so while one of them may have similarities to Cheval, there are two that don’t. Please don’t think I am implying that Annabel is not a superb winemaker; she is. And I wish the family had managed to hold on to the better holdings of Certan Guiraud (Hosanna) because she would have elevated that property too. I was confused when you said the soil was “as good as Cheval”.

I am not getting into Fleur Cardinale. For my palate, it is well made, but utterly anonymous. What is the point of having a Saint Emilion classification if the wine has nothing there to suggest it comes from Saint Emilion. Actually, what is the point of having a classification at all?

[greatbxfreak]

I know Anabelle wanted to buy Certan Giraud when it was for sale but ended with Corbin instead.

She and her cousin made the wine at Certan Giraud until the sale.

I had last year a beautiful bottle of Certan Marzelle 1982 (precisely the same as Certan Giraud but sold a negociant exclusivity).

[Chateau Vin]

For me, St Emilion Classification is a moot point with all the bickering and selection riddled with conflicts of interest....Maybe they should go Pomerol way without any classification...

[Comte Flaneur]

I started loading up on several cases of Figeac a couple of years ago - mainly 2016s - as I saw it essentially as a free option. This was no big surprise but the only other first growth is Pavie...the others have left the room…Figeac is up by something like a third price wise in the last year and I can see it trading on a broad par with those vulgar interlopers Pavie and Angelus, but I suspect Ausone and Cheval Blanc, which are no longer participating, will continue to trade in a league of their own. Angelus also withdrew from the classification, making this estate even more of a shameless interloper imo. But I heard the more modern Angelus wines are less tarted up now the daughter has taken over. But the problem with Angelus is that the point of tarting up the wines was to disguise the undistinguished terroir. Apart from Canon, two estates to watch now are Belair-Monange and Troplong Mondot, both possessing great terroir, and both making fabulous wine. Christian and Edouard Moueix did not push for B-M to be upgraded this time because it is still a work in progress. I don’t think Corbin should be upgraded based on the disappointing bottle Alex, Patrick and I drank when we visited St-Emilion last October. It was inexpensive but tasted like a Cru Bourgeois equivalent.

[greatbxfreak]

Ian,

You should have mentioned Beausejour Duffau, the neighbour next door to Canon, who certainly deserves its place in the hierarchy.

Which vintage of Corbin did you taste last October? Her 2016, 8, 9 and 00 are excellent.

No one of Jonathan Malthus wines was promoted to GCC.

[Musigny 151]

I started loading up on several cases of Figeac a couple of years ago - mainly 2016s - as I saw it essentially as a free option. This was no big surprise but the only other first growth is Pavie...the others have left the room…Figeac is up by something like a third price wise in the last year and I can see it trading on a broad par with those vulgar interlopers Pavie and Angelus, but I suspect Ausone and Cheval Blanc, which are no longer participating, will continue to trade in a league of their own. Angelus also withdrew from the classification, making this estate even more of a shameless interloper imo. But I heard the more modern Angelus wines are less tarted up now the daughter has taken over. But the problem with Angelus is that the point of tarting up the wines was to disguise the undistinguished terroir. Apart from Canon, two estates to watch now are Belair-Monange and Troplong Mondot, both possessing great terroir, and both making fabulous wine. Christian and Edouard Moueix did not push for B-M to be upgraded this time because it is still a work in progress. I don’t think Corbin should be upgraded based on the disappointing bottle Alex, Patrick and I drank when we visited St-Emilion last October. It was inexpensive but tasted like a Cru Bourgeois equivalent.

Pretty close to where I am, except for Corbin. I had the 2006?recently, a real sleeper in her lineup at a vertical she put on, and it was lovely.

I will say it was a brilliant move for the Bouards to get out of the classification. They became just another A along with Cheval and Ausone that don’t believe in it. Genius!

I also loaded up on 2016 Figeac, and for some reason bought a lot of magnums.

[marcs]

I also recently got some 2016 Figeac. For a price I ended up feeling was excessive ($229/bottle), but I kind of lost control.

Classifications aside, how do you guys like what’s in the bottle in 2016? Robert is constantly trashing them for having Rolland as a consultant, although they have not changed ownership or winemaking team otherwise.

[greatbxfreak]

Ian,

I can't get it you trashing Corbin every time somebody mentions it??

