Bordeaux Wine Enthusiasts

I bought a lot of 2005s. They are all over the place. This one is not a wine for drinking. This is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

2005 Bellevue Mondotte: Cellared since release, perfect cork and fill. Pop and pour, sampled over 4 hours.

This has gone from “feh” a couple of years ago to “yuck” today. Plenty of fruit, tannin, and acid, lots of extraction. The best thing I can say about it is that there’s enough acid to keep it from being flabby. Overripe, raisiny, objectionable levels of volatile acidity. It would be better if the finish was shorter. It’s just getting gloopier with age. A paen to prodigious Parkerization. Poor. One more bottle left to suffer through. Or give away? It appears that there are people who like this.

Maybe cook with it

This is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

Did you mean forever?

David,

That's too bad but seems not unexpected from this maybe over hyped vintage. There have been quite a few winners but others like you say have been undrinkable. We thoroughly enjoyed a Duhart Milon recently and it has been been consistently Lafite like for several years but still in its juvenile stage. Pavie Macquin on the other hand is like you describe for the Bellevue and I don't think that this will ever come around. Unfortunately after our visit there in 05 and tasting the barrel sample which was certainly hard to judge what this would be like but after the ratings came out I bought a case on futures with 6 coming from the LCBO(Ontario) and 6 from the SAQ(Quebec). There is a noticeable difference between the two with both having different capsules, negotiant and taste quite different. There had been some discussion a while back claiming the shipment to Ontario was heat damaged and I certainly think this is the most likely explanation for the difference. Problem is the LCBO has stopped standing behind their products unlike the past where they had one of the best return policies anywhere and now they stick with a 30 limit on returns which does nothing for the collector buying tainted bottles and putting them away for 20+ years. Apart from my age, a full cellar and health this is another reason to avoid buying anything but drink me now wines going forward.

My experience with 2005 has been that the left banks are good but slow to come around but the right bank is very spotty. My two right bank holdings from 2005 are Conseillante and Figeac, we'll see how those turn out. Conseillante has been very good in the past but I haven't tried Figeac.

We've drunk three 2005s recently, all of which were good or better: Coufran, Pedescleaux, and D'Armailhac. I was surprised at how good Pedescleaux is. D'Armailhac is fuller and but not better overall for drinking now. Best to drink Pedescleaux now and hold D'Armailhac a bit longer.

Danny, I don't think these were heat damaged, but anything’s possible. I think this is just a hot, overripe over extracted mess.

Marcs and Stefan, I agree - been pretty happy with most 2005 left bankers I’ve opened. Not sure they all lived up to the hype but no regrefs.

A lot of misses on the right bank though. None have been as bad as the Bellevue Mondotte, and some are very good if not Bordeaux-like. I liked 2005 Larcis Ducasse but it’s modern and a dead ringer for a Napa cab. The 2005 Clinet was excellent a couple of years ago, also very ripe and lush. I have some 2005 Pavie that I’ve been afraid to try. It scares me every time I look at it. Gonna have to buck up and open one.

Bellvue Mondotte is Gerard Perse made just like Pavie and in 2005 both received the magical 3 digit score from Parker’s Richter scale, so why don’t you instead try to sell or consign them as they do have value to others. And then you can plug the dollars into something that won’t make you cringe when you come across it.

Had an excellent 2005 Château Destieux last night. Will report separately.

jckba wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:21 pm Bellvue Mondotte is Gerard Perse made just like Pavie and in 2005 both received the magical 3 digit score from Parker’s Richter scale, so why don’t you instead try to sell or consign them as they do have value to others. And then you can plug the dollars into something that won’t make you cringe when you come across it.

Good point JC. I'll put them aside for whenever I get around to sending a batch off to auction.

Next up... 2005 Pavie!

DavidG wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:58 pm

jckba wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:21 pm Bellvue Mondotte is Gerard Perse made just like Pavie and in 2005 both received the magical 3 digit score from Parker’s Richter scale, so why don’t you instead try to sell or consign them as they do have value to others. And then you can plug the dollars into something that won’t make you cringe when you come across it.

Good point JC. I'll put them aside for whenever I get around to sending a batch off to auction.

Next up... 2005 Pavie!

I'll be curious to hear how that Pavie turns out. The BM sounds like a mess. I had a few bottles of 05 Pavie that I truly enjoyed but that was a few years ago and my palate has certainly evolved since then. Plus the wine seemed like it might be falling off. I've been slowly selling off my whole stash of it. But keeping a couple bottles in case I get reports that it's coming back around.

Opened the 2005 Pavie a couple of nights ago. Here's the note as promised:


2005 Pavie: Going through some 2005 right bankers. Was overwhelmingly disappointed by the Bellevue-Mondotte and thought I'd better check in on the Pavie. Cellared since release. Pop and pour, drunk over 2 days.

