2005 Bordeaux revisited.

[greatbxfreak]

A few weeks ago, I had a chance to taste some 12 wines from this very acclaimed vintage. Since tasting from the barrel in March/April 2006, I haven’t had that many wines from 2005. Still, I remember clearly mind-boggling appearances of Lafite, Latour, Mouton Rothschild, Montrose and Tertre Roteboeuf in the last 15 years. Please look at my website for information about weather conditions in 2005.

Order of tasting:

Haut Bages Liberal - fine cherry aroma on the nose, a well-balanced palate, and nice acidity. This commercially styled wine has a lovely structure and a lingering finish. It's quite enjoyable now. 91p.

D’Armailhac – there are notes of graphite, ink, cedar, and blackcurrants on the nose. The palate is potent, with a strong structure and backbone. It is currently backward and closed, so it needs several more years to soften. 93p.

St. Pierre - on the nose, black cherry notes mingle with hints of cedar and leather. The palate reveals a fine structure, depth, and length of wine boasting silky berries and grained tannins. This wine is both seductive and elegant. Delicious now and in the next 10 years. 93p.

Lagrange is a nicely crafted wine with a light body and flavors of raspberries and cherries. It's nicely structured and has a delicate palate with a fruity, delicious, and charming finish. A bit lightweight. Rated at 90 points.

Talbot - this wine has a strong and delightful aroma, with black cherry notes and hints of roasted bacon and black winter truffle. On the palate, it tastes juicy, meaty, and well-balanced, with great complexity and a solid mid-palate. It is slightly rustic but well-balanced overall, and the finish is long-lasting. Long life span here! 94-95p.

Langoa Barton is an elegant and stylish wine with silky berries, grained tannin, and a delightful structure, leaving a lingering finish, and providing a similar experience to the bottle enjoyed in June 2022. 93p.

Lascombes - on the nose, there are creamy and aromatic black cherries. The wine is lively, cheerful, and full of sweet fruit with silky tannins. It has a delicate mid-palate, structure, length, and stylish elegance. It's a very tempting wine that scores 95 points and has provided an identical performance all five times I tasted it!

Giscours – potent, intense nose of blackcurrants, blackberries, and some cedar. It is well-structured on the palate with fine intensity, complexity, and length. Well-balanced and with a fine midpalate. It will certainly improve with further cellaring. 93p.

Cantenac Brown has an aromatic black fruit nose, crunchy blackcurrants, and cherries on the palate. The wine is elegant, has a lovely balance with a nice length, and is well-knitted. Modern style. 92p.

La Croix St. Georges Pomerol – finely scented nose of truffles, black cherries, cocoa, and dark chocolate. Lively and well-structured on the palate, with fine midpalate, silky fruit and tannin, fine complexity and balance, and a lingering finish. A delicious “greeting” from Pomerol! 94+p.

Latour-A-Pomerol – fruit drops on the nose, offering an elegant and well-proportioned wine with tasty fruit and ripe tannins. It's a bit lightweight for my taste, but this wine has a nice future ahead. 91p.

Domaine de Chevalier - a catchy and aromatic nose of black cherries with additional tobacco and leather notes, delicate sweetness on the palate with silky berries and grained tannin, refined elegance, and finesse. A very seductive wine. 93p.

[JimHow]

Nice. I think all of my 2005s are gone. Sounds like they are balanced at the 19 year mark, I was concerned about the acidity, or lack thereof, of several wines I had like Brane Cantenac and Grand Mayne. Is 2005 a left bank vintage, right bank vintage, or both?

[Ognik]

"Nice. I think all of my 2005s are gone"


Reason why you'll vote Trump i guess.
Such a pity.
So less of everything there.

Didn't touch any of my 05 yet.
But.......beeing a european.

Sipping my 78 Giscours tonight.

[JimHow]

Ha ha, I promise I’m not voting for Orange Head, Ognik.
I had a chance to buy cases and cases of 2005 Lafite at low tax-free prices and I passed. I think I’m going to be sipping a 2019 tonight….

[greatbxfreak]

JIm,

It's equal on both banks. Whites both in dry and sweet version are great.

It is also the first vintage Bordeaux winemakers began thinking more and more about phenolic ripeness.

Imho, 2010 vintage outdoes the 2005, but the latter is more than useful.

[barsacpinci]

Sipping my 78 Giscours tonight.

Tell me about that 78 Giscours. I'm planning to do a Giscours vertical and that would be the oldest vintage I have. I wasn't sure it would be any good.

[Comte Flaneur]

I had a 1978 Giscours a few months ago. It was superb, nearly as good as the 1976 La Lagune we had this evening, but close to the end of its drinking window.

