The 2010 Fleur Cardinale has been uncorked, and other ramblings....

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri May 05, 2023 11:12 pm

Just awoke from a nap after a busy week....

A crisp 15%, that should wake me up.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri May 05, 2023 11:28 pm

Hmmm. "Crisp" does not seem to be a word I would describe the first sip. But it is early.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Fri May 05, 2023 11:50 pm

Off to Los Angeles this week, need a little R&R before heading back to the opposite side of the continent before a wedding up in the province of Quebec in a couple weeks....

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Sat May 06, 2023 1:06 am

Jim, you have a yak palate?

I'm all in lightyears light wines lately. Tonight is the same, with that flowery mineral light Chiroubles. Drinks easier than Coca Cola, remind me the mountains of yak country by it minerality, and healthier than water...

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat May 06, 2023 1:07 am

2010 Fleur Cardinale: This is a very unexciting wine. The good: The color is a rich deep ruby, quite beautiful. The nose is modest but pleasant. The bad: This is flabby, boring, un-thrilling. No acidity. Hard to imagine how anyone would think this will improve with another five or ten years of aging. Yuck. An alcoholic, Parkerized mess. Australian-like. Rating: 87 points.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat May 06, 2023 1:19 am

Not sure what a"yak palate" is, Nicola.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sat May 06, 2023 1:35 am

stefanJr & Irena returned from putting their boat into the lake just in time to drink some 2016 Cristom Marjorie Vineyard Pinot Noir with us. This is a beautiful vintage for Marjorie and one that Jim would like because it has that Momtazi dustiness. We followed that with 2017 Marjorie, which is lighter and brighter and more red fruited (even candied strawberries) than the 2016. Also a nice wine, and with air time it is developing that lovely dust.

PghMike · Post by **PghMike** » Sat May 06, 2023 1:36 am

Shame. I did enjoy the 2019 quite a bit but the acidity was definitely present.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat May 06, 2023 1:49 am

Boy this wine just got weaker and weaker in the final sips, Mike, it's lucky it survived the lowest score of 85 points on my 85-100 scale. Very, very flabby.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat May 06, 2023 1:52 am

This is a beautiful vintage for Marjorie and one that Jim would like because it has that Momtazi dustiness.

Mmm, when do we get to visit the Oregon estate, Stefan?

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Sat May 06, 2023 1:52 am

The delicate palate of that beautiful beast.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat May 06, 2023 2:03 am

This is nothing like the crazy 16% Tropling Mondot that Jacques and Jill brought to my house a couple summers ago, which was crazy and alcoholic, but certainly not flabby, it was racy and voluptuous, over the top, and thrilling! This Fleur Cardinale was certainly not sensuous or sexy. It was droopy, flabby, a relic of a Parkerized era that is hopefully behind us.

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Sat May 06, 2023 6:02 am

Jim,

I went to see Cellartracker and saw your notes there. The other comments, including from this year, are pretty different.
I wonder why? Perhaps you are into more elegant, understated Bordeaux, which i can certainly relate to.

I have a bottle of this wine, and you make me want to try it soon.

All the best,
Alex

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Sat May 06, 2023 7:40 am

JimH,

Based on CellarTracker reviews, it's a "controversial" vintage. Your bottle was cooked during the transport, or the wine merchant who sold you this wine had not provided good storage.

Caroline Decoster joined the team at FC in January 2012, so she wasn't responsible for making 2010!

She's married to the owner's son, Ludovic Decoster, and she is responsible for many improvements like the new cellar, parcel vinification, etc.

AlexR spent much time during one day at FC 2 or 3 years ago, so he can testify to the rise in quality. Since 2016 vintage FC has been great stuff, and 2022 is the best FC ever made. Caroline and Ludovic are metalheads and go yearly to several heavy rock/metal festivals during vacation, and you can say they are rock star vignerons!

Jay Winton · Post by **Jay Winton** » Sat May 06, 2023 1:21 pm

JimHow wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 1:52 am
This is a beautiful vintage for Marjorie and one that Jim would like because it has that Momtazi dustiness.
Mmm, when do we get to visit the Oregon estate, Stefan?

