2005-the forgotten great vintage?

[Harry C.]

I have been reading this board for a long time and when a new hot vintage comes on the market, there’s a lot of buzz about it, as expected. Recently, we’ve had a run of great vintages of -the most recent ones, 2018, 19, 20 have all gotten recent buzz. But people will refer to past great vintages to compare or contrast or say are they better than, say, 2016, 2015 and occasionally 2010 or 2009. The one that clearly has been shuffled to the back of the drawer is 2005. Every bottle from this vintage that I’ve opened has been wonderful and I’m wondering is there something I’m missing or have people had bad examples, or…. So, where’s the love?

[marcs]

Between sometimes overdone right bank wines and left bank wines that took a long long time to come around I think some of us kind of stopped thinking about 2005 so much. Is it living up to early billing now?

[Comte Flaneur]

It is still early days yet
It is not the most charming, subtle or nuanced vintage
A vintage with a lot of stuffing and some times too much extraction?
With some horror shows on the right bank. Maximum RMP influence
I tried 2005 Ch Le Crock St-Estephe last week…it could have been Le Crock du Merde, too much extraction and zero finesse
I really like Beychevelle, however, but the two stars for me are #1 Gruaud Larose and #2 Duhart Milon

[RPCV]

What past vintages are similar? 85 and 89 come to mind....maybe 75?

[Ognik]

86

[JimHow]

I was surprised by the lack of focus, the flabbiness, lack of structure and acidity in the Grand Mayne and Brane Cantenac, and even the d'Issan did not wow me, in a vintage that followed a strong run of vintages from d'Issan.

[Comte Flaneur]

What past vintages are similar? 85 and 89 come to mind....maybe 75?

I do t think there are any templates RP…but the closest would perhaps be 2000

[Musigny 151]

I have really loved 2005 from its inception. A really old fashioned long lived vintage.The wines have a powerful tannic edge, but unlike say the 1986, they lack the hardness and are at the very early stages of coming round. I am surprised by the notes of lack of acidity, although TBH I have only had a few wines recently, Palmer which was superb, Ducru, very good and Montrose, promising but massive. The better wines will need a few years though.

[Musigny 151]

What past vintages are similar? 85 and 89 come to mind....maybe 75?

I do t think there are any templates RP…but the closest would perhaps be 2000

I found the 2000s a lot prettier, and although they also need time, will evolve more quickly, but will be less long lived. One old timer suggested 1928, although he himself tasted them at twenty, about the same age as we are tasting the 2005 vintage now,

[JoelD]

This is a great question as I too have always been fairly high on the good 2005's. But they are bigger and extracted so it remains to be seen where they will go and when they will come around. Kind of like 2005 Burgundy in that way.

Ian and Mark, aren't you both fairly high on 2005 Conseillante and 2005 VCC?

[Comte Flaneur]

I can’t speak for VCC Joel but I know Mark really rates it. I have a case of 2005 La Conseillante, right now somewhat unforgiving, as hard as nails and without the charm that one associates with older vintages of this estate, but it has the potential and I am optimistic it will come round. It needs at least one Blanquito.

[JimHow]

Ok... so who has had the biggest 2005 WOW moment here on BWE....

Drum roll....

Give me your '89 Montrose moment, your '89 Lalande... Heck, give me a 2004 SHL... C'mon... throw it at me, denizens of the "profound" <rolls eyes> 2005 Bordeaux vintage....

[AKR]

Of what I have tasted, I have mostly loved 2005. I laid down cases of some the petit chateau / cru bourgeoise which are now finished (Charmail, Cambon La Pelouse, Caronne St. Gemme) and they drank wonderfully for 10-15 years. I still have a box of Lanessan which needs to be surfaced.

[Comte Flaneur]

Ok... so who has had the biggest 2005 WOW moment here on BWE....

Drum roll....

Give me your '89 Montrose moment, your '89 Lalande... Heck, give me a 2004 SHL... C'mon... throw it at me, denizens of the "profound" <rolls eyes> 2005 Bordeaux vintage....

No wow moments but I have not tried VCC or LMHB

The closest I got was Sociando Mallet - the best I have tried from that address
I thought Montrose was very good when I tried it, and I preferred the 2005 to the 2000 and the 2003 but it is not a wow wine like the 2016 Montrose
During the 2020 lockdowns I tried a lot of 05s, next to 09s and 10s in zoom tastings and the 05s generally fell well short of the 09s and 10s.
Palmer is very good in 2005 but 2010 is better.
Wines like Mouton and LLC are big tannic and brooding. I see I have a six pack of Latour. Maybe I will crack one open on my 100th birthday.
And I have had some horror stories too: Pavie and Angelus
But as noted my top three favourite 2005s now are: Gruaud Larose, Duhart Milon and Beychevelle in that order. I would recommend them all highly.

[stefan]

2005 Grand Cru Classe wines have great structure, but I have yet to try one that would not benefit from being blanquitoed, and most of mine are stored at 64F to hasten aging.

IMO, Arv did the right thing by drinking many petit Chateau from this vintage while allowing the fancy wines to age. Typically the lesser lights make wonderful wines in great vintages, and 2005 is no exception to that rule of thumb.

[marcs]

Ok... so who has had the biggest 2005 WOW moment here on BWE....

Drum roll....

Give me your '89 Montrose moment, your '89 Lalande... Heck, give me a 2004 SHL... C'mon... throw it at me, denizens of the "profound" <rolls eyes> 2005 Bordeaux vintage....