Musigny 151 - are you talking about Corbin 2006? It's the first year of cooperation with oenologist Jean-Michel Fort from Rollands. 2020 vintage was without consulting an oenologist. Btw, she's a fully qualified oenologist herself.

[AKR]

Whoa - rewind for a second.

What years was Annabelle Cruse in charge of the vinification of Certan Giraud?

I had never known about that, or the relationship.

[Musigny 151]

Ian,

I can't get it you trashing Corbin every time somebody mentions it??

Musigny 151 - are you talking about Corbin 2006? It's the first year of cooperation with oenologist Jean-Michel Fort from Rollands. 2020 vintage was without consulting an oenologist. Btw, she's a fully qualified oenologist herself.

From what I remember Fort was only advising in the vineyards, and had never anything else. I don’t think he was even involved in the picking date. Did not know she was going alone, but she now has twenty five years plus experience making the wines.

[greatbxfreak]

Musigny 151,

You are correct. Jean-Michel Fort didn't have so much to say for the vindication. But I'm not sure he wasn't helping Anabelle with the picking date.

Actually, she came back to Bordeaux in 1996 from visiting/working at several wineries around the world and after one year's charity work with Mother Theresa. She worked at Certan Giraud, took care of the vineyard and promoted things while her nephew Emmanuel made the wine.

I believe Corbin is a textbook St.Emilion, especially on the great run since 2009 (however, 2005 is a delightful vintage for her). Looking at the other chateaux in the same GCC category after the 2022 classification, you have to wonder why Corbin wasn't promoted, for this property is head and shoulders above at least 90% of these.

Criteria:

For a Premier Grand Cru Classé estate: 50 percent Tasting; 20 percent Profile (promotion/advancement, distribution, valuation); 20 percent Terroirs (land base, homogeneity, quality of terroir); and 10 percent Estate Management (viticulture and winemaking).
For a Grand Cru Classé estate: 50 percent Tasting; 35 percent Profile (promotion/advancement, distribution, valuation); 10 percent Terroirs (land base, homogeneity, quality of terroir); and five percent Estate Management (viticulture and winemaking).

AKR,

I was too quick. She wasn't directly involved in vinification. Her nephew Emmanuel was responsible for it.

[Musigny 151]

The Cruse family is complicated, but I thought Emmanuel was her cousin.

[Claudius2]

Guys
Now that Ausone and Cheval Blanc are not part of the classification, the validity of the entire process seems a bit superfluous.
I don't want to get into an argument about why one wine should/should not be upgraded or dumped, though I did expect La Fleur Cardinale to be upgraded. But we all have different opinions.

I have always like Figeac, and regularly bought it up to the 2008 vintage - though not since as the price here in Singapore is just too high. Similarly, Pavie was a regular buy and I drank lots of wines from the 80's during the 90's and 00's as I could pick them up cheap at auction - like about USD20 for very good vintages such as 83, 85 and 88. The 83 by the way was just as good as 82 if not a slightly less powerful wine.

So I can't really get my head around a classification that now includes Pavie and Figeac as the "best" wines yet does not include the actual best wines. Oh well. In any case Pomerol does well without any classification system at all.

I was however wondering if there is going to be any legal challenges this time?
I mean it would not be St Emilion otherwise.....

cheers
Mark

[Comte Flaneur]

Ian,

I can't get it you trashing Corbin every time somebody mentions it??

Musigny 151 - are you talking about Corbin 2006? It's the first year of cooperation with oenologist Jean-Michel Fort from Rollands. 2020 vintage was without consulting an oenologist. Btw, she's a fully qualified oenologist herself.

Izak: please don’t shoot the messenger. Alex do you remember which vintage of Corbin we drank in the La Dominique restaurant overlooking Cheval Blanc?

[AlexR]

Ian,

I believe it was the 2015.
That wine from that bottle on that day did not show well.
Perhaps it was atypical.

I have visited Corbin several times with Izak.
I quite like the wine and the woman behind it, even if I do not think it should be bumped up to Premier Cru status.

Please, izak, don't take that as a damning statement.

Alex

[marcs]

Anyone have any thoughts on my question as to whether the 2016 Figeac is actually a good wine? Or whether Robert's trashing of recent Figeac as having sold out to the dark side for classification is justified?

