Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

Drummroll, Yes, yes, yes, it is that time of the year again.

Start thinking about the best candidates.

The greatest award for a wine from Bordeaux, that all Châteaux are highly hoping to get!

I clearly don't have a clue who will do the final decision, as Jim seems to stay away since a few weeks, but we'll make it!

My Bordeaux of the year is 1995 Malescot

Funny I was thinking what would happen for the 2023 woty - kudos Nicolas for taking the initiative. Are you going to decide by diktat or will it be a democratic process?

I miss Jim.

Five star recent releases to date: 2019 Montrose, 2019 Lynch Bages and 2019 Giscours. The Montrose is an absolutely haunting wine: perhaps the best young wine I have ever tasted.

Back vintage favorites to date: 1990 Pichon Baron, 2010 Cantemerle, 2002 Leoville Poyferre

The annual convention coming later this week might provide some clarity. On that note, I wish I could be there....enjoy everyone!

RPCV wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 3:06 pm I miss Jim.

Five star recent releases to date: 2019 Montrose, 2019 Lynch Bages and 2019 Giscours. The Montrose is an absolutely haunting wine: perhaps the best young wine I have ever tasted.

Back vintage favorites to date: 1990 Pichon Baron, 2010 Cantemerle, 2002 Leoville Poyferre

The annual convention coming later this week might provide some clarity. On that note, I wish I could be there....enjoy everyone!

Me too. I'm hoping that after his trial calender quiets down a little we'll hear from him.

The Montrose is killer along with the Giscours

I think that the 2019 Montrose should definitely be in the running. After that we could look at some 2016s as well.

2019 Montrose already showing?

Jim will be back

robert goulet wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:39 pm 2019 Montrose already showing?

Consumed soon after release and yes, magnificent. However, I am sure it will close over the course of the next year or so.

PREVIOUS BWE WINE OF THE YEAR

2000: 1996 Sociando-Mallet
2001: 1989 Lynch-Bages
2002: 1995 d'Yquem
2003: 1999 Haut Brion Blanc
2004: 2000 Pichon Baron and 2000 du Tertre
2005: 2000 Margaux
2006: 2003 Pontet-Canet
2007: 2002 Leoville Poyferre
2008: 2005 Burgundy vintage (protest vote)
2009: 1989 Lafite Rothschild
2010: 2005 Cantemerle
2011: 2008 Leoville Poyferre
2012: 2009 Giscours
2013: 2004 Smith Haut Lafitte
2014: 2010 Chasse Spleen
2015: 2012 Leoville Las Cases
2016: 2012 Barde-Haut
2017: 2014 Calon Segur
2018: 2015 Brane Cantenac
2019: 2016 Tour Saint Christophe
2020: 2016 Leoville Barton and 2008 Dom Perignon
2021: 2014 La Conseillante
2022 : 2016 Grand-Puy Lacoste

I notice that:

- no Montrose, Ducru Beaucaillou, Gruaud Larose, Palmer, Rauzan Ségla, Cos d'Estournel yet...
- no "serious" Saint Émilion ever won...
- only one red Pessac Léognan and one Pomerol won in 23 years...

Anybody had the 2019 Malartic Lagravière? I thougjt that was a very solid, complex, convincing red Pessac.

Montrose and Lynch Bages are also amazing in 2019...

And 2019 d'Issan made a good impression in London.

Nicklasss wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 1:44 am Anybody had the 2019 Malartic Lagravière? I thougjt that was a very solid, complex, convincing red Pessac.

Montrose and Lynch Bages are also amazing in 2019...

And 2019 d'Issan made a good impression in London.

I think the Montrose clearly beat the Lynch right now and probably in the future. I like your idea of the d'issan but I don't remember that standing out in the blind tasting in London personally.

How is Malartic these days? They went over to the dark side and got spoofy from 2005-2012. Might be time to crack a 2015 soon and see what it's all about. Was the 2019 very modern tasting?

If looking for a 2016 to nominate, the Montrose is/was amazing and very close to the 2019. Closed now, though. A very pure and persistent rendition. Personally though, the 2019 is the s**t. Reminds me of the '89 Lynch Bages upon release....haunting.

[/quote]
How is Malartic these days? They went over to the dark side and got spoofy from 2005-2012. Might be time to crack a 2015 soon and see what it's all about. Was the 2019 very modern tasting?
[/quote]

I wonder if that period should read 2005 - 2014 as I had two 14s in the last few months and both were exactly that, spoofy, parkerized, overripe and frankly, awful.

Ianjaig wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:35 pm
I wonder if that period should read 2005 - 2014 as I had two 14s in the last few months and both were exactly that, spoofy, parkerized, overripe and frankly, awful.

Quite possibly. I have not tried the 2014 rouge. Although the white was quite good. The 2000 is still a lovely classic wine. The 2005 is junk, so are 09 and 12 IMO. Curious to see how the 15/16 are but I don't have high hopes.

