Do rhones really cut it?

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Comte Flaneur
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Do rhones really cut it?

Post by Comte Flaneur »

Eight of us gathered for a Rhone tasting organized by Patrick (Blanquito) ten days before Christmas 2008 in central Manhattan.

Fifteen out of the 16 wines I had not tried before, and I approached the task with mixed emotions of skepticism – I count my self as a Rhone skeptic - and optimism – I half expected to come away having been converted on the road to Damascus.

The wines (with lowest available US prices in parentheses, or estimates):

Flight one: white hermitage

JL Chave Hermitage Blanc 1997 ($119)

I tried this earlier in 2008 and it was just as good this time. Straw, honeysuckle, licorice, pineapple, orange blossom; it has an oily texture, is rich and concentrated with a long, fine finish. Montrachet-like - 96+

Flight two: mature C9s

Brunel Les Cailloux 1988 ($100 est.)

Earthy mushroom, soy, saddle leather, antique shop; tertiary; dilute on the palate and a bit clapped out, falls away vertiginously; like an old relic from a Thomas Hardy novel, a nice old biddy in decline – but I really enjoyed it - 85

Pegau Cuvee Reserve 1995 ($80)

Steaming horse shit, sweaty armpits, mushrooms, stewed fruit, barn door, old leather sofa, complex, rustic, sauvage; like rolling in the hay with the milk maid :roll: , a veritable treat – 89

Beaucastel 1995 ($75)

Candied note; raw, laser-like primary streak, meatiness; harsh on the palate; neither refined nor impressive - about as smooth as Sir Les Patterson, needs more time though – 85

Flight three: young C9s

Charvin 2001 ($90)

Floral, light smooth texture; laciness; Cote-de-Nuits aspirations in boorish company, but this is not Chambolle-Musigny and grenache rusticity inevitably shows through; good to drink now and will no doubt improve – 91+

Roger Sabon Cuvee Prestige 2001 ($48)

Smooth entry, but dumb; then cloves, medicinal flavours/hospital bandages; it had a hot alcoholic finish that no one really cared for. I liked this object of hate and derision more than I expected but I wouldn’t buy it - 87++

Charbonniere Les Hautes Brusquieres Cuvee Speciale 2001 ($55)

Primary raw and aggressive fruit, some notes of white pepper. Drinking this now is like banging your head against the wall, but it could turn out to be splendid in time as the primary fruit recedes and the garrigue-y notes develop - 90++

Flight four – Cornas

Chapoutier 1996 ($50 est.)

Beguiling and alluring nose of mint and thyme, but a shortish, flat finish - 87

Verset 1998 ($55)

Cinders/embers – November bonfire; vigorous and vibrant palate of red fruits and green olives that almost smacks you round the face; feisty and carnal; a thrill to drink such an esoteric wine from this legendary old man; a curiosity and a delight - 92+

Allemand Reynard 1996 ($60 est.)

Vibrantly fruity, cured meat, old socks, bonfires and gunpowder. Another thrillingly quirky wine - 90+

Voge Vieilles Vignes 1999 ($45 est.)

Young, primary and un-constituted; it has laser-like bitter red cherry and raspberry fruit, with earthy herby notes. Needs time - 89+

Flight five – Cote-Rotie and Hermitage

Jamet Cote Rotie 1998 ($100 est)

This big cat has big cojones - like the adolescent lion as it thumps its tail whilst eyeing the lionesses prowling past. It comes across as a bit awkward and uncouth; furry, gamey, animal and feral notes, this may have a lot to offer when it is tamed - 91+

Gerin “Les Grandes Places” Cote Rotie 1998 ($125)

Modern bottle and more modern style, corpulent, with overtly caricatured sweet bacon fat signature. This is the least complex wine in the flight, but an enjoyable quaffer - 89

Saint-Cosme Cote Rotie 1998 ($80)

Nothing inherently wrong with this, but soporific and with what Dale noted to be a somewhat soupy texture - 88

JL Chave Hermitage, 1986 ($100)

Light translucent maroon; medium-bodied, refined with notes of game, pepper and red fruits. An aristocrat among the bourgeoisie, this wine had a certain breed and gravitas, conspicuously lacking in all the other reds last night - 91

