Which producer was your gateway into the perils of red burgundy?

[Blanquito]

It took me a while, but I’m digging red burgundy these days. One producer in particular really served as the gateway drug: Chevillon (honorable mention to Felettig and Jadot). Love these wines — the reasonable pricing played an important role.

What’s yours?

[William P]

I would agree Patrick with Jadot and later Chevillon.

Bill

[JoelD]

My friend Dallas opened a 2009 Jayer Gilles Echezeaux a couple years ago that was my red burgundy epiphany wine. Too young, but with a few hours in a decanter it showed things that I didn't know were possible in a wine. Just amazing. I have some other vintages of this wine that I hope to open in the future with him and return the favor.

A bit later on at my first dinner with Marcus, David, Eric etc. Corey brought a 1997 Jadot Chapelle Chambertin that was my aged Burgundy epiphany wine. I was since able to finally find some to recreate that moment. The first bottle of five bottles was terribly corked. But the second was wonderful and competed with the 97 Jadot Clos De Beze that Marcus brought to compare.

I now have more Jadot than any other burgs in my cellar. But they're also a huge producer. Love Chevillon, especially the LSG. Need to try Felettig, just picked up a bunch of their 2019 village and 1er cru MSD's for steals.

[JimHow]

I had a 1993 DRC Echezeaux that I got from Premier Cru for an even $100 back in the day, it was pretty spectacular. Eddie and others will remember that I bought a mixed case of 1980s village level Burgundy in the early days of BWE in the early 2000s and reported back on them, they were all stunning. I was wowed by the 2005 vintage in its youth, so much so that I named it the BWE wine of the year. 2005 Mongeard Mugneret Fixin was a wine that I really liked. A 1996 DRC Grand Echezeaux that Jackdaw brought to a NYC '03 dinner was one of my greatest wine experiences. And of course there was the 2004 DRC Richebourg that Danny brought to Ian's a few years ago, wow wow wee!

[SF Ed]

I didn't have a single gateway event, so hard to say. The first producer from whom I had a lot of great Burgundy was probably Lamarche. I'm still a big fan of the 1993 Lamarche La Grand Rue.

For understanding the true heights of Burgundy, I'd say Mugnier. A 2002 Les Fuees in 2006 or 20007 was game-changing.

SF Ed

[Claudius2]

Guys
In my case, it was Faiveley probably more than any other producer though I don’t like the style of some of their wines more recently.

Going back some decades, Faiveley wines were easy to find, reasonable value and well made and better than wines from some of the other big estates at the time. I also managed to buy them in bulk at auction.

A few others that helped encourage my interest were Pavelot, Ecard, Morot, Leflaive (too expensive now), Ghislane Bartod,Chevillon, Groffier, Leclerc, Arnoux, Jadot, Anne Gros, Bize, Girardin and Remoissenet, the latter I import directly.

These days I tend to buy whites mainly from Meursaut and Chassagne, and reds from Gevrey, NSG, Beaune, SLB, Pommard, Volnay and Corton. I suppose I avoid Vosne Romanee due to price and buy Chambolle if I can get a good deal.

Cheers
Mark

[JimHow]

Werner once said that Jadot is boring.

Comment?

[JoelD]

Jadot is a Huge producer and negotiant. All depends which wines you're talking about and from which vintages. I've had some Jadot's that have been anything but boring. And plenty that have been. The Domaine Andre Gagey bottlings are usually the best if you can get them.

[Nicklasss]

For me, it is clearly Hudelot-Noellat, that changed my perception of red Bourgogne.

Their Chambolle-Musigny, Clos de Vougeot and Romanée Saint-Vivant have been top wines of Bourgogne to me.

[stefan]

The first great Burgundy that I had was a 1962 Clos de Tart that a friend served at a dinner in 1970. However, it was much later that I got hooked on Burgundy after buying and drinking a bunch of Jadot domaine wines, mostly from Beaune. They were very tasty and modestly priced and are still not terribly expensive. I was in early enough to buy some top grand crus (Richebourg, Chambertin, Musigny, etc.) from various producers that now too expensive for me.

As for Chevillon, I love all his NSG wines and drank a ton of his 2003 and 2004 ones because they were so good young and very cheap by Burgundy standards.

[Blanquito]

DRC, based on the few times I’ve had it, is transcendent. But it’s hard for me to consider it “burgundy”. That’s like calling Michael Jordan a “basketball player”. Whatever DRC can do doesn’t seem relevant to the burgundies I might buy, cellar, enjoy, cherish. Not a criticism by any means, just separating the few nights I’ve spent with the gods from the rest of my mortal realities.

For a long time, the non-DRC division in red burgundy seemed prosaic to me, as boring as a 93 Jadot Pommard. I arrived far too late to catch the 2005 boat. I had the occasional Volnay that was tasty, but I couldn’t usually even find the producers on these bottles, adding to the mystery. I kept encountering some rarefied, sensational ones here and there, but these mainly served to reinforce my perception that all the great stuff was as unobtainium as DRC. But then, with little fanfare, with Ian and some of the NYC crowd, I had a series of great, reasonably priced (for burgundy), delicious, authentic, soulful pinots from Chevillon, Felettig, and Jadot (but see Joel’s criteria), and I was off and running. And visiting Burgundy itself in 2021 certainly didn’t hurt.

