And now for something completely different…underwhelming 82s

[Comte Flaneur]

On Wednesday night we had a dinner showcasing some mid-tier 1982 Bordeaux, a week after our first growth triumph. Five out of nine people at Wednesday’s dinner were there the previous Wednesday, and our expectations were appropriately rowed back.

The line up

Fizz (Roederer 2012)
Magdelaine, La Lagune & Giscours
Duhart, GPL & Ducru Beaucaillou
Calon Segur, Montrose & Sociando Mallet
Guiraud 1989


I was really looking forward to tasting these wines, especially after the good experience we had with this vintage at a dinner in 2019. Of those events the 1982 dinner shines brightest in the collective memory.

On Wednesday, of the eight 1982s we tried three were faulty, or borderline faulty, and the other five were uninspiring, some even dreary. I spoke to Mathieu the sommelier and proprietor afterwards and he said the wines didn’t show at the level he expected. He thought a few bottles were ‘not in great condition.’ The Magdelaine was his wine of the night, the GPL and Montrose he thought were ‘OK’, just a touch reserved, but rest were ‘not there at all.’

I would broadly agree with his assessment. La Lagune 1982, for example, is a wine I have followed over the years. Ten to twenty years ago it was gorgeous. But recent bottles, including this one, have been a bit flat and uninspiring - even a bit dreary. There is still a bit of fruit left and it is pleasant enough, but nothing like it used to be.

I don’t think the Giscours was actually faulty, just not a great wine, though better on the palate than on the entry, which smelt of (fresh) faeces - yes, like a freshly laid turd. Shame about the two Sociandos. The second one had some charm that the others were lacking but went down hill pretty fast and may also have been corked.

Talking of which another corked Ducru from the 1980s. Sigh…The cork taint was supposed to be an issue from 1987-1990, but I think it was actually a problem throughout the 1980s. For example, my hit rate on the 1982 Ducru is less than 50%, which is a disgrace. What is worse is that the Chateau was in denial about the problem, which is criminal. The Ducru was not in fact badly corked, only faintly so, but enough to niggle, and of course the problem did not go away.

The four 1982s which were ‘OK’ were the two Pauillacs and the two Saint-Estephes. But none of them had any charm in my opinion. The Duhart and the GPL were quite similar, with the GPL possessing more red fruit, but both of them were foursquare and clunky. Of the two I preferred the GPL, but this 1982 GPL is nowhere near as good as the 1995, 1996, 2015 and 2016 GPLs.

The Montrose I thought was particularly charmless, but others enjoyed it much more than I did and it was popular around the table, while the Calon, like the La Lagune, was in the twilight zone. But the Calon did grow on me, and of the four ‘OK’ 1982s it was the one I enjoyed the most.

By far and away the stand out wine of the night was ironically the1952 Magdelaine, an unexpected treat. Steve accidentally brought the 52 instead of the 82. If the label had said 1982 nobody would have batted an eyelid. The last bottle of the 1982 I enjoyed just over a year ago with Blanquito was sensational and would have run away with this. The 1952 was a perfectly resolved mature St-Emilion, which grew magnificently in the glass.

Just as we got lucky the previous week we were unlucky on Wednesday. The Magdelaine 1952 was voted the wotn by a decisive margin, followed by the Montrose and the GPL.

[Blanquito]

What a shame, Ian. At least there was the 52 to offer salve!

I’ve had more Beychevelle and La Lagune than any other 82s (by a lot), and while it’s hard to isolate the cause, both of these wines have lost a step or two in the last 7-8 years, especially La Lagune, whereas they were once consistently brilliant. I’m sure absolutely perfect bottles stored at 50F might show differently but my bottles have appeared great with perfect fills, etc. Remember that sensational bottle of the 82 La Lagune we had at Fabio’s circa 2010?

I’ll be at a tasting with some mid-tier 82s soon and I’ll report back.

[JimHow]

Yes in my experience the Ducru taint problem existed a decade before 1988-90.
I’ve loved 1982 Calon Segur. Hey these wines are 40 years old for crying out loud.

[Musigny 151]

Giscours last great vintage from the golden period was 1981. 1982 started the rot, and I have found that although the wines improved starting with mid nineties (1998 was a surprising success) things started looking good with the 2010.

I agree, Ducru taint problems may have started earlier, except I have never had a bad bottle of 1983. My last Montrose 1982 had slipped into tertiary only, but Calon was excellent, a mid 90 point wine.

The most reliable of these super seconds seems to be Gruaud Larose 1982.