Flight six: sauternes

Chateau Coutet (Sauternes, Bordeaux) 2001

No notes, but this nectar was absolutely splendid. Second best wine of the night. (Patrick only paid $27 for this. I though I had a bargain when I paid $44 at Franks) 93++

There were some fascinating rhones that night; they are the antithesis of bland corporate wines. The mature C9s were a lot of fun but rudimentary and rustic, while the younger ones were slicker but revealed the limitations of the raw materials – Grenache, moudevre etc. I remain deeply skeptical that these southern rhones can ever achieve the heights of the greatest northern rhones…let alone burgundy and Bordeaux. Pumping up the alcohol ain’t the solution either.

The Cornas flight was the most fascinating, and these are arguably the ones to seek out. But these wines are more old style curiosities than lending themselves to superlatives. But if I stumble across the odd bottle or two of Verset Cornas at a reasonable price I will be sure to snaffle them up.

The Cote-Roties did not really do it for me either…I was rather put off by the furry, soupy textures of some of them – none of them could hold a candle to a Guigal La Mouline, while in the same flight the Chave distinguished itself for its breed and class.

The Chave Blanc meanwhile was sublime and is a candidate for my white wine of the year in 2008 (it was the runner up). It was comfortably the WOTN.

I remain a Rhone skeptic unfortunately but I really enjoyed the tasting. I want to drink more Chave. But at the end of the day, at these price points you can probably do better in burgundy; you can definitely do better in Bordeaux. I suspect if it had been a burgundy or Bordeaux tasting the hangover would be mild rather than thumping.

Disclaimer: The scores are merely for comparative purposes, and make no pretence for accuracy, objectivity, consistency and fairness. The plusses reflect the degree of (un)readines
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JimHow
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Re: Do rhones really cut it?

Post by JimHow »

I'm sipping on a Rhone as I write this, Ian, gonna come back and read your notes in a bit.
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alchemeus
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Re: Do rhones really cut it?

Post by alchemeus »

I've found many CdP's MOST EXCELLENT recently, the ones I've popped. Gonna hold for a few more years. These were the 1998 vintage. They do indeed 'Cut It'. Enormous complexity and smoothness but with grip. Kinda skittish to pop any Cote Rotie now.

Now the village stuff, Orange, Gigondas, Vayquers, etc, I prefer them young or around age 5+ or so. Just me and my cellar and my palate with my foods.

As I neither buy very expensive wines (usually, those Mouton and Haut Brion and such from 1998 for 95 bucks an exception) nor limit myself to 'reviewed' wines my opinions are useless.

I buy more from importer than reviewer. Kysela rarely disappoints. Might not blow your socks off but succinct for the area and doesn't deplete your bank account.
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stefan
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Re: Do rhones really cut it?

Post by stefan »

It is great to read a review on Rhones from you, Ian. I also am not a Rhone lover even if I like to drink them from time to time. BordeauxHarry writes wonderful reports on Rhones, but as he is a CdP freak, I often do not share his enthusiasm for the wines.

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Claret
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Re: Do rhones really cut it?

Post by Claret »

I have had a couple of really good Rhones this month.

2001 Domaine des Remezieres Hermitage was showing classic Syrah gaminess and structure, yet was suprisingly giving .

2000 Charvin was less Burgundian than usual, but was a delightful Grenache.

Sadly, I am buying very few Rhones these days.
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JimHow
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Re: Do rhones really cut it?

Post by JimHow »

I've had some lovely Rhones over the years.
This '07 Domaine "La Garrigue", for example, is quite nice.
What I sometimes have trouble getting my arms around, including with this 14% effort, are the alcohol levels.
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JScott
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Re: Do rhones really cut it?

Post by JScott »

Boy, you have my mouth watering with that '95 Pegau note. Sounds fab-oo.

Second your note on the '97 Chave Blanc. I'm clinging to one lone half bottle of the lot I had, but thinking I probably need to pull the trigger sooner rather than later. I did go back to the well for the '05.

I'm finding that I generally prefer Northern Rhone to Southern Rhone by a wide margin, though I do occasionally like an aged CDP. (Sorry Harry!)
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alchemeus
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Re: Do rhones really cut it?