[Dionysus]

Anyone have any thoughts on my question as to whether the 2016 Figeac is actually a good wine? Or whether Robert's trashing of recent Figeac as having sold out to the dark side for classification is justified?

Based on a recent blind tasting (https://www.farrvintners.com/blog/post.php?post=1736), yes:

"Figeac was the top château overall, with the 2016 the winner of the entire tasting. The renaissance of this property has produced consistently outstanding results in recent years, and it was impressive to see this borne out in a blind tasting format. From a personal point of view, Figeac was my top wine in three of the eight flights."

So out of all vintages from 2011 to 2018 (inclusive) for Angélus, Ausone, Cheval Blanc, Figeac and Pavie, and Quintus, Figeac 2016 was the overall winner of the tasting. In anyone's language, that's an impressive showing. Haven't personally tasted it myself but have some in the cellar.

[marcs]

Anyone have any thoughts on my question as to whether the 2016 Figeac is actually a good wine? Or whether Robert's trashing of recent Figeac as having sold out to the dark side for classification is justified?

Based on a recent blind tasting (https://www.farrvintners.com/blog/post.php?post=1736), yes:

"Figeac was the top château overall, with the 2016 the winner of the entire tasting. The renaissance of this property has produced consistently outstanding results in recent years, and it was impressive to see this borne out in a blind tasting format. From a personal point of view, Figeac was my top wine in three of the eight flights."

So out of all vintages from 2011 to 2018 (inclusive) for Angélus, Ausone, Cheval Blanc, Figeac and Pavie, and Quintus, Figeac 2016 was the overall winner of the tasting. In anyone's language, that's an impressive showing. Haven't personally tasted it myself but have some in the cellar.

OK this makes me happy

Also saw this from Neal Martin re the accusation that Figeac has become Rolland-ized:

"It is almost comical that naysayers decried that Michel Rolland would turn Figeac into some kind of fruit bomb."

[AKR]

Thanks for the color on Certan Giraud and A-C.

[Comte Flaneur]

Ian,

I believe it was the 2015.
That wine from that bottle on that day did not show well.
Perhaps it was atypical.

I have visited Corbin several times with Izak.
I quite like the wine and the woman behind it, even if I do not think it should be bumped up to Premier Cru status.

Please, izak, don't take that as a damning statement.

Alex

I just found the photo of Patrick drinking it…it was indeed the 2015

[Comte Flaneur]

Anyone have any thoughts on my question as to whether the 2016 Figeac is actually a good wine? Or whether Robert's trashing of recent Figeac as having sold out to the dark side for classification is justified?

Based on a recent blind tasting (https://www.farrvintners.com/blog/post.php?post=1736), yes:

"Figeac was the top château overall, with the 2016 the winner of the entire tasting. The renaissance of this property has produced consistently outstanding results in recent years, and it was impressive to see this borne out in a blind tasting format. From a personal point of view, Figeac was my top wine in three of the eight flights."

So out of all vintages from 2011 to 2018 (inclusive) for Angélus, Ausone, Cheval Blanc, Figeac and Pavie, and Quintus, Figeac 2016 was the overall winner of the tasting. In anyone's language, that's an impressive showing. Haven't personally tasted it myself but have some in the cellar.

Quintus like Haut Brion and LMHB has ridiculously high alcohol which is a sure fire way of standing out in blind tastings. Call me cynical, call me old fashioned? Guilty padre.

[greatbxfreak]

Musigny 151,

I think it was Emmanuel Giraud and not Cruse who worked with Anabelle Cruse at Certan Giraud. So he probably is Anabelle's nephew, but it's difficult to be 100% sure. Corbin passed through generations on the female side.

Giraud family purchased Corbin in 1924. I have been lucky to taste 1945, 1955, 1959 and 1964, and I noticed the taste of soil, which appears in modern days Corbin.

Alex,

So you mean that Trottevieille is better than Corbin?

2015 Corbin was splendid in April 2019 when I tasted it.

marcs,

I've had /hate/love relationship with Figeac. The old vintages up to 1975 have been beautiful, then the quality slipped, and it didn't get better under then manager Luc d'Aramon. After the shake-up in 2013, Figeac was back on the track, for me, since 2016 vintage.