Thanks for your notes on the 2005s Izak…a helpful update and snapshot.

[Comte Flaneur]

Nice. I think all of my 2005s are gone. Sounds like they are balanced at the 19 year mark, I was concerned about the acidity, or lack thereof, of several wines I had like Brane Cantenac and Grand Mayne. Is 2005 a left bank vintage, right bank vintage, or both?

I have barely started on my mine, Jim.

My favourite 2005s so far are left banks: Gruaud, Duhart and Beychevelle, in that order.

But it is not a vintage that I love, or think is as good as say 2009 or 2010, but one should definitely should have some representation in one’s cellar.

[stefan]

That is a nice cross section of quality Bordeaux that usually mature earlier than many other fine clarets. My 2005 D’Armailhac, stored at 62-64F since release, has drunk well with steak for some time. So it should not be long until yours opens.

[Ognik]

Not sure if 05 will ever come around.

A "lost" vintage if you dare.

78 Giscours performed well, ts and cork in good condition, but none to keeper any longer, drink now.
No reason to decant, cellarcold, just pull the cork, give it some air and enjoy.
3 more to go.
@ jim
Don't like redhead either.
@ comte 76 Lagune
82 Lagune is better, but....
Sold mine.
78 Giscours ist better still.

[Comte Flaneur]

I am still a 2005 optimist and I put my money where my mouth is. My portfolio is very left bank biased, though:

12 x Pichon Baron - best of the super seconds in 2005? And actually another favourite
12 x Gruaud - from three separate purchases
12 x Belair - apparently this has been drinking well for quite some time
12 x Clos Du Marquis - must be there or thereabouts?
12 x Sociando - my favourite ever ‘young’ SM - I wonder how it has evolved? Anyone?
10 x La Conseillante - pretty backward
6 x Latour
6 x Beychevelle
4 x Duhart Milon
3 x Branaire Ducru
3 x Beauregard
1 x LTHB (last ever vintage thereof)

[JimHow]

Oh that's right, what am I talking about, I have an unopened case of 2005 Duhart Milon.

[Comte Flaneur]

2005 Duhart should be right up your strasse Jim

[JimHow]

Mmm doggie.

[Nicklasss]

2005 Duhart Milon. WoW!

And for Comte, I guess Latour will be ready after Keith Richards death, so in 50 more years.

[RPCV]

“Lagrange is a nicely crafted wine with a light body and flavors of raspberries and cherries. It's nicely structured and has a delicate palate with a fruity, delicious, and charming finish. A bit lightweight. Rated at 90 points.”

Making my point again from an earlier thread that Lagrange is very conservative. An opportunity to make a great wine and……Looking at the comparatives from the same commune…I mean really?

[jckba]

Making my point again from an earlier thread that Lagrange is very conservative. An opportunity to make a great wine and……Looking at the comparatives from the same commune…I mean really?

And remaking my point from that same thread that I think your opinion is a little dated; 2016 to present is a different Lagrange.

[RPCV]

Totally fair. The ‘16 is quite good and the ‘19 better. Hope this trend holds. I have not tried the ‘20. Don’t get me wrong…. big fan…just would have liked to have seen a more risk/reward attitude toward the better past vintages where I have more experience.

[Comte Flaneur]

2005 Duhart Milon. WoW!

And for Comte, I guess Latour will be ready after Keith Richards death, so in 50 more years.

Yes Nic I think the 2005 Latour will at least live as long as Keith Richards

This is the earliest known picture of Keith Richards

[Comte Flaneur]

Totally fair. The ‘16 is quite good and the ‘19 better. Hope this trend holds. I have not tried the ‘20. Don’t get me wrong…. big fan…just would have liked to have seen a more risk/reward attitude toward the better past vintages where I have more experience.

The 2019 St-Pierre and Gloria are supposed to top drawer. I concur with that view. Anyone else tried them?
Or 2016 Gazin?
When I was tasting at a Decanter event back in November they were three wines I gave +4 to on a scale of -4 to +4. They were the real stand outs.

[JimHow]

Yes Ian I tried the 2019 Gloria, loved it, and bought six more bottles. I think I’m going to get some more 2019s in my cellar, I’ve got about 110 bottles from the vintage, I think I need more.

[RPCV]

The '19 Gloria is indeed top drawer as is the Branaire Ducru. 2019 is the real deal in St. Julien.

[DavidG]

I went long (for me) on 2005s and have about half of them left. It was the last year I bought based heavily on Parker reviews. I was a slow learner.

Early hype gave way to concerns for excessive extraction. I drank a lot of the lesser ones and a few of the bigger names at 10-15 years. The overextraction worries were on target for a fair number of the wines. Many St Emilions were too much to even be good cocktail wines. The left bank wines I've tried are more promising, but still need time.

