Will you join me in drinking to oblivion as American democracy ends on Tuesday night.

[JimHow]

Well done, JC, it is folks like you guys in Michigan and elsewhere that are saving the country, one citizen at a time.
The Evers victory in Wisconsin will be our bulwark against the crazies in that Florida of the north.

[Jay Winton]

As my wife said to a friend who works at an organization called Galvanize Action (look them up), we are doing a happy dance here in Michigan. Not only did Dem incumbents win all the major state races, but they now control both houses of the legislature - for the first time since the mid-1980s. Credit for that is being given largely to the non-partisan commission responsible for drawing up the legislative districts. It's the first time the commission has done that since being created, the result of a proposal that voters passed in 2018.

Your governor is a dark horse presidential candidate for sure if Biden doesn't run. I don't think it's a certainty he will.

[JimHow]

I really like her. She is fearless.

[barsacpinci]

Our district in MD, which includes a very liberal Democratic Montgomery County as well as western Maryland (Republicans) looks like it is still in a tight race between Neil Parrott and David Trone with Parrott leading. Trone's ads said Parrott wanted to tattoo people with AIDS. Not sure if that was true. Even though I'm a Democrat, I've never cared for the man who owns Total Wine! My niece worked there and she told me about how terribly they treat their staff. Our state is quite fickle. For being majority Democrat we've had a Republican Governor for a long time (we love Hogan). We now have Wes Moore (D), who won against COX (R) a QANon believer because the DNC helped fund his Republican challenger (Schulz) who I might have voted for. And we still are stuck with Andy Harris (R) from the Eastern Shore.

[AKR]

This loss is really on Donald Trump, let's see if the Republicans can wean themselves from their Maga addiction. If they don't, any Democrat will beat Trump in 2024.

Todays WSJ Opinion page had 4-6 pieces denouncing Trump in various forms/angles coming from Mitt Romney, Karl Rove, Ron Johnson, Dan Henninger, and of course 'The Editorial Board'. It was the full broadside from the business broadsheet.

[Blanquito]

To answer Alex, I believe that most Americans (and probably most BWE'ers) identify ideologically more with the core message of the Democratic Party. I know I do:
Pro Choice (in a logical way, abortion readily available to every woman in the first 16 weeks of pregnancy, and on an exceptional basis afterwards)
Free (or at least affordable) Healthcare
Gun Control (to a logical extent: ban on assault rifles, automatic weapons, rigorous background checks)
An affordable college education
Fairer taxation
Environmental protection and an energy policy designed to mitigate or at least slow the effects of climate change
A liberal immigration policy

Shit, I’d vote for this guy! Run, Jacques, run!

[JimHow]

Yeah but he has this weird fetish for Ron Desantis.
It's strange, because the Gov opposes him on every point.

[JimHow]

Todays WSJ Opinion page had 4-6 pieces denouncing Trump in various forms/angles coming from Mitt Romney, Karl Rove, Ron Johnson, Dan Henninger, and of course 'The Editorial Board'. It was the full broadside from the business broadsheet.

I let my WSJ subscription expire this year after decades because a) it has gotten too expensive, and b) I was just getting tired of the Trumpian lies and excuses.

It is days like today that I wish I still had it.

[JimHow]

What is Hogan going to do now, BP?

[barsacpinci]

What is Hogan going to do now, BP?

Not sure. They keep hinting at a presidential run. But, I’m not sure he has enough name recognition and he’s not liked by the MAGA sycophants.

[JimHow]

He seems like he would be a good Veep candidate, BP.
Let me put on my Republican hat for a minute.
If I were a commonsense, not crazy Republican like Jacques's guy RonnieD, who would I want on the ticket....

Hmmmm I need to think about this....

[JimHow]

How about....

Pence-Hogan '24

Don't get me wrong, the lead of the ticket would make me puke, but the question is:
Who in the Republican elite other than Orange Head and Jacques's guy RonnieD could you envision winning a nationwide mandate?

[JimHow]

Timmy McCracken, the most liberal BWEer on this site, by the way, thinks Mike Pence is the cat's meow.

[barsacpinci]

Maybe Kasich or Jeb will try again. I think it would be a hoot if Liz Cheney got into the race, I like her! But the MAGAs hate her more than Pence.

[jal]

My guy RonnieD
I would take deSantis over Trump in a heartbeat.
I do think he has the charisma and personality of a sock
I thought he did ok during the pandemic especially compared to Cuomo/deBlasio and Gavin Newsome.
Ideologically we're very very far apart. Pragmatically, I can live with him. Ideally, I'd move to Colorado to hang out with Patrick and Tom, i like Bennett and liked Hickenlooper. Though it seems the whole state is going to be high on shrooms after that last initiative.