[AlexR]

Izak,

The fact that I don't think Corbin quite deserves to be bumped up to "A" category doesn't mean that I believe Trottevieille is entitled to be there...
Do you know if Annabelle tried to be an "A"?

Corbin is great value for money that's for sure.

Alex

[DavidG]

Anyone have any thoughts on my question as to whether the 2016 Figeac is actually a good wine? Or whether Robert's trashing of recent Figeac as having sold out to the dark side for classification is justified?

Based on a recent blind tasting (https://www.farrvintners.com/blog/post.php?post=1736), yes:

"Figeac was the top château overall, with the 2016 the winner of the entire tasting. The renaissance of this property has produced consistently outstanding results in recent years, and it was impressive to see this borne out in a blind tasting format. From a personal point of view, Figeac was my top wine in three of the eight flights."

So out of all vintages from 2011 to 2018 (inclusive) for Angélus, Ausone, Cheval Blanc, Figeac and Pavie, and Quintus, Figeac 2016 was the overall winner of the tasting. In anyone's language, that's an impressive showing. Haven't personally tasted it myself but have some in the cellar.

OK this makes me happy

Also saw this from Neal Martin re the accusation that Figeac has become Rolland-ized:

"It is almost comical that naysayers decried that Michel Rolland would turn Figeac into some kind of fruit bomb."

From all I’ve read, 2016 Figeac is ripe, lush, glossy and modern compared to the wines made in the ‘80s. Not to the extent of an Angelus or Pavie, but probably too much for a palate like Robert’s. Then again, he considers fruit a flaw.

I placed a bet with a small purchase that it was not overdone and that it would age well, at least for my palate. Marcus, from drinking with you and reading your notes, I think where we draw the line at over-ripe and too modern is similar. I bet you’ll be happy with this. And $229 is not that a high price.

[Musigny 151]

It’s on the cusp. Figured if I didn’t like the way it aged, there would be many who would. I get extreme ripeness, but no hint of overripeness, so I am keeping fingers crossed.

[Jeff Leve]

Anyone have any thoughts on my question as to whether the 2016 Figeac is actually a good wine? Or whether Robert's trashing of recent Figeac as having sold out to the dark side for classification is justified?

Hey Everyone!

2016 Figeac is one of the wines of the vintage! It is an extraordinary wine of character and quality. https://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/bo ... on/figeac/

I was at the blind tasting of Quintus referenced earlier and 2016 Figeac ran the table from the majority of tasters in the room, those that share my tastes and those that didn't.

[marcs]

Wow, “extreme ripeness” and “on the cusp” for a 2016 Figeac…eager to taste this now just out of curiosity. The reviews lauded “precision”, minerality, freshness and avoided the usual euphemisms for sloppy-sweet so we’ll see. Of course anything is super ripe compared to some of those old Figeac. Still, I was converted to how the old ones age by my experience with the 1995 at last years BWE DC - I basically spent the whole evening just sitting with it LOL

[marcs]

Anyone have any thoughts on my question as to whether the 2016 Figeac is actually a good wine? Or whether Robert's trashing of recent Figeac as having sold out to the dark side for classification is justified?

Hey Everyone!

2016 Figeac is one of the wines of the vintage! It is an extraordinary wine of character and quality. https://www.thewinecellarinsider.com/bo ... on/figeac/

I was at the blind tasting of Quintus referenced earlier and 2016 Figeac ran the table from the majority of tasters in the room, those that share my tastes and those that didn't.

Thanks Jeff for chiming in, good to hear! My response was to Musigny above you

[AlexR]

Here are some thoughts I've just put on my blog:

Recap: wine châteaux in the Médoc and Sauternes regions were classified in 1855, and those in the Graves (even though all in the Pessac-Léognan appellation, estates there remain “Crus Classés de Graves”) in 1953. Saint-Emilion introduced a new type classification in 1955 that broke with tradition in that it was decided from the very outset that it would be revised and updated every ten years.

