Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

According to my latest experience with the 1995 PLL, of sdr Latour event or other BWEers experience.

Let say wines over 25 yo.

I resisted the auction market for years due to concern for provenance. I won’t say my fears were unfounded, there are risks, but I’ve encountered very few duds.

I rarely buy wines over 25 years old, more like 15-25 year range, but I’d have to say the great majority have turned out very well. In fact, well enough to make me question why we age wine ourselves when we can just have other people store it for us and buy it 20 years later

In fact I’d say my hit rate is more like 85-90% than 80%

marcs wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:27 am I rarely buy wines over 25 years old, more like 15-25 year range, but I’d have to say the great majority have turned out very well. In fact, well enough to make me question why we age wine ourselves when we can just have other people store it for us and buy it 20 years later

In fact I’d say my hit rate is more like 85-90% than 80%

Very much my experience. Price is one thing, but with a few simple rules (mostly only buying/bidding on wines with photos that show perfect or near perfect fills), the auction market is/was such a good friend.

Guys
with very few exceptions I no longer buy old wines.
The oldest I have bought in the last five years were 2005 vintage Bordeaux and Burgundy.

It is too risky in Singapore to bug local stock so the back vintages I buy are European sourced.

I’ve bought a few 1995 premiers crus and a few oldish ports but from auction - all are sourced thru the Netherlands.

I had a high failure rate in Australia with anything over 15 years old but realistically storage was poor in the past. Proper wine storage started becoming common from the 90s onward but that was too late to help the older wines.

I haven't bought at auction in about a year, I have had only good experiences with older wines. My worst experience was with a 1995 Duhart Milon but it's hard to tell if it was the wine that was just mediocre.

85%-90% is remarkable, Marcus & Patrick. I voted 60%, although maybe I hit around 70-75%.

stefan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:13 pm 85%-90% is remarkable, Marcus & Patrick. I voted 60%, although maybe I hit around 70-75%.

I should note I am excluding corked wines from the percentage.

Less than 25 years old my rate of success has been very high....reputable retailers, obviously.

Excluding corked bottles:

Young, 3-15: 98%
Early medium, 15-25: 95%
Late medium, 26-35: 90%
Old, 36-45: 80%
Very old, 46-60: 75%
Ancient, >60: 50%

Seeing Stu’s categories, where presumably the occasional archeological dig is needed to secure some of his ancient bottles, I’d add that 95% of my backfilled bottles have been from 1982-2000, with the oldest bottle ever probably from 1970.*

*Not including some utterly pristine Italian wines from the 60’s sourced from Chambers St Wines, that were ex-chateau and hadn’t been moved once since bottling.

I don't have nearly Stu's experience. Most of my backfilling at auction has been in what he labels "early medium" and "late medium," 15-35 years, and my hit rate has been in the 90-95% range. Better than my experience buying older vintages at some (not all) retailers.

As Patrick said, as long as you're diligent there can be a high hit rate. Pics, fill levels, nothing weird with the corks or seepage. Also choosing your retailers and auction houses carefully.

Although I've probably had a number of bottles that were good, but not at the level of some of the wines that friends have cellared since release.

With that said, even including corked wines, I'd say my hit rate is probably over 80%. Depending on how you count wines that are good but not as great as other bottles of the same wine. But that can also be explained by regular bottle variation etc. Or even the original import.

I think Stu hit it on the head with his percentages if mostly talking about Bordeaux. Old Barolo is the exception to the very old/ancient percentages. Very high hit rate when sourced properly. Burgundy percentages much lower so I tend to stay away from most wines pre 1990.

Appreciate all your comments. Looking at my own case, i guess i'm more around 60 % of full satisfaction, on bottles between 20-35 yo that i have bought in USA or last summer in London.