[DavidG]

I don’t share Jacques’ enthusiasm for RonnieD. I’d still vote for him (Jacques) though.

http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visuali ... normalized

Some factors here are beyond government control. And deaths are only 1 measure of impact. But DeathSentence’s anti-vax leaning rhetoric and policy were unconscionable.

Would I take him over Trump? I suppose. But I’d take a bag of flaming dog poo over Trump. With Florida almost certainly going for him, DeSantis could very well be our next President.

[AKR]

DavidG - that graph is only measuring one category of deaths, and ignoring all the other attendant costs of lockdowns, such as long term educational / learning loss in young people. Local voters gave DeSantis his first mandate by some 100k, and when re-elected, after seeing his policy choices, gave him a 1.5mm edge. So presumably those who are eating his cooking, seem to be satisfied.
========
I actually had a conservative friend call me up twice in the last two years, after meeting De Santis, telling me he is the Real Deal, and that I should get onboard. This is someone who I really had not stayed in close contact with for a decade plus, so it was an unusual call, and they had no ask/request/need to reach out.

The governor reminds me of a young, sharp elbowed Nixon who keeps notecards and enemies lists.

[Musigny 151]

De Santis is only acceptable because Trump is anathema.
I can’t get over some of his more right wing stances, but the Disney debacle was truly pathetic costing each and every one of its citizens $150 apiece, and all because he had a temper tantrum.

[Blanquito]

There are several Republicans I'd be (comparatively) glad to see elected (even if I couldn't bring myself to actually vote for them, John McCain being a prime example)... the problem is Republicans don't seem to consider these "acceptable" Republicans anymore.

[DavidG]

DavidG - that graph is only measuring one category of deaths, and ignoring all the other attendant costs of lockdowns, such as long term educational / learning loss in young people. Local voters gave DeSantis his first mandate by some 100k, and when re-elected, after seeing his policy choices, gave him a 1.5mm edge. So presumably those who are eating his cooking, seem to be satisfied.
========
I actually had a conservative friend call me up twice in the last two years, after meeting De Santis, telling me he is the Real Deal, and that I should get onboard. This is someone who I really had not stayed in close contact with for a decade plus, so it was an unusual call, and they had no ask/request/need to reach out.

The governor reminds me of a young, sharp elbowed Nixon who keeps notecards and enemies lists.

Arv, yes deaths are only one measure, albeit an important one and one that’s relatively easy to quantify. DeSantis’ refusal to allow companies to require vaccinations is anathema to me. He is indirectly responsible for more people dying than had to.

Business collapses, supply chain issues, shortages were all going to happen whether there were required shutdowns and mandated masking and vaccinations or not. Impossible to quantify exactly but the exaggerated howling from the far right is about as believable as the grass is blue and the sky is green.

One place where I think we missed the mark and went too far is school closures. There’s a decent chance the learning, psychological, emotional, and developmental negatives outweighed the reduction of spread. Again hard to quantify without bias one way or the other. Maybe we’ll have believable data in 20 years.

Other than COVID, DeSantis’ failure to require inspections, condemnations, etc for oceanfront properties contributed to more property loss and, again, deaths with the latest storms that might have been avoided.

His anti-abortion stand is unacceptable in a country where freedom is valued.

Lots of people do like his cooking. Lots of people eat at McDonalds too. Feels good, tastes good, doesn’t cost much today. But a steady diet isn’t good for you and will cost you in the long run.

I also agree with your comparison to a young Nixon. He’s the real deal, alright, and a scary deal at that, putting power over people.

[JimHow]

I like the Nixon comparison.
To me I would take Trump over this phony.
I've said that about a number of Republican candidates.
At least Trump doesn't try to hide what he truly is... a fascist.

RonnieD must have an awfully small penis, thinking he owns us libs in the northeast by shipping poor and vulnerable women and children to Martha's Vineyard and NYC. What a stud. What a man.

Florida and Texas are the only states in the country, you know, that have problems unique to their geographical location. <rolls eyes>

[Racer Chris]

One thing I like about Connecticut - it's easy to be a progressive, even though I'm surrounded by maga republicans in this little rural suburb.
The Democrat candidate in our state House district has lost for 30 years running. However Dems hold a significant majority statewide, and there are only 13 Republican state Senators out of 40 some.

[JimHow]

We about to unleash a man by the name of Barack Fucking Obama on Georgia in the next three weeks.
With the possible exceptions of JFK and FDR, the best president since Lincoln, in my book.

[Racer Chris]

Dems in my town will be writing letters to Georgia residents, encouraging them to vote.

[JimHow]

We may have AZ by the time the Reno votes come in at 11 eastern tonight, but, hey, let’s pile on these fucking shithead right wing puke balls.

[Blanquito]

We may have AZ by the time the Reno votes come in at 11 eastern tonight, but, hey, let’s pile on these fucking shithead right wing puke balls.