The 2005 Conseillante was flat out great when i had it about five years ago. From what Ian says it may have since tightened up…not too surprising as it was an incredibly deep and substantial wine

A lot of people seemed to love the 2005 Pichon Baron when I brought it to BWE for I think our last big pre-covid dinner that I arranged at Bistro Cacao. I thought it was good but too young. Very high acidity

[marcs]

I had the chance to buy the 2005 Gruaud at a reasonable price some years ago but unfortunately passed it up. It’s a shame because I actually really like recent era Gruaud

Apparently word is out now because it seems to be up to $150/bottle…

[Musigny 151]

When I tasted in primeur, there were four stand out wines. The Ausone which was for me the wine of the vintage is the only one I have not retasted as it sells for well north of $1000.

The other three were VCC which was the first time I realized the quality of the property. In addition to magnums and bottles, I bought a lot of half bottles, which I try every six months or so. Still superb, and still needs a ton of time.

Pichon Baron. The closest to ready. Very cassis, very Pauillac and the best Baron I have ever tasted. Great value.

Latour. Retasted once. Grand Vin paradigm.

[Harry C.]

Jim, I propose that your proposition is flawed. To assume that a great vintage must have an outstanding one wine is not necessarily true. There were some great 1989‘s, but on the whole vintage in my opinion is that it is very variable and I would question the presumption that because 89 Lynch Bages was great that the vintage is great. I have yet to open the big name 2005s, but the Cru bourgeois and lesser class growths have been wonderful consistently in my opinion.

[Comte Flaneur]

I forgot about Pichon Baron 2005. It is the best of the super seconds, and close to the 2010 PB. Pichon Lalande is interesting because it is so laid back in 2005 and ostensibly an underachiever next to the Baron, like it was in the 1990 vintage. Not tried Ducru.

[JoelD]

I loved Marcus's 05 Pichon Baron at BWE 2020. It was young but showed great after an hour in the decanter. It's definitely still a wine that I need in my cellar and don't have yet for whatever reason.

Coincidentally that might be the first and only time that Marcus thought a wine was too young that I enjoyed and thought was approachable! Although usually it's me just liking older wines that he thinks are over the hill.

[Nicklasss]

The 2005 Haut Bailly is kind of great in a very classical way.

2005 Duhart Milon has that perfect balaced and complex Pauillac character.

2005 Cantemerle is also a success in that vintage, and a BWE WOTY!

[DavidG]

Early reports of greatest vintage ever were not the only ones out there. Some had concerns about levels of extraction being over the top. Too much of everything. It was indeed the pinnacle of Parkerization.

I bought broadly but not deeply. A lot of them are still not ready. I have high hopes for some, thinking I just need to be patient and they'll turn into excellent aged Bordeaux, like the 86s. The high zing St. Emilions though, are doing a pretty good Napa cab imitation.

A number of 2005s are wow-worthy to my palate. Some already mentioned:
Pichon Baron
Conseillante
Palmer
Trotanoy

[Blanquito]

Magdelaine, Canon and Figeac are very young still but all will be glorious at their peak.

[dstgolf]

Harry
For the most part I've enjoyed the 05s but they are evolving at a glacial pace. The Duhart Milon is an incredible QPR. l'Arrose, Lafon Rochet, Pichon Baron, Barton, Malescot Gruaud and others are fantastic. Many others are struggling to show their colours and not sure if they ever will.

One major disappointment has been Pavie Macquin which I bought a 6 pack from the LCBO and SAQ both on futures following our visit in 05 to the Chateau. I'm not sure if it's the wine or just horrible shipping to Canada with both batches tasting cooked/heat damaged. I think these sat on a loading dock somewhere in transit and have that stewed prune, weedy taste which is very disappointing. I've seen anecdotal postings on cellar tracker with people complaining about the Ontario allocation but tonight we had the first Quebec bottle and same stewed fruit. Anyone else tried this from elsewhere in the world and have similar or same experience. I must say I've never experienced this before but suffering through 7 bottles of putrid over priced wine has been frustrating.

[DavidG]

This thread got me to open a few 2005s to check in on them at age 18. Are they developing glacially? Over-extracted and drying out? As good as the initial hype?

Just as I was about to post my thoughts, along came Jay’s post highlighting William Kelly’s excellent recent essay on “Bordeaux in 2023: The State of the Art” (https://winejournal.robertparker.com/fr ... of-the-art), where he talks a fair bit about over-extraction in 2000-2010. Maybe selection bias on my part, but I haven’t seen any of it in the modestly broad range of 2000 right and left bankers I’ve opened.

Even 2005, presumably the poster child for over-extraction and the topic of this thread, has offered some good recent drinking. Aside from my list of “wows” above, bottles of 2005 Pontet Canet and even the modernista St. Emilion Larcis Ducasse were delicious and developing nicely, not drying out or losing fruit. The 2005 Troplong Mondot from last night, however, was impenetrably tough and tannic. We’ll see if an overnight in the fridge does anything for it, but I have my doubts.

My take on 2005 is that it depends on the individual wine. Some are suffering from too much concentration and extraction, with the fruit losing the tug of war to the tannin and acid. Some are too ripe. But some are starting to show well and are likely to reward continued patience, even if they aren’t the wunderkinds the barrel-tasting press touted them to be.