Still holding the likes of Angelus, Clinet, Ducru, Haut Bailly, Palmer, Pape Clement, Pavie, Pichon Baron, Pontet Canet, Talbot, Trotanoy.

[Nicklasss]

Coming back to GBF original post, and some comments made on 2005 Lagrange, i do think that this is a good Lagrange, but in terme of the vintage, a pretty weak effort. I would have imagined the 2005 Lagrange being more concentrated, a bit more ripe, complex and long.

[greatbxfreak]

DavidG,

I am sorry, but I think you are wrong on the excessive extraction, as there was no need to do it in 2005.

Parker retired several years ago. Last year, it was another person at the helm of WA.

[stefan]

Um, Izak, you yourself wrote about 2005:

"Even if nature has given Bordeaux's winemakers raw material of heavenly quality, some chose to improve the final result by over-extraction."

[greatbxfreak]

Stefan,

Yes, I did, but it was meant as "some", meaning a minority of winemakers and lower-classified wines.

I remember the manager at L'Evangile telling me that any winemaker who failed to produce a good wine in 2005 should consider finding another job and not as winemaker!

[DavidG]

GBF, I’m not sure what your point is about Parker and the WA. He was still writing the WA Bordeaux reviews when 2005s were bottled. That was at a point when a lot of folks were saying his palate had turned. Nevertheless, I bought a number of 2005s that he extolled in prose and rated highly (97-100 points) that ended up as hot messes.

One man’s over-extraction may be another’s perfection, so rather than argue I’ll concede that my opinion may not be universal. But I’ll stand by my opinion that many 2005s, particularly in St. Emilion, were over-extracted.

Here’s one example that is the poster child for over-extraction:

2005 Bellevue Mondot

A Parker 99-pointer on release, he upgraded it to 100 points and wrote this about it in 2015:

Made up of 90% Merlot and 10% Cabernet Franc, the opaque bluish/purple 2005 from Bellevue-Mondotte offers amazing chocolate espresso notes along with blueberry and blackberry liqueur, some incense and a hint of flowers. Full-bodied and staggeringly concentrated, this blockbuster wine (in a blockbuster vintage) is unreal. Talk about a wine that is beyond belief – this is a great achievement from Chantal and Gérard Perse. Drink it over the next 25-30 years. Sadly, there were only 340 or so cases produced.

Here’s my TN from December 2023:
2005 Bellevue Mondot - This has gone from “feh” a couple of years ago to “yuck” today. Plenty of fruit, tannin, and acid, lots of extraction. The best thing I can say about it is that there’s enough acid to keep it from being flabby. Overripe, raisiny, objectionable levels of volatile acidity. It would be better if the finish was shorter. It’s just getting gloopier with age. A paean to prodigious Parkerization. Poor. One more bottle left to suffer through. Or give away? It appears that there are people who like this.

I wonder if you’ve tried it, and if so what you think?

[greatbxfreak]

DavidG,

I am not certain if I have tasted Bellevue Mondotte 2005, but the Pavie 2005 from the barrel was similar to your description of BM. However, Pavie Decesse 2005 did not have the same characteristics.

Their style changed starting from 2014, with much less oak and no over-extraction. However, I stopped visiting them since 2019 because they did not respond to my requests for tastings. Additionally, they had previously informed me that I would have to pay for tasting other vintages.

[JimHow]

What are your thoughts on Pavie Macquin these days, Izak?
We were so impressed with our visit there in October, the wines seemed beautiful.
I enjoyed the 2021 as well at the UGC Montreal.

[robert goulet]

I went long (for me) on 2005s and have about half of them left. It was the last year I bought based heavily on Parker reviews. I was a slow learner.

Early hype gave way to concerns for excessive extraction. I drank a lot of the lesser ones and a few of the bigger names at 10-15 years. The overextraction worries were on target for a fair number of the wines. Many St Emilions were too much to even be good cocktail wines. The left bank wines I've tried are more promising, but still need time.

Still holding the likes of Angelus, Clinet, Ducru, Haut Bailly, Palmer, Pape Clement, Pavie, Pichon Baron, Pontet Canet, Talbot, Trotanoy.

Speaking of heavy over extracted wines from 2005 that' was definitely the case with SHL. Early on I found a barely drinkable, not sure how it's evolved, but I felt the '04 destroyed.

[Comte Flaneur]

You could even argue that Leoville Barton 2005 is (heavily?) over-extracted, or if not, a bit hot, bothered and unbalanced; - and not as nice as other lesser vintages like 2004 - that at least is based on my limited experience

With respect to the 2005 vintage we should recognise it was a hot vintage and the wines were naturally powerful especially in the core mid-palate. So that tendency did not need enhancing, but it was peak Parker after all.