BWE Oregon!!!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sat May 06, 2023 2:13 pm

I did see those notes on Cellartracker. It may just not be my style of wine.

jckba · Post by **jckba** » Sun May 07, 2023 12:37 am

I bought several cases of the 2010 Fleur Cardinale on release at Total Wine in Norwalk, CT for $36-$38/per btl and while I initially liked it in its youth, I didn’t like the direction it was evolving in and eventually flipped the full cases but do have a bottle or 2 that I saved in the name of science. My drinking experiences over the last 20 years tell me that while modern wines can drink well young, they do not generally age gracefully, and I’ve found this holds true whether Bdx or Burgundy or CdP or whatever else.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Sun May 07, 2023 10:34 am

What surprised me was the 87 point score and the “yuk” descriptor. I tend to score “yuks” in the seventies, and this sounds like a fair place to start. I did not like the wine enough when I tasted it en primeur enough to bother to score it.

Jim, God (well Parker) gave you a 50-100 point scale; you should feel free to use it.

Not a fan of 2010 Right Bank. Even the 2010 Canon, made by traditional winemaker John Kolassa was weighing in at over 15%. The wine had just enough acidity, but I would never have bought it. Magdelaine and VCC are among my favorites. Both managed good wines, but not among their best wines. Only Right Bank I loved was Lafleur; an astonishing effort.

Getting back to Fleur Cardinale; it is not a great terroir, and in a difficult year, you cannot correct the deficiencies in the cellar. I tasted the 2014, and while I was still not a fan, it was better than 2010.

I doubt whether the bottle you had was bad. Acidity doesn’t disappear when badly stored.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Sun May 07, 2023 11:39 am

Fleur Cardinale is the closest neighbor to Valandraud, with similar soil conditions.

It's certainly one of the most improved properties since the 2016 vintage.

robert goulet · Post by **robert goulet** » Sun May 07, 2023 3:05 pm

Can't say I've ever been a fan of this producer.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sun May 07, 2023 8:07 pm

Sounds like a horror show Jim. I wouldn’t touch it with a 30 foot barge pole.

It epitomises every thing not to like about the sort of vulgar Parkerised St Emilions that hopefully are now a thing of the past.

The turnaround at Troplong Mondot has been astonishing, but that estate has great terroir.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun May 07, 2023 8:15 pm

One thing I’m pretty confident about with the 2010 Fleur Cardinale is that I don’t see it getting any better with age. I’ve got one bottle left, I’ll pull it out for some family barbecue this summer with hamburgers, or better yet pawn it off on my lawyer friends at our holiday gathering.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sun May 07, 2023 8:27 pm

Yeah it is one of those wines where you go to a barbecue and you surreptitiously plonk it down on the table with the other wines and hope that nobody could see what you brought.

I palm these kind of wines to my 25 year old daughter and her friends who are less discerning, and these are useful for their ‘pre drinks’ drinks - the higher the abv the better - before they go out because going out in London is so expensive these days, especially for twenty-somethings.

dstgolf · Post by **dstgolf** » Sun May 07, 2023 9:02 pm

Jim,

I had some of these and the 05s in my cellar and not to my liking for sure. Too Californiaesque with Parker heavy handedness all over it. I did much of what Comte describes...serve it to my kids and less discerning guests who seemed to like it.

Not sure what happened to your palate along the way though or bottle Jim because I remembered this post not too far back where you loved this wine and I stayed quiet but here's what you said:

Re: 2019 Fleur Cardinale
Quote
Unread post by JimHow » Tue Feb 14, 2023 6:23 am
I have a couple of the 2010s and a 2014 in my cellar, the last vintage I drank was 2010, it was a stunner. I can imagine the 2019 is great.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun May 07, 2023 9:20 pm

Fair point, Danny, but I think my experience with the 2010 is more akin to Jckba’s. I’m sure I did like this young, and is likely why I bought a couple to cellar. But I just don’t think these wines age well. I’m guessing I’d probably enjoy the 2019, PM’s note looked enticing, but I don’t think I would want to age any. Hopefully, as GBF reports, the style has changed with a new team aboard.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Sun May 07, 2023 9:27 pm

Ha, ha. Good one dstgolf.

Credibility? So the posters at CellarTracker are ignorants, fools, or someone who can't taste.

Never Parker at FC, as Jean-Luc Thunevin has been a consultant at FC for many years.

Check the facts next time please!

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Sun May 07, 2023 9:48 pm

Some day I will be as great as you, GBF, it is what I aspire to.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Sun May 07, 2023 10:01 pm

A household name in Finland and Greenland.

stefan · Post by **stefan** » Sun May 07, 2023 10:06 pm

>>
it is one of those wines where you go to a barbecue and you surreptitiously plonk it down on the table with the other wines and hope that nobody could see what you brought.
>>

When I do that it is often the best wine on the table.

