All things off vintage

[robert goulet]

Just popped the '93 Grand Puy Ducasse for my lady friend as it is her birth year...a lovely wine, def. doesn't have the power of the big vintages, but had all the subtle charms with elegant secondary and tertiary notes...powdered cherry, earth, petrichor and herb notes. Not an intellectual wine but quite classically satisfying

Wish I knew how to post pics

Maybe make this an on-going thread dedicated to off-vintage wines.

[AlexR]

Vintage generalizations are for the intellectually-challenged (writes he who recently shared one-word appraisals on another thread...).

I prefer to call off vintages "politically incorrect" ones, because that's tongue-in-cheek and makes fun of our propensity to oversimplify complicated realities.

*Of course* good and even great wines are made in years with less than ideal weather.
As average or poor wines are made in the darling vintages.

But, like people who refuse to buy second wines of great châteaux, many wine lovers wouldn't dream of buying a 2013, a 2017, etc.
So be it.

The advantage of such years is neverthless twofold:
- They are less expensive (sometimes less than half of the year just after that has good press)
- They usually come around much sooner (OK, not always, such as in vintages where the Merlot doesn't ripen, but these are the exception).

Best regards,
Alex R.

[SF Ed]

It's too loved to truly be an off vintage, but Lisa and I had a 2002 La Mission Haut Brion last night with our Easter lamb.

Its exactly the type of wine that would do poorly at a tasting because it isn't particularly big or powerful, but it was complete, harmonious and ready to drink. Mature but still lively, seamless, yummy. As others have said before, even the top 2002s are ready to drink now.

One of the great advantages of "off" vintages is that they are fully mature much earlier. 1989 Lynch Bages may be a great wine but it is still too closed to fully enjoy 34 years after the vintage. 2002 Latour and La Mish are ready to drink. That has value to me.

SF Ed

[robert goulet]

I would love for the BWE posse to pop any of these 93's that might be resting in their cellar...I really enjoy this vintage

[robert goulet]

It's too loved to truly be an off vintage, but Lisa and I had a 2002 La Mission Haut Brion last night with our Easter lamb.

Its exactly the type of wine that would do poorly at a tasting because it isn't particularly big or powerful, but it was complete, harmonious and ready to drink. Mature but still lively, seamless, yummy. As others have said before, even the top 2002s are ready to drink now.

One of the great advantages of "off" vintages is that they are fully mature much earlier. 1989 Lynch Bages may be a great wine but it is still too closed to fully enjoy 34 years after the vintage. 2002 Latour and La Mish are ready to drink. That has value to me.

SF Ed

At Berns last yr we popped an '02 Haut Brion...still too young
...never indulged in an '89 LB ....but damn, still closed??? Has this wine ever been approachable? Did it open for a short window of time and then enter a dumb phase or has it always been closed down like this?

[Musigny 151]

I had a 1993 La Mission recently which was easily the best wine there. Unusually everybody agreed.

That being said, there are off vintages and off vintages. Weather defines what is possible, the limits of quality.

At the bottom are vintages such as 1977, 1984, 1991, 2013. All dismal; if you find something interesting I would be surprised.

Vintages like 2002, 2004,2007 etc are precisely the kind of wines worth the hunt. Love the unexpectedly good.

[robert goulet]

Vintage generalizations are for the intellectually-challenged (writes he who recently shared one-word appraisals on another thread...).

I prefer to call off vintages "politically incorrect" ones, because that's tongue-in-cheek and makes fun of our propensity to oversimplify complicated realities.

*Of course* good and even great wines are made in years with less than ideal weather.
As average or poor wines are made in the darling vintages.

But, like people who refuse to buy second wines of great châteaux, many wine lovers wouldn't dream of buying a 2013, a 2017, etc.
So be it.

The advantage of such years is neverthless twofold:
- They are less expensive (sometimes less than half of the year just after that has good press)
- They usually come around much sooner (OK, not always, such as in vintages where the Merlot doesn't ripen, but these are the exception).

Best regards,
Alex R.

Very true regarding second wines of a specific château...
I enjoy them...in fact one of the best bordeaux's I've tasted was an '01 Bahans HB 11 years back, crazy classic with all that Graves quarry to bottle transfer...though a recent tasting revealed a wine on a downward trajectory unfortunately.

[AKR]

I think we lump too many years into the category of 'off vintage'; it seems to have encompassed the non drinkable (years where some estate won't release grand vin) to the lighter years, to the merely non collector/investment grade.

[JoelD]

The 93 Haut Brion was awesome in 2021. So subtle and unfurling over the course of the evening. But classic HB. I sourced a bottle after that, might need to crack it this year at the 30 year mark with some other BWEers. But like SF Ed was saying, it's not a wine that would show well in a large tasting. Perfect with a few good bottles on the table and getting to track it over the course of the evening with dinner.

[Blanquito]

One of the most enthralling, magical, beguiling, complex, ethereal bouquets I've ever put my nose to was the 1973 Mouton (circa 2008). The palate couldn't remotely match the bouquet and the whole thing fell apart right before our eyes (and noses and mouths) after about 30-40 minutes of air, but it was truly glorious for those first tens of minutes.

Love your '93 passion, Monsieur Goulet! I can't recall any '93 I've had, except for the Chateau Latour I had in 2007 (which still needed more time!).

Best "off" vintage in the last 45 years, say from the 80, 81, 84, 87, 91, 92, 97, 07 and 13? My fav by far is the 1980 -- I have had only maybe 6-7 chateau from that year (it's one of my local wine buddy's birth year), but they've all been really quite good and the Pichon Lalande has been smashing ever time.

[robert goulet]

The only 2 Mouton I've tasted in the last year has been the '87 and the '91 ....both lovely wines, same as your '93 HB Joel, these are softer, subtler classic expressions, less imposing, but still darlings. I really have come to appreciate these understated styles.

Blanquito, I'll be on the look out for some more '93's....I do have a couple of '92's to check in on.

[robert goulet]

Last year we attended Wine Watch burgundy dinner in Lauderdale....my buddy Brian and I brought a bottle each to share with all the attendees afterwards ...I brought a '76 Petit Village...folks, this was an absolutely smoking quaff, so rustic, iron notes, beef blood, quite nuanced, I've tasted the '82 and the '90 Petit Village that same year....neither bottle was anywhere close to the '76...I think I bought the wine at auction for like $50...insane deal, love finding gems like this.

[Musigny 151]

As buyers of wine, do you buy a great third tier wine from a top vintage such as 2005 Issan or a second tier wine, Lynch Bages, from a lesser vintage such as 2004?

[robert goulet]

As buyers of wine, do you buy a great third tier wine from a top vintage such as 2005 Issan or a second tier wine, Lynch Bages, from a lesser vintage such as 2004?

Both...its academic