Where’s the thumbs up button?!

[JimHow]

Meant NV, of course, not AZ.
We’re gonna come out of this with 51 senate seats.
Quite incredible, actually. An incredible election, when all is said and done. Just when you’re ready to give up, the American people surprise you. What a country! We punched the bullies in the nose. Bring it on, RonnieD.

[Claret]

We may have AZ by the time the Reno votes come in at 11 eastern tonight, but, hey, let’s pile on these fucking shithead right wing puke balls.

Nevada is not so much about Reno as Vegas/Clark County. More open thinkers there than in the rural redneck/cowboy counties.

As for Reno, we have an influx of Californians to sometimes balance the monster truck Renobillies. Mail votes are still being counted and the results should hopefully be complete tomorrow. Dems are gaining votes in the mail. Not over yet.

[DavidG]

We may have AZ NV by the time the Reno votes come in at 11 eastern tonight, but, hey, let’s pile on these fucking shithead right wing puke balls.

You put that much more elegantly than I could.

[Jay Winton]

and in local news, a demo was elected for the first time as our local state senator-Russ Huxtable. We went to a meet and greet a few months ago and liked what we heard. He's spent a lot of his career working on affordable housing.

[jal]

We may have AZ NV by the time the Reno votes come in at 11 eastern tonight, but, hey, let’s pile on these fucking shithead right wing puke balls.

You put that much more elegantly than I could.

Yes, nothing like civil discourse and polite disagreement to stir up a good conversation, eh Alex?

No wonder each half of this country lives in its own echo chamber.

Let me put it this way, not everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders is one white sheet removed from a Klan rally.

Rather than look at these midterms as rebuke to every Republican, let’s just remember that Fetterman barely won PA, and that Walker still has a chance in GA. The fact that the Dems didn’t win these races easily against really bad candidates doesn’t give me a lot of comfort.

Let’s also remember that Stacy Abrams and Beto lost handily, I see that as a rebuke to the far left wing of the Democratic Party.

And please, your problem with Ron deSantis is Florida permits? Now after fifty years of abuse? Actually, I think he’s doing much better environmentally than any of his predecessors. Multiplying the budget for protection of the Everglades and water resources, also increasing supervision of existing construction and buildings. This against the wishes of county and city officials in Florida. He will not get any credit for that from the media who have criticized him for not doing enough.
Bipartisanship is more evident in Florida than anywhere else I look, Nikky Fried would have been a much better democratic candidate than Charlie Crist, she is also the Florida Commissioner of Agriculture. DeSantis won big not because of the Republican and Independent votes, a whole lot of Democrats voted for him in Florida.
And as far as Disney is concerned, Democrats are happy to raise taxes on every corporation under the sun but heaven forbid they do that against the fake woke profiteers of Disney. And for the record, I am all for keeping gender identity out of the schools before the fourth grade.
By all means, criticize his ideology, anti abortion is a disgrace, sending planes to fly immigrants from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard is at best a cheap stunt and at worst a reprehensible illegal act but be fair enough to recognize some of the positives he brought

Does that qualify as a rant now, David?

[JimHow]

Ha that's very desanctimonous Jacques but that's ok I still would vote for you as Prez.

Was just watching Ronnie's CPAC speech:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktz1mT9vfUE

Yeah, he's a real prince.

But, hey, you have every right to like him, it's a free country. And I shouldn't be begrudging Florida for giving us DeSanctis, we've imposed Sue Collins on all of the country, that's a bigger punishment.

[DavidG]

Let me put it this way, not everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders is one white sheet removed from a Klan rally.

LOL, well put. And deserved.

Let’s also remember that Stacy Abrams and Beto lost handily, I see that as a rebuke to the far left wing of the Democratic Party.

Yes, I’m less jubilant/relieved or whatever the correct term is regarding this election than some here. Not sure whether those losses are more on the far left wing of the Ds or the far right wing of the Rs which, trying (failing?) to be objective seems to have more control over the core of the Republican Party than the far left has over the core of the Ds.

And please, your problem with Ron deSantis is Florida permits? Now after fifty years of abuse?

LOL again. You picked the most trivial of my complaints about him, which I brought up in part because Nicole was recent news and in part to explain that from the important stuff all the way down to the minutiae, I think he sucks.

And as far as Disney is concerned, Democrats are happy to raise taxes on every corporation under the sun but heaven forbid they do that against the fake woke profiteers of Disney. And for the record, I am all for keeping gender identity out of the schools before the fourth grade.

Happy to see taxes raised on Disney too.

By all means, criticize his ideology, anti abortion is a disgrace, sending planes to fly immigrants from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard is at best a cheap stunt and at worst a reprehensible illegal act but be fair enough to recognize some of the positives he brought.

