William Kelley's take
https://winejournal.robertparker.com/fr ... of-the-art
Bordeaux today
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Jay Winton
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Re: Bordeaux today
Thanks for sharing Jay. The link is an important post I hope BWE take time to read, whether or not they are they subscribe to the WA weltanschaung.
Last edited by AKR on Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Bordeaux today
Superb essay. Tempting me to subscribe to WA.
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Comte Flaneur
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Re: Bordeaux today
Not trying to blow my own trumpet but I have been a lonely voice arguing the same for a while - amid the overwrought nostalgia for 1980s Bordeaux - it’s good to be in such illustrious company
Re: Bordeaux today
Very interesting and well written article. Nevertheless I’m still skeptical, but maybe because we’ve been hearing for 35+ years “the bordelaise have never made better wine”, which WK’s essay debunks… right up until the current vintages that just happen to be for sale.
Sorry to be cynical, but I’ve still never had a Bordeaux from 1995-present that reaches the heights of claret 1990 and older (and it’s really not even close). And we’ve been saying the ‘jury is out’ on these younger vintages for at least 20 years and still no magical transformation had occurred to turn the 96s into another 89 or the 2000s into another 85, etc. I’ve stopped waiting for it happen and that’s fine.
On Berserkers someone reacted to WK’s article by saying the Napafication of Bordeaux continues, and that my take as well. Rooting out pyrazines ‘once and for all’? This is a good thing?!
Sorry to be cynical, but I’ve still never had a Bordeaux from 1995-present that reaches the heights of claret 1990 and older (and it’s really not even close). And we’ve been saying the ‘jury is out’ on these younger vintages for at least 20 years and still no magical transformation had occurred to turn the 96s into another 89 or the 2000s into another 85, etc. I’ve stopped waiting for it happen and that’s fine.
On Berserkers someone reacted to WK’s article by saying the Napafication of Bordeaux continues, and that my take as well. Rooting out pyrazines ‘once and for all’? This is a good thing?!
Re: Bordeaux today
I should add that my skepticism doesn’t mean I think the Bordeaux of today is no good. I still buy it, cellar it and enjoy it (some of it anyways). I just reject/doubt the “best ever” notion and will continue to until my palate tells me otherwise.
For my curmudgeonly old-school palate.
For my curmudgeonly old-school palate.
Last edited by Blanquito on Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JimHow
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Re: Bordeaux today
Some wines may be better today. I uncorked a 2019 Kirwan at a family birthday party last night. It was stunning. Wow, I can’t get over that absolutely stunning rich black/purple color. It was elegant on the palate, very true to the appellation. 95 points, much better than the Kirwans of yesteryear. Maybe 2019 is just something unique. But yes, I don’t taste many wines now that taste like those 1980s wines did in their youth. But from what I’m seeing of the 2019 vintage, from wines like Montrose, Giscours, Kirwan, and others, I’m suddenly optimistic about modern Bordeaux again!
Re: Bordeaux today
I feel in particular the less heralded names are making much better wines now, but perhaps some of that is the better growing conditions now.Comte Flaneur wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:58 pm Not trying to blow my own trumpet but I have been a lonely voice arguing the same for a while - amid the overwrought nostalgia for 1980s Bordeaux - it’s good to be in such illustrious company
Re: Bordeaux today
Guys
I generally avoid arguing as to whether todays wines are better than (say) those from the 80s as the styles of wine now are quite different from recent releases.
It is a reasonable argument to say that wines made from 81 to 90 are the apogee of Bordeaux. Sure there were some poor vintages such as 84 and 87 but that decade was a watershed for Bordeaux after many poor vintages in the post war era. The best Bordeaux I’ve ever had were mainly made during the 80s but it’s a bit unfair to discount more recent decades due to weather changes alone,
Sorry to be argumentative but many of the modern processes followed in Bordeaux referred to in the essay were adopted earlier in Australia - I mean things like micro oxygenation, planting out inter-rows, usage of optical scanners, better control over foliage, etc. Australian wineries have been stuck with extreme conditions for longer and have had to adapt (and times are tough in both).
Of the vintages since 2000 I unreservedly say that 2005 suits my rather old fashioned palate better than say, 2009, 2010, 2015 etc. I reserve judgment for 2016 onwards. 2005 always seemed to offer a nice overlap of traditional wine styles and modern vinification - mkt too much alcohol, balance, fruit intensity and freshness.
The essay would also have benefited from the usage of actual data. There is none to be seen rather than at times sweeping assertions and vague generalisations, when it would not be hard to include real data such as heat summation, rainfall patterns, quantitative data on harvesting dates, volumes and actual changes in viticulture and vinification.