[jal]

So 3 producers:
Mugnier, Vogue and Rousseau.
Jacques Frederic Mugnier who doesn't have a weak spot in his lineup of wines. Chambolle Musigny, Chambolle Fuees, Chambolle Amoureuses, Musigny, Bonnes Mares, these were all relatively cheap, open and accessible in 1997-2003. And we always thought we could get more at reasonable prices. Now his Village wine sells for >$500.
Vogue Chambolle 1er for about $45 in the late 90s, made of 24 year old vines was incredible! At 25 yrs the wine goes into a Musigny. Rousseau's entire lineup but especially his Ruchottes Chambertin Clos des Ruchottes was also a revelation at the time. Same price craziness as Mugnier.
If I had to name one producer as the gateway it would be Mugnier.
I find Jadot's negociant wines boring as well, his estate wines are hit and miss. I only buy Jadot when there is a limited choice.

[stefan]

>>
I find Jadot's ... estate wines are hit and miss."

Interesting, Jacques, as I am rarely disappointed by Jadot estate wines. Of course, I am not comparing to Mugnier, Rousseau, and Vogue, all which have prices in the stratosphere.

[Comte Flaneur]

For me it wasn’t any particular producer, I just got lured into the spell of burgundy - both red and white - but white first.

I remember really liking a Chassagne Montrachet rouge some time in the late 1980s, then I tried a Chassagne Montrachet Blanc and it blew me away - compared to the heavy handed Aussie Chardonnays I drank at the time - it was magical. I remember neither producer.

That was when the perilous journey began, but burgundy in those days was not eye-wateringly expensive. As my interest was piqued I immersed myself ever deeper. If there was one producer of white and red each it would have probably been Domaine (Vincent) Leflaive and Jean-Louis Trapet, now Domaine Trapet.

I bought producers like Ramonet, Coche Dury, Rousseau and of course DRC. My first DRC purchase was a bottle of Grand Echezeaux 1982 for £40. It was profound but I could not quite get my young head around it. My first case of Coche Dury was the 1988 Meursault and I can’t remember what I paid but I later paid £480 for a case of the 1997. Perhaps the most profound burgundy I drank in the early days was Domaine Ponsot Clos de l Roche VV 1985. I am overwhelmingly saddened by the price of fine burgundy these days.

[jal]

For white burgundies it was a Niellon Chassagne, in 1997 at Goumard Prunier in Paris. We were drinking something nondescript and struck a conversation with a lonely American businessman, he gave me a taste of his wine, the earth shook the angels started singing and nothing was the same afterwards.

[ericindc]

Wait, so everyone here are saying their gateway burgundy was stuff like Rousseau, DRC, Coche-drury, etc? THOSE were your first burgs? jeez. Thats like saying I didnt like Bordeaux until I tasted Lafite. Mine was a bit more humble. I first got hooked when I had an mid-aged Albert Morot 1er red burgundy.

[JoelD]

Actually white burgundy was what I got into first, if we're discussing that here as well. This was even before I was really collecting wine. I had a 2001 Bzikot Puligny Village out of Magnum at a tasting menu dinner in DC. I never knew that chardonnay could taste like that. Sent me down a premox rabbit hole. But I came out the other side. Funny enough. Just had a 2017 Bzikot puligny village out of 375 tonight at a lovely traditional Peruvian place. And had a 99 Bzikot folatieres at Christmas with my brother who loves older white burgs.

[RPCV]

Oddly enough, it wasn't a red burgundy that got me interested; it was a 1983 Chave Rouge. I find that older northern Rhone syrah and even some well-judged older southern Rhone (Rayas, Clos des Papes and even Beaucastel) can express some of the qualities that mimic a good red burgundy. That was my kick-off point for buying and enjoying this magical area of wine.

[JimHow]

What is the word on 2020 red and white Burgundy?

[RPCV]

What is the word on 2020 red and white Burgundy?

Nice brief here:

https://www.bbr.com/editorial/burgundy/ ... age-report

Slow malo is always a good sign in both red and white, IMHO

[jal]

Wait, so everyone here are saying their gateway burgundy was stuff like Rousseau, DRC, Coche-drury, etc? THOSE were your first burgs? jeez. Thats like saying I didnt like Bordeaux until I tasted Lafite. Mine was a bit more humble. I first got hooked when I had an mid-aged Albert Morot 1er red burgundy.

No!
These were not our first Burgs. These were the first burgs that really showed the beauty of the wine.
I have had plenty of village and 1er cru but it wasn't until my first Mugnier Chambolle village that I really started to understand.
And also in those days the difference between a Mugnier/Rousseau Village and a Jadot/Felletig Village was a few $ not hundreds of dollars like today.

[JimHow]

Thanks RC, I'm stocking up on 2019 Pavelot Gravains, Dominode, Lavierres, and Guettes, and it sounds like I want to pick up some 2020s as well.

[DavidG]

I have so far resisted the siren song of red Burgundy. She is quite the temptress.