Dark purple to rim. Intense nose of ripe dark red fruits, coffee, plums. Huge on the palate with layers of very ripe fruit with some hints of raisins, tons of acid and tannin, this is hugely extracted and "high-toned" but does not show any overt volatile acidity like the Bellevue-Mondotte did. No alcoholic heat. Both wines threw a huge deposit. Palate is fully coated, finish is long and lush.

So this is hyper-modern and a cocktail wine which will turn off classic Bordeaux lovers but I enjoyed it and even had some with a heavily prepped grilled salmon on day 2 with great success. My wife loved it. I think it has decades to go but not sure it will actually improve or become complex. Excellent now for when I'm in the mood for this style. Why wait and risk its falling apart?

Thanks for the notes David. I guess these two wines aren't for me. Never had them, don't own any.

Very concentrated Bordeaux is kind of a dangerous bet. Bordeaux is recognized for "claret" balanced and complex wines. Gloopier or hyper-modern in comments about wines are a bit turn off to me.

DavidG wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:38 pm Opened the 2005 Pavie a couple of nights ago. Here's the note as promised:


2005 Pavie: Going through some 2005 right bankers. Was overwhelmingly disappointed by the Bellevue-Mondotte and thought I'd better check in on the Pavie. Cellared since release. Pop and pour, drunk over 2 days.

Dark purple to rim. Intense nose of ripe dark red fruits, coffee, plums. Huge on the palate with layers of very ripe fruit with some hints of raisins, tons of acid and tannin, this is hugely extracted and "high-toned" but does not show any overt volatile acidity like the Bellevue-Mondotte did. No alcoholic heat. Both wines threw a huge deposit. Palate is fully coated, finish is long and lush.

So this is hyper-modern and a cocktail wine which will turn off classic Bordeaux lovers but I enjoyed it and even had some with a heavily prepped grilled salmon on day 2 with great success. My wife loved it. I think it has decades to go but not sure it will actually improve or become complex. Excellent now for when I'm in the mood for this style. Why wait and risk its falling apart?

Sounds Napa in the extreme. Like I say exactly this stuff in my head about Napa wines all the time. Especially “why age?”

DavidG wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 10:38 pm Opened the 2005 Pavie a couple of nights ago. Here's the note as promised:


2005 Pavie: Going through some 2005 right bankers. Was overwhelmingly disappointed by the Bellevue-Mondotte and thought I'd better check in on the Pavie. Cellared since release. Pop and pour, drunk over 2 days.

Dark purple to rim. Intense nose of ripe dark red fruits, coffee, plums. Huge on the palate with layers of very ripe fruit with some hints of raisins, tons of acid and tannin, this is hugely extracted and "high-toned" but does not show any overt volatile acidity like the Bellevue-Mondotte did. No alcoholic heat. Both wines threw a huge deposit. Palate is fully coated, finish is long and lush.

So this is hyper-modern and a cocktail wine which will turn off classic Bordeaux lovers but I enjoyed it and even had some with a heavily prepped grilled salmon on day 2 with great success. My wife loved it. I think it has decades to go but not sure it will actually improve or become complex. Excellent now for when I'm in the mood for this style. Why wait and risk its falling apart?

This matches my experiences with the wine. Clearly a wine with great terroir from a great vintage even though they tried so hard to screw it up. Parker called it a 100 year wine, which makes me think it will have trouble reaching age 25.

I'll say this though, one of my all time favorite pairings is 05 Pavie with a reverse seared bone in ribeye. Perfect match. I make a great one, but it really doesn't seem to go with the classically style aged Bordeaux that many of us love.

Marcus, I'd say it's a better version than a lot of Napa in the same style, but worse than the classically made Napa like Togni, Ridge, Dunn etc.

DavidG wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:56 am I bought a lot of 2005s. They are all over the place. This one is not a wine for drinking. This is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

2005 Bellevue Mondotte: Cellared since release, perfect cork and fill. Pop and pour, sampled over 4 hours.

This has gone from “feh” a couple of years ago to “yuck” today. Plenty of fruit, tannin, and acid, lots of extraction. The best thing I can say about it is that there’s enough acid to keep it from being flabby. Overripe, raisiny, objectionable levels of volatile acidity. It would be better if the finish was shorter. It’s just getting gloopier with age. A paen to prodigious Parkerization. Poor. One more bottle left to suffer through. Or give away? It appears that there are people who like this.

Couldn’t agree more - had this a few years ago (thankfully my last bottle). Sort of like a botched plastic surgery if you ask me - it was manipulated to come off a certain way (sexy), couldn’t pull it off, and just leaves one disappointed.