Post by alchemeus »

"What I sometimes have trouble getting my arms around, including with this 14% effort, are the alcohol levels."

Sadly, that is the experience with many previously nice wines. It's a fad.

Exactly. Many times 14.5+ alcohol. YEECH!

Sometimes this isn't Good.

Riper, more sugary grapes, sometimes, is a BAD thing.

Cherry cola tasting wines are crap. Well, unless you actually like that stuff. Feel free to try Boone's Farm.

Most times, honestly, the wines no one has heard of via some 'critic' are far better than a '90 pointer' from a critic.

Experience. Then opinion. Feel free to ignore.
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Blanquito
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Re: Do rhones really cut it?

Post by Blanquito »

Fantastic notes, Ian! Impressive prose and insights. Not much needs adding, really, except that the Coutet was the 2003, not the 2001. I share Ian's lack of enthusiasm for the northern Rhone mainly because of prices; I am a fan of Chateauneuf-du-Pape, but they suffered by comparison in this context. For some reason, I was not in the zone that night tasting notes-wise, but here are my impressions FWIW... [my + signs will follow Ian's convention above; I left out the wines I didn't take notes on]

Chave Hermitage Blanc 1997
We all loved this youngster. I got wonderful flavors of honeysuckle and the texture was an oily heaven. Reminded me of a riper Burgundy. Will improve, methinks. Thanks for bringing this one, Ian! 94 pts

Brunel Les Cailloux 1988
I liked this more than some, but it's definitely in decline. Complex nose, not much on the palate. 88 pts.

Pegau Cuvee Reserve 1995
This was my favorite CDP, by an nose. It had by far the best core of ripe fruit in the old CDPs to go along with its old-school rusticity. A treat, once the funk blew off. 92 pts.

Beaucastel 1995
Disappointing, it probably needs more time. I got more cow-shit on the nose than any other wine I can think of. Gamey and unique. 86 pts.

Charvin 2001
This stood out as the class of the young CDPs, and in time it will probably be the best, but it is too young right now. Not closed per se, but tight for a CDP. Classy. 92+ pts

Roger Sabon Cuvee Prestige 2001
I liked this more than others, but the heat on the finish was unattractive and it came across as simple in this company. I did taste it earlier when I double-decanted it (giving it ~91 pts), and I enjoyed it much more-- context? 88 pts.

Charbonniere Les Hautes Brusquieres Cuvee Speciale 2001
This will be really good some day, and I bought a few bottles more for $35 when it popped up on my radar. But as Ian says, it's too young today. Very grenache. 91+ pts.

Chapoutier 1996
Not much on this one (AKA it was dull). It was a let-down. 85 pts.

Verset 1998
This was my favorite Cornas by far. Terrific and unusual bouquet (Ian's green olives is spot on). I think too give it 92+ pts.

Saint-Cosme Cote Rotie 1998
Uninspiring.

Chave Hermitage 1986
This was the class of the Cotie Roties, refined, smooth, lovely. It balanced earth and fruit perfectly. 93 pts

Chateau Coutet (Sauternes) 2003
Young and delicious, I am becoming a real Sauternes lover. Not cloying at all, especially for a 2003. Classic cremee brulee and apricots, it's rich and balanced. I did only pay $27 for a 750ml of this, and I wish I'd bought more. 94 pts.
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DavidG
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Re: Do rhones really cut it?

Post by DavidG »

I'm a big Rhone fan, bot S and N.

Now how'd you find a Sauternes from the Rhone?
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Otto Nieminen
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Re: Do rhones really cut it?

Post by Otto Nieminen »

JimHow wrote:What I sometimes have trouble getting my arms around, including with this 14% effort, are the alcohol levels.
I might have asked this before, but have you tried Eric Texier's Rhônes? The alcohol levels in his wines - even in warmer years like '05 - tend to be at the lower end of the spectrum of the area. I think they are excellent, elegant wines.
Previously known as Geshtin.
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Rieslingfan
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Re: Do rhones really cut it?

Post by Rieslingfan »

I am generally a big fan of Rhones, but the last two I opened (2001 Boisrenard & 2001 Pegau Laurence) did nothing for me. THe Boisrenard was pruney and soupy, and the Pegau Laurence smelled like old wood and not much else.
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