One point I tend to disagree with is the implicit view that all the new technology and experimentation in a time of climate change and market forces has made much better wine. Yes it is more consistent and I totally agree that there are now fewer faulty wines and generally modern wines show richer fruit.
Bordeaux has however been making good wines for hundreds of years without the current level of technology, process control and experimentation. Whether recent vintages will last like older top vintages remains to be seen though I am confident that the wines in better recent vintages will develop well.
Having said that, I still express frustration over alcohol levels - and just as much in relation to Australian wines and other aEuropean regions. There are changes broadly underway to rope in alcohol and some of the changes are the opposite of what this essay suggests is happening in Bordeaux. These include increasing foliage, reducing leaf plucking and shading grapes more, opting for cooler locations (Tasmania in particular), cooler fermentation, usage of less aggressive yeasts and better control of oxidation.
One error made is the reference to Bordeaux as a “marginal” climate other than for recent vintages, Not so. Modern vintages are of course warmer but Bordeaux was warmer (heat summation) than southern aVictoria - Yarra Valley, Gippsland, Mornington Peninsula, Bellarine, Geekong and Macedon even in thec70s and 80s. The Central cause of poor vintages in Bordeaux is more related to rains and particularly storms as the wrong time.
Not sure I agree that homogeneity isn’t an issue. Usage of modern technology alone has not led to sameness but following the same template has in some cases particularly when the same group of consultants cover numerous properties. Yes they have improved process control and reliability but maybe like in many regions, we end up with safe, reliable wines that sometimes lack individually and interest.
Cheers
Mark
I generally avoid arguing as to whether todays wines are better than (say) those from the 80s as the styles of wine now are quite different from recent releases.
It is a reasonable argument to say that wines made from 81 to 90 are the apogee of Bordeaux. Sure there were some poor vintages such as 84 and 87 but that decade was a watershed for Bordeaux after many poor vintages in the post war era. The best Bordeaux I’ve ever had were mainly made during the 80s but it’s a bit unfair to discount more recent decades due to weather changes alone,
Sorry to be argumentative but many of the modern processes followed in Bordeaux referred to in the essay were adopted earlier in Australia - I mean things like micro oxygenation, planting out inter-rows, usage of optical scanners, better control over foliage, etc. Australian wineries have been stuck with extreme conditions for longer and have had to adapt (and times are tough in both).
Of the vintages since 2000 I unreservedly say that 2005 suits my rather old fashioned palate better than say, 2009, 2010, 2015 etc. I reserve judgment for 2016 onwards. 2005 always seemed to offer a nice overlap of traditional wine styles and modern vinification - mkt too much alcohol, balance, fruit intensity and freshness.
The essay would also have benefited from the usage of actual data. There is none to be seen rather than at times sweeping assertions and vague generalisations, when it would not be hard to include real data such as heat summation, rainfall patterns, quantitative data on harvesting dates, volumes and actual changes in viticulture and vinification.
One point I tend to disagree with is the implicit view that all the new technology and experimentation in a time of climate change and market forces has made much better wine. Yes it is more consistent and I totally agree that there are now fewer faulty wines and generally modern wines show richer fruit.
Bordeaux has however been making good wines for hundreds of years without the current level of technology, process control and experimentation. Whether recent vintages will last like older top vintages remains to be seen though I am confident that the wines in better recent vintages will develop well.
Having said that, I still express frustration over alcohol levels - and just as much in relation to Australian wines and other aEuropean regions. There are changes broadly underway to rope in alcohol and some of the changes are the opposite of what this essay suggests is happening in Bordeaux. These include increasing foliage, reducing leaf plucking and shading grapes more, opting for cooler locations (Tasmania in particular), cooler fermentation, usage of less aggressive yeasts and better control of oxidation.
One error made is the reference to Bordeaux as a “marginal” climate other than for recent vintages, Not so. Modern vintages are of course warmer but Bordeaux was warmer (heat summation) than southern aVictoria - Yarra Valley, Gippsland, Mornington Peninsula, Bellarine, Geekong and Macedon even in thec70s and 80s. The Central cause of poor vintages in Bordeaux is more related to rains and particularly storms as the wrong time.
Not sure I agree that homogeneity isn’t an issue. Usage of modern technology alone has not led to sameness but following the same template has in some cases particularly when the same group of consultants cover numerous properties. Yes they have improved process control and reliability but maybe like in many regions, we end up with safe, reliable wines that sometimes lack individually and interest.
Cheers
Mark
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