And now for something completely different…underwhelming 82s

[JimHow]

1978-1989 is a 12 year period the likes of which, sadly, we shall never see again.

[stefan]

I fear that you are right, Jim.

[Blanquito]

1978-1989 is a 12 year period the likes of which, sadly, we shall never see again.

Very true for my tastes.

[JoelD]

Out of curiosity, why is 1990 rarely included in this window? I get why many prefer 89 over 90 and I am coming around on that as well, to an extent. Is 90 just too ripe? I think there are a lot of quality chateau's that made a better wine in 90 than 89.

[Blanquito]

Yes, 1990 should be included, good catch Joel. It ain’t as broadly successful as the 89, but the top wines are sensational and still going strong.

[JimHow]

I consciously stopped at 1989, knowing 1990 was quickly on the horizon. To me 1990 seems of a different, more modern, Parkerized style, like the beginning of a new era, a harbinger of what was to come in the 1990s and beyond. 1978 to 1989 seems like a different animal, the era of earthy, rustic, leather wines that evolve into the lead pencil cassis legends towards the end of the decade. Those are the wines that I don’t think we’ll ever see again. The JM Cazes, Cordier era. 1990 Gruaud Larose is not like 1983 Gruaud Larose. 1990 Lynch is not like 1989 Lynch. The 1990s are more like the beginning of what has evolved into the modern day Bordeaux.

[Nicklasss]

I kind of agree with Jim. The 1990 i had, while very strong reds, aren't as "classical" in style than the wines from the 1978 to 1989 era. Go figure exactly why...

[Blanquito]

I consciously stopped at 1989, knowing 1990 was quickly on the horizon. To me 1990 seems of a different, more modern, Parkerized style, like the beginning of a new era, a harbinger of what was to come in the 1990s and beyond. 1978 to 1989 seems like a different animal, the era of earthy, rustic, leather wines that evolve into the lead pencil cassis legends towards the end of the decade. Those are the wines that I don’t think we’ll ever see again. The JM Cazes, Cordier era. 1990 Gruaud Larose is not like 1983 Gruaud Larose. 1990 Lynch is not like 1989 Lynch. The 1990s are more like the beginning of what has evolved into the modern day Bordeaux.

We should debate this again, with flights of 89 vs 90! They’re finally mature enough that it would be a fair fight.

[Blanquito]

How about this line up for an 89 v 90 showdown?
Montrose
Cos
Lynch
Pichon Baron
Poyferre
LLC
Haut Brion
LMHB
Chateau Margaux
Etc

This was off the top of my head, but my money might be on the 90s in this hypothetical.

[JimHow]

I like it a Patrick.
When did destemming become a uniform practice?

[stefan]

Patrick, I am glad that you left out That Which Shall Not Be Mentioned.

[Blanquito]

Patrick, I am glad that you left out That Which Shall Not Be Mentioned.

I know nothing, I see nothing (double blind?).

[JoelD]

I think thats a very fair explanation, Jim. I guess my only counter is that I've found some great 95/96 wines to still be very classic and 80's like. Think Ducru for instance. Although others were definitely on the more modern track by then. I would say that some 1990's were still quite classic, but they were semi exceptions to the changing of the guard.

That's a great lineup, Patrick. I think you picked almost all of the wines that I found to be better in 90 than 89. So far. Las Cases and Pichon Baron. I would be surprised if the 90 Poyferre beats the 89. Same goes for Cos. I think Margaux probably has one of the other best shots, only from what I've heard. Haven't tried either.

I'd still like to do more 85 vs 86. 85 has slowly become my favorite Bordeaux vintage of all time I think. Especially if prices are factored. Although 89, 90, 86, 82, 83 are still in the running of course.