[JimHow]

Thanks for clarifying that Musigny151, I was wondering why Giscours seems to have operated in reverse from most Bordeaux, ie, thriving in the 70s and declining in the 80s.

[DavidG]

Ian, after all of those incredibly stellar tastings I suppose some regression towards the mean was bound to occur at some point.

The 1982 La Lagune is surely an example of “no great wines, only great bottles” by age 40. The bottle Stefan brought to FLL almost 3 years ago was hanging in with some of the first growths. It was a spectacular bottle.

Edit: after consulting with Stefan, I realize this can’t be right. Not sure what wine I was thinking of. All La Lagune is putrid swill. Hard to believe it wasn’t poured down the drain.

[stefan]

Unfortunate, Ian, but it is better that your first lineup was great and this one disappointing than the reverse.

I agree with has been said. In particular, 1982 Giscours marked the beginning of Giscours' decline. Up to then it was IMO the third best Margaux.

1982 La Lagune is certainly a problem now. David, it was Jacques who brought it to the dinner in FLL. That specially sourced bottle was much better than others I have drunk in the last 10 or so years. Like all La Lagunes, one should not risk money at auctions on what likely will be swill.

[Blanquito]

I have a pristine-looking magnum of the 82 Beychevelle I’m saving for some BWE gathering. That would be good test I think, if it is fading en magnum all bets would be off.

I do agree about the 82 Gruaud— while fully mature, that wine is still at the peak of its powers.

[ericindc]

I have a pristine-looking magnum of the 82 Beychevelle I’m saving for some BWE gathering. That would be good test I think, if it is fading en magnum all bets would be off.

I do agree about the 82 Gruaud— while fully mature, that wine is still at the peak of its powers.

Well, we just had an '82 Beychevelle on Saturday in a large lineup of '82s. It was fantastic and it was a 750ml. I think Joel said he would post his notes, but it looks like hes slacking. I would post notes, but I gave up halfway through.

[DavidG]

Ah, thanks Stefan for reminding me about the 82 La Lagune Jacques brought to FLL. It was a special bottle.

[jal]

I have two remaining 1982 La Lagune. Saving them for BWE encounters.
I have always disliked the 1982 Grand Puy Lacoste. I kept hearing it must be a bad bottle until I had one with some BWEers at Fabio long ago and I everyone loved it except me.
Come to think of it, I have disliked every GPL I drank, but that is a known fact. Please never invite me to a GPL retrospective.

[Nicklasss]

Enjoying a Camus Borderies VSOP while reading that sad report from the respected taster Comte Flaneur.

I think 1982 are in "The Clash" zone: should i stay or should i go?

[Claudius2]

Guys
The 1982 vintage was unquestionably a great one but realistically not every wine can reasonably last 40 years and remain in stellar condition.

I bought this vintage En Primeur and it was the first time I’d even heard of EP but I never thought of keeping them for four decades or so.

I drank plenty of these wines in the 90s and early 00s and never regretted it. La Lagune 82 and 83 were great young and even Ducru Beaucaillou was wonderful then. I never saw the point of holding them for decades longer when they were so nice. I drank 82 Leoville Barton a few years ago and realized that it was better a few decades ago.

Whilst I’ve not exactly been a lover of RPJnr, I think I’m on the same page when he said that wine is better when consumed on the way to maturity rather than on the downhill.

The argument that there are no great old wines just great old bottles demonstrates the risk of ending up with dead wines.

In the late 90s I went to a big tasting of cru classe Bordeaux including all first growths and while the top wines were still young, they were actually delicious to drink and none was out of condition - accepting the usual frustration of corked bottles.

Similarly the 2010 vintage was considered a long keeping one yet I was surprised how open they are now at recent tastings. Even the 2019s I have tried were remarkably gluggable this year.

Cheers
Mark

[Comte Flaneur]

Mark,
Your visit to Alex has clearly influenced your thinking!
I tend to agree with most of your points.
However: what I would add is that you can get burned on the way up as well on the way down.
For example, how many bottles of, say, 1995 Bordeaux have we opened over the last two decades and regretted doing so?
Hence the aphorism ‘needs/give it another five years’ most attributed to Blanquito.

[Musigny 151]

The other thing to remember is that when 1982 came over, very few people had wine cellars. The new generation of wine collectors certainly did not have them, and I suspect a large percentage of the wines that came to the US spent some years in rooms at the wrong temperature. European sourced wines are a lot less risky.