Like Joel, my first love in Burgundy was white. My interest began with a long-forgotten Meursault opened by my father back in the ‘80s. Jadot was my gateway. Ubiquitous and inexpensive, though not exciting or outstanding, there were widely available offerings in Meursault, Puligny- and Chassagne-Montrachet, and Corton-Charlie. My love grew as I discovered other producers. But they were getting expensive and the betrayal of pre-mox led to a contentious divorce. It was many years before I was willing to subject myself to the risk of another painful breakup, but I have tentatively started to re-engage.

Red burgs? Afraid of going there lest I need an exorcism.

[JimHow]

I really think there is truth in what Jacques says about Burgundy quality year in and year out.
And I don't think you have to spend crazy amounts to get high quality.
Those Pavelots in the $50 range have been a great revelation.
I bought some simple village 2017 Jadot NSG that was drinking beautifully this past year.

[Claudius2]

Jim
I’ve been drinking Pavelot SLBs for some decades. They are very good for the appellation with rich fruit and good structure. I can buy the 1ers Crus here in Singapore for less than SGD60 or about 44 greenbacks on en primeur and that is a relative bargain in a country that is happy to tax alcohol to raise secondary tax revenue. Want to buy an apartment here? I blew SGD114k just for stamp duty and it is even more now.

What I don’t get with Burgundy is that there are more and more wines asking stratospheric prices. Yet I can also buy excellent wines for reasonable prices. Oh well. I’m not one of the new riche.

Cheers
Mark

[JimS]

I really think there is truth in what Jacques says about Burgundy quality year in and year out.
And I don't think you have to spend crazy amounts to get high quality.
Those Pavelots in the $50 range have been a great revelation.
I bought some simple village 2017 Jadot NSG that was drinking beautifully this past year.

You absolutely don't need to spend a fortune to drink quite great quality wines these days in Burgundy.

If you do enough blind tasting, I think you'll find that appellations really aren't what they used to be as far as being able to get a read on objective quality. There are flat out stunning wines now being made out of Santenay, St. Aubin, Fixin, etc. that are overlooked because they don't have the correct vineyard name affixed to the label. The market, I believe, is slowly starting to come to realize this fact, but there are just flat out stunning wines in Burgundy that do NOT cost an arm and a leg, they just don't have "Montrachet" on the label

Berthaut Gerbet, Chantereves, Hubert Lamy, Bruno Lorenzon, Jean Marc Vincent, Jean Claude Bessin, Chavy Chouet, etc. are all names I go to for whites and reds. Just fantastic QPRs and hope they stay that way (sadly they likely won't forever).

[Nicklasss]

I agree with JimS on Bruno Lorenzon, the guy is making quite serious red Mercurey.

Another fascinating producer in Mercurey, that i have discovered lately, is François Raquillet. His 2019 VV is just... amazing!

[Winona Chief]

Like others, I started out with mostly white Burgundy. There was a big sale of older wines from a distributor that was going bankrupt (I think) at Calvert Woodley back around 1994. I picked up a bunch of 1971 Boillot red Burgundies for about $13 a bottle. They were very good. I do like red Burgundy a lot but mostly look for cheaper stuff from Beaune, Savigny Les Beaune, Mercurey, Volnay, etc.

Chris Bublitz

[stefan]

Last night and tonight Lucie and I drank 2010 Louis Jadot Domaine des Heritiers Boucherottes. This Beaune 1er Cru lacks the elegant power of Chambertin and the ethereal bouquet of Musigny, but it is a very nice Pinot. The balance is just right, the fruit sweet, and the body as it should be. The market appreciates its merits without drastically overvaluing it. Recent vintages can be bought in the USA in the low $60s, and I imagine that smart shoppers can do better.

On my next Burgundy shopping trip I will look for some Pavelot SLB. How long do they take to come around? This 2010 Jadot Beaune is definitely on the young side even if it is very good for drinking now.

[Tom In DC]

My gateway Burgs parallel jal's experience. In the late 70's and early 80's, Burgundy was indeed a minefield. But you could still buy well aged DRC, Leroy, Meo Camuzet, Vogue, and the like for barely more than current Bordeaux first growths and some upstart California cabs!

Tasting '55, '59, '66, '69, '70 and '71 La Tache is why I chose the '85 LT as my desert island wine...I know it has many years of positive development ahead. If only I had any more or could afford to buy back in...

[jal]

On my next Burgundy shopping trip I will look for some Pavelot SLB. How long do they take to come around? This 2010 Jadot Beaune is definitely on the young side even if it is very good for drinking now.

I like the regular Pavelot SLB Village Stefan, I think it can provide a lot of pleasure even if drunk young. 1er SLBs will benefit from aging. I much prefer to buy and drink young Village than store and age the 1ers.

[JimHow]

I tried all three of the one bottle samples I bought, Stefan, Aux Gravains, La Dominode, and Les Lavieres.
Like RC, if I had to pick one over the others I would go with Aux Gravains, but I loved the others as well and ordered more of each.

[JimHow]

I heard back from Zachy's that's an in-stoe sale only, JC. Ah well, no problem, I've got enough wine and I'm fasting these days.