Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

Rock and Roll? No.

More related to wine, and inspired by the latest discussion... Reputation and Reality.

Let's say that when you consider red Bordeaux, which Château for your nose/palate/experience has a way better Reputation than is really great (i don't want to see anybody writing LLC ) and which one lower Reputation have in Reality always amazed you?

You can always add one/two choices for each, out of Bordeaux.

Better reputation than what it is: Troplong Mondot
Great reality : La Grave à Pomerol

Out of Bordeaux
Better rep than what it is : Caymus Cabernet Sauvignon.
Great reality : Mas Jullien

Better rep than quality Chateau Margaux
Underrated Issan

Out of Bordeaux. Caymus of course
Underrated Cabernet Calluna

Wrong grape Jouan Clos Saint Denis

And of course we can’t forget Las Cases which like many on the board here would have been the immediate choice.

I would take Las Cases over Barton any day of the week
Young or old

Love d'Issan and du Tertre
My choices

Overrated
Lagrange and GPL

Underrated
Swill that will not be named (popular in College Station, TX)
Cantemerle

Out of Bordeaux

Overrated
Chevillon and Lafarge

Underrated
Domaine de la Vougeraie

Overrated Underrated (both for price; not classification)

Margaux
Overrated
Palmer
Margaux
Underrated
d'Issan
du Tertre

Pauillac
Overrated
Haut-Bages-Libéral
Lynch-Bages

St Estephe
Overrated
Cos-Labory
LLC

St Julien
Overrated
Beychevelle
Talbot
Underrated
Saint-Pierre

Graves
Overrated
La Mission
Haut-Bailly
Laville-Haut-Brion
Underrated
Olivier
de Fieuzal

Haut-Medoc
Overrated
La Tour-Carnet
Underrated
Nameless
Cantemerle

Sauterne/Barsac
Underrated
virtually all except Yquem & Climens

stefan wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:02 pm Overrated Underrated (both for price; not classification)

Bill, am I reading your list correctly in that the first one listed for each appellation is overrated and the second one listed is underrated? And you listed 3 wines from Graves, so which is which there?

Sorry, Joel. It did not format as I wrote it, so I redid my list.

-Most overrated wines in Bordeaux (post-2000):
Cos, LLC, Leoville Poyferre, Pape Clement, Petrus

-Most underrated wines in Bordeaux (post-2000):
d’Issan, Branaire, du Tertre, Lanessan, Ferriere, Gloria
*I would put Lagune here except I remain unconvinced with the wines 2005-present, more or less the same with Cantemerle, but I might be judging the current regime by the brilliant standards they set in the 70’s and 80’s and even the 90’s.

-Most overrated wine outside Bordeaux I would consider buying*:
Ridge Monte Bello**

*There are so many overrated Cali Cabs I would never consider buying at all.
**Monte Bello has never been bad, but in the 30+ times I’ve had it (I’ve had it all ages, but I’ve not had its most famous fully mature vintages) it was only particularly good once (the 89). Ironically, I consider most everything else Ridge makes worthy of its reputation.

stefan wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 6:02 pm Overrated Underrated (both for price; not classification)

Margaux
Overrated
Palmer
Margaux
Underrated
d'Issan
du Tertre

Pauillac
Overrated
Haut-Bages-Libéral
Lynch-Bages

St Estephe
Overrated
Cos-Labory
LLC

St Julien
Overrated
Beychevelle
Talbot
Underrated
Saint-Pierre

Graves
Overrated
La Mission
Haut-Bailly
Laville-Haut-Brion
Underrated
Olivier
de Fieuzal

Haut-Medoc
Overrated
La Tour-Carnet
Underrated
Nameless
Cantemerle

Sauterne/Barsac
Underrated
virtually all except Yquem & Climens

Stefan, great stuff.

The interesting things, Olivier and Fieuzal underrated in Pessac, this is a statement i like, but do i need to get some to check?

The less interesting things, hidding LLC in the overrated St-Estephe...

>>
The interesting things, Olivier and Fieuzal underrated in Pessac, this is a statement i like, but do i need to get some to check?
>>

Actually, Nic, I think that many of the the less exalted Pessac wines are underpriced in comparison to wines from the Medoc. Olivier and Fieuzal are two of the best of those. (Maybe I should say "were" instead of "are" because I rarely drink Bordeaux that is young.)

Gonna have to try Fieuzal…

My non-classified Right Bank pick would be Moulin Saint-Georges in Saint-Emilion. It has ~2500 case production from a 7 hectare vineyard in the heart of Saint Emilion adjacent to Ausone. Made by the same owner and winemaker albeit from a different, lesser, non sloping terroir from across the street. Quite good and flying under the radar and at $35-$50 per btl; it still offers plenty of value.