[Claudius2]

Mark,
Your visit to Alex has clearly influenced your thinking!
I tend to agree with most of your points.
However: what I would add is that you can get burned on the way up as well on the way down.
For example, how many bottles of, say, 1995 Bordeaux have we opened over the last two decades and regretted doing so?
Hence the aphorism ‘needs/give it another five years’ most attributed to Blanquito.

Ian
Interesting that you mention the 1995 vintage - it is the oldest vintage I've got and only have a few bottles in any case.
I was in NYC in Dec 2004 and the theme with several BWE members was 1995 Bordeaux.
Most were not exactly ready but with a few exceptions they were drinkable, particularly the right bank wines.

I tend to buy Bordeaux in straight cases when buying EP. I hardly ever buy retail here as it is too hard to find, expensive and of questionable provenance. If I drink one bottle and realise it is too young, I can leave it in storage and try it again in future. Of course this is an imprecise art as the development is not always predictable nor linear. Yet if I hold the case for too long (which I have done on numerous occasions) I realise that the other 11 bottles (or 5 in some cases) are never going to be any better. Trying the first bottle from a case to find that the wine is on its downslope is a rather frustrating experience.

Further, I would argue that most Bordeaux - with some exceptions of course - is drinkable when young. An example are the 2019s which taste pretty good now. Try doing that to say, 1975 Bordeaux, which I bought quite a lot of in Australia. And as for the more modern styles of wine, notably St Emilions with high alcohol, I really wonder if they will ever make old bones.

Can I add one really important issue.
I've spend my life in Australia and Singapore, and when I started buying fine wine, storage and handling were major issues.
Much of the retail stock, let alone Auction stock, suffered from careless importers and retailers.
So many of the wines that hit the fatal shores were either compromised in transit or in the usual handling processes.
Holding the wines was a risky business.

The issue with Singapore, as I'm sure you understand, is that most locals (expats are less than 1% of the permanent population) have no understanding of wine and if you saw the way it is handled here - from the dock onward - you would also wonder what the wine will be like. The last time I imported Burgundies directly, I literally raced to the shorefront to pick the wine up before it was cooked by the sun. The freight company (Hildebrandt) is supposed to know how to handle it but that clearly did not apply to the handlers at the dock. There were pallet loads of wine literally baking in the sun. If you get the locals to deliver it to you, it will probably be in a completely open lorry such as a small tabletop vehicle which will carry one pallet only. My first attempt to bring some older wines from my Australian storage unit was a disaster. I could not believe that the freight company would be so bold as to chuck the boxes in the back of a tiny open vehicle. Many of the wines were dead and I even considered suing the freight company. Oh well.

I have been buying some back vintages at a Dutch based wine auctioneer called Winefields, and luckily I have had good results as the wines are shipped from Europe and they do pay attention to handling. As for EP buys, I have bought virtually all of them from one importer who seems to care.

cheers
Mark

[Comte Flaneur]

I tend to buy cases too Mark, so I have started on all my 1995s apart from the first growths. That definitely helps get the measure of the vintage.

I think the tannin management makes young vintages much more accessible than they were. And I don’t think it means these wines won’t age. You just get more value out of them and the market prices that.

Many vintages from the teenies decade have been accessible out of the gate. Which is why I think they are generally better wines than say the over-rated hit and miss wines from the 1980s.

[Jay Winton]

Interesting post and thank you Ian. Father Stefan shared an 82 LL at a dinner several years ago. It was in a good place then. I've had the 82 Montrose several times, none of the bottles were what I would expect from a second growth in this great vintage. Compared to an 82 LLC for example. I have one more 82 Montrose an inherited bottle, not in good shape. Will open it over the holidays I suppose.

[JimHow]

1982 Montrose has never been good, right?

[Blanquito]

Everyone has an opinion about this, but I'd rather drink a wine just past peak than too young. Of course, everyone's definition of too old/too young depends on your palate!

[Jeff Leve]

If I can chime in, the problem with tastings of 1982, and frankly, most tastings of older wine is the provenance. It is really impossible to know what the wines are like today unless you can be assured of their provenance, which is often close to impossible to do, unless you either know older collectors that bought the wine back in the day, or if you are willing to buy full cases with provenance, which cost a healthy premium.

Also, with 1982, it was a massive harvest with little selection, so most wines have aged out after 40 years. That is to be expected.

I taste a lot of older Bordeaux, with great provenance, and as a rough guess, maybe 20 wines from 1982 are riveting today. Most of those are at the top end, though, there are a few, but not many exceptions.

[jckba]

I’ll be at a tasting with some mid-tier 82s soon and I’ll report back.