I’m really struggling to see the positives, but will freely admit to paying more attention to the negatives. Happy to listen to your thoughts on what he’s done well. The CPAC speech which Jim linked to is pretty damn scary, and pretty much impossible to pass off as media distortion.

Does that qualify as a rant now, David?

Yes, A+, with extra credit for the woke meme! I can debate as reasonably as anyone, but reserve the right to rant against the election deniers, anti-vaxxers, and flat-earthers that have taken over the Republican Party. Hoping this election is sobering enough to allow the reasonable ones to regain control.

[jal]

I really disagree with a lot of what deSantis stands for David, I just think some credit is due. And ranting is always allowed lol.

[AKR]

I'm totally in favor of shipping folks off to Martha's Vineyard. Let the fatcats like Joe Heitz pay for them!!!

[jal]

I'm totally in favor of shipping folks off to Martha's Vineyard. Let the fatcats like Joe Heitz pay for them!!!

I was talking about the legality of it, Arv. The Florida state budget has a few million dollars allocated to shipping illegal immigrants out of Florida, flying them from Texas was justified because they supposedly intended to go to Florida. Well, guessing intent to me is dubious.

After calling themselves sanctuary states, I am amazed these blue states should even complain though.

Jim and David, I’ll watch the CPAC speech tomorrow. Really tiring day today.

[DavidG]

There’s more than a trivial difference between not helping Feds deport immigrants who want to be in your state and rounding up immigrants and sending them somewhere they never intended to go.

That said, I get that FL and TX are literally along the front lines of the immigration crisis. Just don’t think that using immigrants as political pawns in this way is moral or ethical. Not quite as bad as separating children from their families and failing to keep track of them but it’s yet another malodorous example of putting personal and party power above people. Don’t know if it’s legal but suspect not.

[jal]

There’s more than a trivial difference between not helping Feds deport immigrants who want to be in your state and rounding up immigrants and sending them somewhere they never intended to go.

That said, I get that FL and TX are literally along the front lines of the immigration crisis. Just don’t think that using immigrants as political pawns in this way is moral or ethical. Not quite as bad as separating children from their families and failing to keep track of them but it’s yet another malodorous example of putting personal and party power above people. Don’t know if it’s legal but suspect not.

Agreed on all points

[jal]

I saw the CPAC speech
Please tell me what exactly you found distasteful in that speech. Because except for shipping immigrants to Delaware,DC an Hollywood I'm having trouble seeing any of the damning evidence.

And no, he's not an anti vaxer, he was urging everyone to get vaccinated. I also haven't seen any mention of a flat earth,or of election denial in any of his comments anywhere.

Please give me specific accusations and I'll be happy to agree or disagree.

[JimHow]

Going from memory:
So you are comfortable with his boast of turning the Florida Supreme Court into the most conservative court in the country. Imagine when he gets his hands on SCOTUS and the rest of the federal judiciary for 8 years.
You’re comfortable with the tired old grievances against college professors, the mainstream media, the woke left. I’m surprised you didn’t vote for Orange Head, RonnieD is going to bring you the same divisive Fox News bile.
As a New York transplant, Jacques, I’m surprised it doesn’t bother you he was opposed to hurricane relief for the northeast but happy to accept it for Florida.
And of course, the religiosity… He is a warrior for God. The Christian God, who will fire prosecutors and school board members and tax individual companies if they disagree with him, Putin-like.
He wants to dictate what a woman can do with her uterus, and appoints judges who will help him do it.
I would vote against him because of his abortion stance alone, regardless of his other views.
President Levy is for reasonable gun control but Ronnie wants you no where near the Second Amendment.
I didn’t even think the speech was that good. I was a little taken aback by how lightweight it seemed, I tried to imagine him up on a debate stage against other Republicans, I’m not sure he stands out.
It was the same old tired divisive, angry, right wing vitriol.
Dare I say it: Sanctimonious.
I’m really surprised a centrist like you is attracted to this little man, that you are quick to dismiss his kidnappings of vulnerable “illegal” human beings by mocking places that choose to provide sanctuary for immigrants… Places like your New York City. We accepted about 10,000 Somali immigrants from a war torn country here in little lily white Lewiston, Maine. There were some strains at first by some in the community, but now they have integrated into the community. We didn’t ship them on buses to Tallahassee.
He’s a little bully. If that is what appeals to you in a politician then I’m happy for you. Hickenlooper he is not. The Dems have won the popular vote in 7 of the last 8 presidential elections. We’ll see if this guy’s shtick extends past the panhandle. I predict not. I’m not even completely confident he gets out of the Republican prinary, Orange Head or no Orange Head. Now it’s going to be up to the Democrats to come up with a strong ticket.
Can’t wait for the Trump/DeSantis primary road show, get me some popcorn.