Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

2019 Chateau Montelena: Weak, flaccid, a supermarket wine. Not unpleasant by any means, but, really, they're charging $70+ plus for this? Got it. I think this is a $15 bottle on the local supermarket shelf, a notch above the $12 bottles. Rating: 85 generous points.

2019 Caymus: Why do I buy a bottle of this every year? It is kind of gross, no? Big bad California cabernet, no finesse, no elegance, no nuance, no character, it basically sucks. I'll give it a very generous 87 points, seriously, I paid 80 bucks for THIS? I coulda had 1.5 bottles of Giscours '19 for the same price.

2019 Mondavi Cabernet: I mean, what, this comes in at $40+, smooth, elegant, "Bordeaux-like," a little sweet but nothing offensive... Quite balanced, actually, a nice representation of "California cabernet sauvignon." The clear winner for me among the three, at half the price. Bravo! Nice balance. Rating: 91 points.

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I paid 80 bucks for THIS? I coulda had 1.5 bottles of Giscours '19 for the same price.
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Um. Yeah. Why DO you buy a bottle of Caymus every year? I have not bought one for at least 15 years.

I agree, Jim. There is a boatload of mediocre Cabs coming out of Napa. The thing is, with the 2019 vintage, prices started to skyrocket. I remember paying around 20% less for previous vintages (which I still thought was high). Now, Napa is almost dead to me. As you said about Giscours...what can one buy in Bordeaux for one of these mediocre Napa Cabs? Boy...the possibilities are endless!

Was the Montelena the Estate wine? or was it what used to be called the Calistoga Cuvee, but now marketed without that?

Marvin Shanken really ripped into Mondavi on a WS podcast recently. He said that there are now a 100 wines that are better than their upper tier labels, when a generation ago it wasn't that way. I suppose that's Constellation working their magic....

Not the Estate... mentioned in another thread.

Not the estate. But at $70+ I expect better.

The last good Caymus SS was the ‘92. That’s a looong time ago.

To me Napa is all about the hidden gems and even those rarely last long before they are uncovered and prices rise.

Ish. Tough time.

I feel like the Mondavi brand is the only one doing ok in time.

Caymus is like you say. I remember bringing a 1995 Caymus Cabernet on Friday night at 2001 Chicago convention, and it was the good time, Caymus was good.

The latest versions are kind of fully-crazy-disgusting-sweet-cola concentrated-over the top. Give me Cantemerle anytime.

Where is your sense of patriotism?
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Seriously, though, the notion of value for money is so imoportant.
So why does Bordeaux have the reputation of being expensive?

It's the eternal confusion between the tip of the pyramid and the other 95%.

Alex R.

AlexR wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:37 am Where is your sense of patriotism?
))))))))))))

Seriously, though, the notion of value for money is so imoportant.
So why does Bordeaux have the reputation of being expensive?

It's the eternal confusion between the tip of the pyramid and the other 95%.

Alex R.

It took me a while to realize it, but Alex you’ve been beating the drum for Bordeaux QPR since I’ve known you. Of course back then the $70 Napa wines were only $20, and they weren’t quite as sweet, ripe, and oaky as they are now. I’m overdue for a well-deserved “I told you so” from you.

You’re spot on about the reason Bordeaux has a rep for being pricey. Outside of places like BWE, it’s mostly the top classed growths that get the lion’s share of the attention, and they are pricey.

Blanquito wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:08 am The last good Caymus SS was the ‘92. That’s a looong time ago.

A friend blinded me on the ‘94 Caymus SS when it was first released. I put my nose in the glass and was almost knocked over by a wall of dill. It made enough of an impression that I still distinctly remember it. Ugh! And that was back when I was a lot more of an oakophile than I am now. A total departure from the ‘91 and ‘92, which I really liked.

I had the 97 Caymus sort of recently (not their top cuvee) and it was pretty good actually. Maybe that was before the 'turn the volume up to 11' mode was activated.