Fully looking forwards to it and do sit at my end of the table

[Jay Winton]

Jeff's comment about lack of selection in 82 made me wonder when this process became more routine? Or was it due to the "massive harvest"?

[Musigny 151]

Sadly most of the properties of Bordeaux were in serious financial trouble in 1982. Selection or throwing away grapes in green harvest, second wines were for a very few. Recession and scandals did not make life easy. 1982 changed things, but still I don’t think it was until the early to mid nineties we saw any real investment in the vineyards or cellars. My guess the real impetus came with the 1995 vintage, the first good one since 1990, and the wines suddenly began to sell to Singapore at between the and four times the release price. Now they had money to invest.

[marcs]

Sadly most of the properties of Bordeaux were in serious financial trouble in 1982. Selection or throwing away grapes in green harvest, second wines were for a very few. Recession and scandals did not make life easy. 1982 changed things, but still I don’t think it was until the early to mid nineties we saw any real investment in the vineyards or cellars. My guess the real impetus came with the 1995 vintage, the first good one since 1990, and the wines suddenly began to sell to Singapore at between the and four times the release price. Now they had money to invest.

Why were 80s vintages so good then? Is it possible that investment is overrated?

[JimHow]

You took the words out of my mouth Marcus.
Maybe that’s why the wines from the 80s are so interesting and the wines post-1995 are so personality-less, even when “well made.”

[marcs]

Could it be that when you examine each grape with a jewelers loupe to make sure it is plump and perfect and exactly identical to every other grade that goes into your wine, that the wine somehow becomes more bland and less interesting? How could that possibly be true?

[JimHow]

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints.
A little imperfection isn't always so bad.

[Jeff Leve]

Jeff's comment about lack of selection in 82 made me wonder when this process became more routine? Or was it due to the "massive harvest"?

A lot has changed since 1982. First, the harvest was massive. Chemicals and fertilizers were still in use. Green harvesting in Bordeaux did not begin to really take hold until 1989. But your other points are correct. Very little, if any wine was placed into second wines in those days. The selection practiced today discards unripe, or uneven fruit, placing them into second, or third wines, or even declassifying them, selling the grapes, or finished wine in bulk.

Today, that is not the case. Generally speaking, most top estates produce about half the amount of Grand Vin today than they did in 1982. Estates that produced 20,000 cases then, make about 10,000 cases of wine today.

With all that being said, how is 1982 such a great vintage? It was a picture-perfect harvest and growing season. If 1982 happened today, it would be a historic vintage. Also, in 1982, when you look closely, how many really good-to-great wines were there? As a guess, maybe 40? Margaux was not successful, Saint Emilion was not strong, St. Estephe was not great either.

Today, in a great vintage, it is superb from top to bottom, which was not the case in those days. Back then, there were very few wines from the Cotes de Bordeaux, Fronsac, and other regions worth following. There could be 100 of those small wines that are making great, affordable juice. That was not the case in 82.

40 years later, maybe 20/25 wines, give or take are still killing it. My bet is that vintages from today will be more consistent and age better as well.

Just a few random thoughts as I am not so busy on a Tuesday afternoon.

[JimHow]

Good to see you Mr. Leve, I may be out in LA on business at some point in 2023.
I'm looking to buy some 2019 Bordeaux if they ever arrive here on the east coast, but I've got my eyes on some 1983 and 1986 Gruaud Larose as well.

[DavidG]

Jim, you should try to arrange a get-together with Jeff for a dinner or tasting if you can. He and his tasting group are a lot of fun.

[William P]

Ian, In response to your "And now for something completely different" I would add, this parrot was dead when you nailed him to the perch.

Bill

[JimHow]

Oh man, London, England, circa 1979, when I was there studying at Cambridge, 19 years old, and Monty Python was at its peak.
That's a tough act to follow.

[Blanquito]

NO ONE expects 82 Bordeaux to be good!

[what with all the chemicals, overcropping, mass production and general unpleasantness of the time]

[DavidG]

It’s only sleeping.

[jal]

No matter what, 82 Bordeaux is not like making love in a canoe.

https://youtu.be/JbxfFOdp-bY

[Claudius2]

Jeff
I agree with most of what you say and make the point that Bordeaux from the better 80s vintages were nice wines as the vintages themselves allowed for good quality without the strict selection and improved winemaking seen in more recent vintages. Having said that irrespective of any of those factors 40 years is a long time for wine and many are obviously over the summit of their maturity curve by then.