There may be a few wines to nominate after this weekend's 'conference.'.

2020 Rauzan Segla. Maybe.

I need to protest that 2016 choice

Guys
The best wine I’ve sipped this year is 2020 Ch Canon St Emilion.
Absolute success in 2020 and is my vote for what it is worth. Seriously one of the very best young Bdx I’ve ever tried and seriously I’ve had quite a few. Hic…

If I picked a 2019 it would be Ch Giscours Margaux which was the fav wine over quite a few examples tied over the last year or so.

Further my view since the first WOTY is that is should be a recent vintage that most can access rather than some older wine that is hard to find.

Cheers
Mark

Margaux is very good in 2019

Orlando Bobby luvs the Durfort Vivens

I've been drinking the second label of '19 Prieure Lichine...it's wonderful for the tariff
$39 at Whole Foods

I remember when Prieure Lichine was itself like $30/bottle

marcs wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 5:14 am I remember when Prieure Lichine was itself like $30/bottle

I remember when it was $15. Before your time, you young whippersnapper!

I am going to restate my yearly diatribe in that I think the BWE WOTY should come from the most recent Bordeaux vintage that has come to market and in this case that means the 2020 vintage b/c otherwise I have trouble deciding from what vintage or decade one should be allowed to pick from. As such, suggestions from my end include both of the below which are still reasonably priced given the quality which has been ratcheting up over the past several years and I do think value plays an important factor in this decision and both should provide plenty of pleasure and upside in the years to come:

.2020 Domaine de Chevalier Rouge
.2020 Gruaud Larose

PS my 3rd pick would have been the 2020 GPL as I absolutely loved it and felt like it was closing the gap between it and Lynch but considering it won last year, that might be a little too soon to anoint it again

PS2 no PLL either Nick, but at the $200 bones + that it retails for now a days, the value proposition for it has changed

My vote would be for DDC 2020 - so I second JC’s suggestion.

I hope it is not a 2019 - I thought tasting those 2019s in London was a waste of time - they are big monolithic and a bit fuzzy right now - the 2020s have a lot more focus than the 2019s

The 2020 Calon Segur is fantastic too. The only 2020 i have taste.

jckba wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:08 pm I am going to restate my yearly diatribe in that I think the BWE WOTY should come from the most recent Bordeaux vintage that has come to market and in this case that means the 2020 vintage b/c otherwise I have trouble deciding from what vintage or decade one should be allowed to pick from. As such, suggestions from my end include both of the below which are still reasonably priced given the quality which has been ratcheting up over the past several years and I do think value plays an important factor in this decision and both should provide plenty of pleasure and upside in the years to come:

I think this is a fair suggestion in general (obviously with some exceptions when the vintage isn't that great, or when wines from recent-ish vintages really start to show something that we didn't catch onto before.

I have neither bought nor tried a single bottle of the 2020 though so I can't vote on this but I do agree with the idea in principle. Maybe I need to go find a bottle of the 2020 DDC and crack one in the name of science. Is it still open and not closed down yet?

JC, I hear you and understand where you're coming from.

From my perspective, selection of wines that have been in the market for a while makes sense for BWE. It's part BWE's BWE-ness. We're more a fraternity of Bordeaux lovers/drinkers than a group that offers buying advice or critical analysis. Of course, we do that too. But our WOTY picks are often wines that have special meaning to a significant number of members, either from shared tastings or a particular event or visit where the wine figured prominently, even if it wasn't the "best" bottle there. From that perspective, it's too early for a 2020 to be a BWE WOTY. Picking a winner from the 2020 vintage seems more of a thing for the Wine Spectator, Vinous, Wine Advocate, and other critics.

I hear you too David yet we seem to go from years where we do go by the newest vintage coming to market like in 2006 -> 03 Pontet Canet, 2008 -> protest vote, 2011 -> 2008 Leoville Poyferre, 2012 -> 09 Giscours, 2015 -> 12 LLC, 2017 -> 14 Calon Segur, 2018 -> 15 Brane Cantenac, 2019 -> 16 Tour Saint Christophe and then others where we do something else. I think I would just prefer for the WOTY selection to be more consistent in its nature versus saying anything goes. And I am really just trying to establish an agreed upon ground rules so we are all approaching this selection in a similar manner.

Agree on the facts JC. Selection process has been whimsical.

I do think that the BWE WOTY should be a wine that is readily available on a broad basis. And for me, that means a fairly recent vintage - perhaps the past 3 or 4 vintages that have been released. For example, I know I can still purchase many 2018s without a lot of searching.

It's hard to fully agree with both sides of a debate but I think that both JC's and David's points are well thought out.