In my experience at least two of the so-called first growths were guilty of over-extracting - Pavie and Angelus - so it was not just confined to the lesser wines. I have limited experiences of the 1855 first growths so really could not comment on them, apart from Mouton being a tannic brute.

[greatbxfreak]

Ian,

In 2005, Lafite is a total beauty, followed by Latour and Mouton R. Although I don't remember Mouton R being a tannic monster in 2005. It's been a while since I tasted these three 1st growths, the last time being in May 2008.

Angelus wasn't as extracted in 2005 but nowadays it has become a kind of lamb wine, thanks to Stephanie de Bouard-Rivoal.

Cos d'Estournel was also quite extracted in 2005.

[DavidG]

GBF, I hope you are correct about 2005 Angelus. That’s one I’m holding but have yet to try. I should crack one. CT notes suggest to me it’s very “modern.” I’m not seeing a lot of suggestions about over-extraction. Though the most recent says it’s shut down and very oaky.

What do you mean by “a lamb wine?”

[Comte Flaneur]

2005 Angelus, RMP note

Truly great stuff, this wine performed at a three-digit level both in the horizontal tasting of 2005s in Baltimore, as well as in Montreal at this mini-vertical. This sensational, opaque, bluish/purple wine offers up notes of vanillin, spring flowers, blueberry and blackberry liqueur, plus a touch of licorice. The wine hits the palate with a thunderous cascade of ripe, rich, concentrated fruit. It is full-bodied, multidimensional and layered. The tannins are beautifully integrated but still present, and the wood, acidity, alcohol, etc., are all beautifully assimilated in this magnificent, majestic vintage of Angelus. It can be drunk now, but it is still an adolescent and that suggests it has at least another 25-35 years of longevity.

100
Robert Parker, Wine Advocate (220), August 2015

“The wine hits the palate with a thunderous cascade of ripe, rich, concentrated fruit” - RMP

[robert goulet]

2005 Angelus, RMP note

Truly great stuff, this wine performed at a three-digit level both in the horizontal tasting of 2005s in Baltimore, as well as in Montreal at this mini-vertical. This sensational, opaque, bluish/purple wine offers up notes of vanillin, spring flowers, blueberry and blackberry liqueur, plus a touch of licorice. The wine hits the palate with a thunderous cascade of ripe, rich, concentrated fruit. It is full-bodied, multidimensional and layered. The tannins are beautifully integrated but still present, and the wood, acidity, alcohol, etc., are all beautifully assimilated in this magnificent, majestic vintage of Angelus. It can be drunk now, but it is still an adolescent and that suggests it has at least another 25-35 years of longevity.

100
Robert Parker, Wine Advocate (220), August 2015

“The wine hits the palate with a thunderous cascade of ripe, rich, concentrated fruit” - RMP

Yeeeesh ...That would be a pass for me....thank u very little

[greatbxfreak]

JimH,

Pavie Macquin is a modern-style wine that is not overdone and overdimensioned. Top St Emilion but there are many competitors.

David G,

Gentle as a lamb. It has become significantly more elegant and with more finesse in recent vintages.

[Comte Flaneur]

2005 Angelus, RMP note

Truly great stuff, this wine performed at a three-digit level both in the horizontal tasting of 2005s in Baltimore, as well as in Montreal at this mini-vertical. This sensational, opaque, bluish/purple wine offers up notes of vanillin, spring flowers, blueberry and blackberry liqueur, plus a touch of licorice. The wine hits the palate with a thunderous cascade of ripe, rich, concentrated fruit. It is full-bodied, multidimensional and layered. The tannins are beautifully integrated but still present, and the wood, acidity, alcohol, etc., are all beautifully assimilated in this magnificent, majestic vintage of Angelus. It can be drunk now, but it is still an adolescent and that suggests it has at least another 25-35 years of longevity.

100
Robert Parker, Wine Advocate (220), August 2015

“The wine hits the palate with a thunderous cascade of ripe, rich, concentrated fruit” - RMP

Yeeeesh ...That would be a pass for me....thank u very little

No I would run for the hills

[JimHow]

I can’t remember, have we ever come to a conclusion on the question of whether Robert Parker was a net positive of a net negative for Bordeaux? I think I’ll start a poll.

[Comte Flaneur]

To answer that question Jim you would have to ponder the counterfactual as to where would we be without him?

I think a clue lies in what has happened in Burgundy since he came to prominence and where he was banned early on in the piece.

Burgundy is thriving like never before and has never been making better wines…but…as arguably has Bordeaux…and other regions.