AlexR · Post by **AlexR** » Mon May 08, 2023 5:04 pm

In the name of science, I opened 2010 Fleur Cardinale for lunch, uncorking it four hours before the meal (roast lamb) and decanting it one hour before.

I had hoped to provide a counterpoint to Jim’s impressions, but must admit I have to agree with him.

The wine looked older than its years (my wife guessed it might be a 2005) and had a beautiful plummy nose, which turned out to be its best attribute. It was thick, top-heavy, and noticeably alcoholic on the palate. Knowing this estate’s *recent* vintages fairly well, I was disappointed.

Honestly, today’s Fleur Cardinale is a very different animal and worth investigating.

Ludovic Decoster represents the new generation. He is a details-oriented, innovative, and passionate winemaker. His recent efforts have been very successful.

Alex R.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon May 08, 2023 7:19 pm

I’m guessing I would like the 2019 but would definitely How it.

greatbxfreak · Post by **greatbxfreak** » Mon May 08, 2023 7:38 pm

AlexR,

I would have said both Caroline and Ludovic represent.........

Caroline should have as much recognition for the quality rise.

Ian,

I wish you would stop your inadequate comments about FC. I don't believe you ever tasted just one vintage of it.

Musigny 151 · Post by **Musigny 151** » Mon May 08, 2023 7:54 pm

I see Bordeaux hasn’t taught you any manners.

Blanquito · Post by **Blanquito** » Mon May 08, 2023 9:31 pm

Glad to hear Fleur Cardinale is being taken a new direction. After trying unfortunately numerous bottles of the 03 and 05 FC -- which were amongst the most revolting Bordeaux I've ever tried, and it sounds like the 2010 is still in that same modern over-the-top boozy style of the 03 and 05 -- I utterly gave up on this estate.

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Mon May 08, 2023 9:52 pm

Yeah I was pretty taken aback with the 2010, I do seem to recall positive notes in its youth, and combined with Mike’s recent note on the 2019, I was expecting something nice. But it was as Alex describes.

PghMike · Post by **PghMike** » Tue May 09, 2023 1:11 am

I cant say whether the 2019 will age well but as noted both my wife and I were impressed. I recall good structure and acidity and no heat from the 14.5 percent at all. I'll probably just drink the couple others I have in the next few years anyway.

Comte Flaneur · Post by **Comte Flaneur** » Tue May 09, 2023 10:05 pm

Ian,

I wish you would stop your inadequate comments about FC. I don't believe you ever tasted just one vintage of it.
[/quote]

I am pretty sure I have tried it more than once Izak, but only in walk around tastings. I can’t exactly remember which vintages to be exact but the wine did not leave any impression on me, apart from that of modernity and anonymity…and mediocrity.

But look on the bright side - many St Emilion producers seem to be learning from the error of their past ways, even Angelus and Pavie. As I noted Troplong Mondot is now the wine to buy in St Emilion.

Though I had to laugh when Angelus released their 2022 here straight after Cheval Blanc, as if they are in the same league…like the stunt Angelus pulled by pulling out of the St-Emilion classification straight after Ausone and Cheval Blanc.

Nicklasss · Post by **Nicklasss** » Wed May 10, 2023 12:33 am

If Angelus is considered to Ausone or Cheval Blanc level, does the Emmolo Merlot made by Caymus can be considered at that level too?

Marketing, dream quality equal to bottle price. Is that the new philosophy for Bordeaux red wines?

Jim, can you try the Château Fleur Cardinale Édition Intergalactique for us?

JimHow · Post by **JimHow** » Wed May 10, 2023 1:32 am

Now we are thinking Nicola.
I might try a 2019 Fleur Cardinale if I can find one, I'll bet Mike's assessment is right on.
It just needs to be consumed young, nothing wrong with that.
I've always said that about Barde Haut.
And certainly the young 2003 Pontet Canet was more compelling than what is has turned into 20 years later.

Chateau Vin · Post by **Chateau Vin** » Wed May 10, 2023 5:25 am

Costco is sort of dumping 2019s like crazy these days...

Tried 2019 FC maybe 10 days ago. The guest had popped and poured (I would have given some air). It started out fairly decent on the nose and had some weight on the palate, but I felt didn’t have the legs to go the distance as time progressed. It was not like fell apart or something, but felt a bit thin and light. But definitely not over the top in terms of extraction, oak treatment or jammy for me. Bear in mind, my FC experience was also in conjunction with other wine, Los Pagodas, which we had them side by side.

I think 19 FC was 35 bucks, and for 5 bucks more I enjoyed 19 Pagodas more...