Given the fact that last year had a 2016 as the WOTY and the year before that a 2014, we skipped 2019 (partially because a lot of people hadn't received theirs or tried them yet)

I think 2019 Montrose is the choice that should meet in the middle of what most want. We can always do a 2020 next year once more people have had time to try them and weigh in.

JoelD wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:01 pm I think 2019 Montrose is the choice that should meet in the middle of what most want. We can always do a 2020 next year once more people have had time to try them and weigh in.

When is this going to be formalized? Only asking because I figured some of us might like to pick up a bottle or six before the rest of the wonderful World Wide Web hears about it and hikes the price.

If it is a significative wine for BWE, why not go with the 1975 Petrus?

I guess that wine, generously offered by Comte Flaneur earlier this year, in 3 liters format, has surely marked forever the minds of BWEers.

Of course, not as affordable or available as some 2018-2019-2020 red Bordeaux, but deserves the "most noticeable desirable candidate ever" BWE award? Co-winner with the 1947 Cheval Blanc graciously offered by sdr in February?

JoelD wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:01 pm I think 2019 Montrose is the choice that should meet in the middle of what most want. We can always do a 2020 next year once more people have had time to try them and weigh in.

I like Montrose so this is going to be a tough one to rebut so I might start out by saying that the ‘14, ‘16, ‘19 and ‘20 are all viable candidates as this estate has been producing wines at a level equivalent to a de facto 1st growth for quite some time now.

‘14 and ‘19 may get some points from a pricing standpoint as both were significantly cheaper on release than either the ‘16 or ‘20 but with that said, both are now more expensive so it would kind of be like be anointing either of those after the fact.

Another tidbit worthy of consideration might be AbV as that was 14.4% in ‘19 vintage and a full percentage point less at 13.4% in ‘20.

And I will leave you with this very real possibility, if in 15 or 20 years time the ‘16 or ‘20 turns out to be the best Montrose ever, how will you feel if you awarded the WOTY honors to the more solar ‘19?

jckba wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:01 pm

JoelD wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 9:01 pm I think 2019 Montrose is the choice that should meet in the middle of what most want. We can always do a 2020 next year once more people have had time to try them and weigh in.

I like Montrose so this is going to be a tough one to rebut so I might start out by saying that the ‘14, ‘16, ‘19 and ‘20 are all viable candidates as this estate has been producing wines at a level equivalent to a de facto 1st growth for quite some time now.

‘14 and ‘19 may get some points from a pricing standpoint as both were significantly cheaper on release than either the ‘16 or ‘20 but with that said, both are now more expensive so it would kind of be like be anointing either of those after the fact.

Another tidbit worthy of consideration might be AbV as that was 14.4% in ‘19 vintage and a full percentage point less at 13.4% in ‘20.

And I will leave you with this very real possibility, if in 15 or 20 years time the ‘16 or ‘20 turns out to be the best Montrose ever, how will you feel if you awarded the WOTY honors to the more solar ‘19?

All fair points. (Although I truly believe that ABV levels in some 2018 and 2019 red Bordeaux were seriously inflated on the label due to tariff reasons, the 19's didn't show that heat to me and I'm quite sensitive to it)

I would actually be quite happy with the 2014 or 2016 Montrose being voted in for this year. They are both amazing wines. I was just trying to reach a balancing act from what you wanted (voting on the current release) vs what is generally done every year which is usually some semi random, recent ish vintage. With a few exceptions of course.

Also I don't think many on here have tried the 2020's, including myself. Haven't touched a single one. So that's my thought process here. Like I said, we could very easily put a 2020 on next years or the year's after.

Since I have not tasted even one 2020 Bordeaux yet, I can’t be of any help in choosing a wine of the year from that vintage. In general, think I would prefer to have the wine of the year be from a relatively recent vintage that many have been able to taste and is still generally available in the market now.

Chris Bublitz

Winona Chief wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:16 pm Since I have not tasted even one 2020 Bordeaux yet, I can’t be of any help in choosing a wine of the year from that vintage. In general, think I would prefer to have the wine of the year be from a relatively recent vintage that many have been able to taste and is still generally available in the market now.

Chris Bublitz

Chris
If a 2020 is to be awarded the prize I really suggest Ch Canon St Emilion. Wonderful wine.

A few comments about 2019 I tend to agree with. I have tried quite a few and they seem to have shut down this year and are best forgotten for some years. However they are promising and are worth buying - but maybe 2020 will be more fun in a decade or two.

Cheers
Mark

I think in Jim's absence we should pick something outrageous, just to see if he swoops in with a BD edict at the last minute.

Maybe Meiomi Pinot Noir - that's about as anti-BWE as you can get.

DavidG wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2023 8:29 pm I think in Jim's absence we should pick something outrageous, just to see if he swoops in with a BD edict at the last minute.

Maybe Meiomi Pinot Noir - that's about as anti-BWE as you can get.

Or a pre-1996 GPL?