One other point, I bought 1ers Crus in the 82 EP campaign for about AUD50. Other good estates were around AUD15-20. That is a relative bargain by 2022 standards. Even during the early 90s I could buy them at auction for AUD 50-60 with the exception of the very top vintages. Today the 1ers Crus are at least twenty times as much even on EP. Similarly I bought DRC Richebourg for about AUD200 in the 90s and can’t count high enough now as I see them going for 5k a bottle. I have not bought a single DRC wine since and have just accepted that it is a plaything of the rich.

My point is that second rate grapes, over production and sloppy winemaking have no place in the top estates in 2022. The market is much bigger now than in 1982 and there is more competition but over the years Bordeaux has been able to increase consistency in the meantime.

One trend now is that second wines are pretty good, they were in the 80s generally uninspiring though now are often very nice wines in their own right.

If there is a sad point about all of this is that when I started buying and drinking Bordeaux and other fine wine, it was enthusiasts and not billionaires who bought it. Much of the top wine that ends up over here in SE Asia and even worse, China, is drunk but the new rich who would not know the difference between a top wine and camel urine. So in some ways I wish things had remained as there were in the 80s.

Cheers
Mark

[Jeff Leve]

If there is a sad point about all of this is that when I started buying and drinking Bordeaux and other fine wine, it was enthusiasts and not billionaires who bought it. Much of the top wine that ends up over here in SE Asia and even worse, China, is drunk but the new rich who would not know the difference between a top wine and camel urine. So in some ways I wish things had remained as there were in the 80s.

Everything is more expensive today There are more people with greater amounts of wealth. That is reality.

From your post, two more points. First, every new market starts out the same. Similar comments were made about the American market in 1983. Consumers learn, with experience.

Next, while the First Growths and a few glamour Right Bank wines are prohibitively expensive, most Bordeaux aren't that pricey as a future. Especially when you compare them with other wines in the same class, from all over the world.

And more importantly, wines today are simply better. You do not need to buy First Growths. Several Second Growths are at, or close to that level and they sell for a fraction of that price. If you choose not to buy Latour, buy either Pichon for example. The same thing can be said for wines at every price point. If the top wines are expensive, there are several Haut Medoc or Cotes de Bordeaux that rock, and sell for $25-$40.

Lastly, if you are old enough to have purchased Bordeaux in the 80's, the value of everything you owned has escalated, so I do not see looking at one asset class as being realistic.

But that's just me. YMMV.

[Jeff Leve]

Good to see you Mr. Leve, I may be out in LA on business at some point in 2023.
I'm looking to buy some 2019 Bordeaux if they ever arrive here on the east coast, but I've got my eyes on some 1983 and 1986 Gruaud Larose as well.

Jim... I think you have my Email. If not, drop me a PM through my site, Facebook, Insta, etc, and if I am here, we will make a plan to share a bottle, or two... Just let me know in advance.

[marcs]

If there is a sad point about all of this is that when I started buying and drinking Bordeaux and other fine wine, it was enthusiasts and not billionaires who bought it. Much of the top wine that ends up over here in SE Asia and even worse, China, is drunk but the new rich who would not know the difference between a top wine and camel urine. So in some ways I wish things had remained as there were in the 80s.

Everything is more expensive today There are more people with greater amounts of wealth. That is reality.

From your post, two more points. First, every new market starts out the same. Similar comments were made about the American market in 1983. Consumers learn, with experience.

Next, while the First Growths and a few glamour Right Bank wines are prohibitively expensive, most Bordeaux aren't that pricey as a future. Especially when you compare them with other wines in the same class, from all over the world.

And more importantly, wines today are simply better. You do not need to buy First Growths. Several Second Growths are at, or close to that level and they sell for a fraction of that price. If you choose not to buy Latour, buy either Pichon for example. The same thing can be said for wines at every price point. If the top wines are expensive, there are several Haut Medoc or Cotes de Bordeaux that rock, and sell for $25-$40.

Lastly, if you are old enough to have purchased Bordeaux in the 80's, the value of everything you owned has escalated, so I do not see looking at one asset class as being realistic.

But that's just me. YMMV.

The lower level growths have improved so fast that I sometimes wonder if some mythical unit of “attainable Bordeaux wine quality per dollar” has actually dropped. Some lower level growths have knocked my socks off with age - had a remarkably good 2000 Chasse Spleen the other day. I wonder what some recent vintages of, say, Branaire Ducru or Meyney are going to be like in another decade or two

With that said, certain kinds of wine character attainable in the 80s may not be attainable today. It’s a different product at the higher end today - more international styled