Well, the road to hell is paved with good intentions… In theory, this seemed like a wonderful idea, with newcomers able to climb the ladder and underachievers removed – as opposed to the other classifications set in stone. However, each new revision turned out to be a wrenching experience with long, drawn-out court cases and all sorts of ups and downs. This did a great disservice to the image of Saint-Emilion and its finest wines. The controversies reached a paroxysm in 2022 when three of the four Premiers Grands Crus Classés A (Ausone, Cheval Blanc, and Angélus) decided to withdraw altogether. There now remain only two in the uppermost tier: Pavie and Figeac – which finally, and deservedly, made it to the tip of the pyramid.

It had unfortunately got to a point where the Saint Emilion classification was openly derided and the situation became very unhealthy, with the criteria and functioning of the whole process heavily criticised (for instance, tasting accounts for only 50% of the final score, terroir just 10%, etc.). The waters are further muddied by the huge confusion that exists in the average consumer’s mind between Grand Cru and Grand Cru Classé. For most people, these terms mean the same thing which, of course, they do not… In other words, the legal appellation for a classified growth is Saint Emilion Grand Cru, exactly the same as for an inexpensive unclassified wine.

And yet… After a great deal of turbulence, the classification has survived, warts and all, and châteaux still strive to belong to it. The amount of paperwork involved with applying is mind boggling, a bureaucratic nightmare that is nevertheless well worth it to those estates fortunate enough to be accepted. In other words, being classified still means something. In practice, it carries greater financial weight in terms of an estate’s land value rather than the market price of its wine.

The Premier Grand Cru Classé category (A + B) now amounts to 14 estates, compared to 18 in 2012 . There are 71 Grands Crus Classés this year, as opposed to 64 in the previous classification. This represents a 10% increase, but is still fewer than the 75 châteaux in the original classification. .Overall, approximately half of candidates for the 2022 classification were not admitted. No estate included in the 2012 classification was demoted.
Those newly admitted GCC include Château Badette, Clos Badon-Thunevin , Château Boutisse, Château La Confession, Château Croix de Labrie, Château Le Croizille, Clos Dubreuil, Château Lassegue, Château Mangot, Château Montlabert, Château Montlisse, Château Rol Valentin, Clos Saint-Julien, Château Tour Baladoz, and Château Tour Saint Christophe. Happily, one château, Château Corbin Michotte, that had been downgraded, was reintegrated.

I am either little or totally unacquainted with several of these wines, and the new classification makes me want to get to know them better.

In a way that leaves Burgundians speechless, estates in Saint Emilion with different statuses have merged while retaining that which is most advantageous. Could you imagine a Grand Cru in the Côte de Nuits annexing a Premier Cru and rebaptizing it Grand Cru? Anyway, Pavie has absorbed Pavie-Decesse, Clos Fourtet annexed Les Grandes Murailles, etc.

Is the classification system in Saint Emilion back on track? In my opinion, it will never be fully so if the leading estates do not belong. However, none of the wrangling, recrimination, and litigation that were so much a part of the previous two classifications has surfaced so far. Perhaps this is due to the fact that no château included in the 2012 classification was rejected in 2022.

Alex R.
www.bordeauxwineblog.com

[Musigny 151]

I thought that Beasejour Becot was downgraded in the nineties for doing exactly that: incorporating vineyards without permission. It is mixed in my mind with the founding of La Gomerie, so I am not sure of the details.

Either way, the classification strikes me as a case of local masturbation and self abuse.

[AlexR]

Mark,

You are dead right about Beau Séjour Bécot. They owned a vineyard called La Carte, which they incorporated into Beau Séjour and so lost the latter's classification.
However, I think this was mostly due to not going through all the administrative hoops and not sucking up to the powers-that-be rather than the wholesale refusal, on principle, of a cru classé annexing land of an inferior rank.

AR

[jal]

In a way that leaves Burgundians speechless, estates in Saint Emilion with different statuses have merged while retaining that which is most advantageous. Could you imagine a Grand Cru in the Côte de Nuits annexing a Premier Cru and rebaptizing it Grand Cru? Anyway, Pavie has absorbed Pavie-Decesse, Clos Fourtet annexed Les Grandes Murailles, Cheval Blanc added Quinault l’Enclos, etc.

Ridiculous! Don't talk to me about St Emilion terroir anymore.

[greatbxfreak]

There are different criteria for Bordeaux and Burgundy concerning the incorporation of other vineyards.

They are allowed in Bordeaux to include vineyards of the same Cru status.

I think there's a significant quality difference between some GCCs.